For those who agree with the verdict...help me understand.

[pcrum12]

I have felt that quite a bit myself. I've pretty much not bothered to post my opinion any longer because of the type of responses I've received. I'm also bothered by the many inferences to people's stupidity.

I have greatly appreciated all of your posts (in this thread particularly), and I think you have been very articulate about your views and how you read the evidence. I also think you have been very generous and patient.

I gained a lot of insight from one of your most recent posts about GA and his behaviour since the onset of the whole event. Thank you!

Ditto! I've just about given up posting as well. I did just a few minutes ago and expressed my feelings about those posting on the thread that really didn't want to understand at all but only insult. I've looked forward to getting on this thread every day but in the last couple days its just been alot of throwing insults to anything anyone that agrees with the verdict has to say.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

It is possible that the body was moved and maybe even more than once. It doesn't have to be Kronk either.

There is a time when the body could no longer be moved to the result of the status and dispersion found on December 10th. But it could have been moved (especially while still in the canvas bag) in mid-June to early-August.

Well, it would have to been placed there less than 2 months after death.

The very first dump site may not have been the swampy woods, and it could also have been moved from one part of the woods to another. It's even possible that the skull was moved independently of the rest of the remains.

You mean it was removed after complete decomposition? It's possible but that would fall into the wild speculation category. It still would have to had been there some months because of the plants growing through it and the hair. Movement still wouldn't account for the duct tape in any case.

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

Good question that seems to bother some. The hair will stay as described as a 'matt' or clump. It tends to tangle and weave itself into a nest of hair. I am sure you have noticed how a bird nest seems to last and stay together over time well after use. Animals really have no use for hair other than to avoid it while feeding on flesh so to see hair matt in place makes perfect sense to me.

Now, why did tape keep lower jaw in place after all this feeding and decomposition? It did not appear there was any animal assault to the skull. The skul was found in a logical place as left. The tape wrapped around the head, later the skull would act as a sling of sort plus there is not much flesh in thickness on skull area. Not tight fitting as decomposition too place but holding lower jaw in place as debris collected around lower jaw and skull. A kind of cushion or support that helped along with the tape remnants.

When did the skull exit the triple bagging? Was it predecomposition or postdecomposition? If it was post decomposition, then how did the loose tape hold the mandible in place during whatever event caused the skull to exit the triple bags? If it was predecompostion or during the decomposition stage when whatever event caused the skull to exit the triple bags, then the animals would have had a reason to assault the skull which you said none was indicated. Which of RK's several interviews and depositions are we to believe in regards to the duct tape and the skull and the bags, since he basically changed his story each time he told it?

My own opinion is that the duct tape was never placed on Caylee. RK's testimony, coupled with the pictures we were allowed to see, and the other testimony we heard in regard to the duct tape is how I reached that opinion.
I asked the question because I wanted to see if anyone could come up with a logical explanation about how that duct tape could possibly hold the mandible in place.

Thank you for answering.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only

 

[pcrum12]

I did the same thing. I made a few posts as to why I agreed with the verdict, and tried to be quite clear that my posts were my opinion only, in an effort to help the OP understand why I agreed. Of course, I have been posting my minority opinions here for nearly two years, so many may have me on their ignore list LOL, so I didn't get all the responses you have. I admire the way you have handled yourself and stuck to your guns. BTW I pretty much agree with all the posts you have made.
I do find it hard to understand that IF the duct tape was over the mouth and nose, and if the decomposition was done in two weeks, and after decomposition the duct tape was no longer sticky due to decomp fluids, and again this took place within two weeks, then as you say, if the only thing the duct tape was adhering too after two weeks was a hair matt, what was holding the mandible in place during Tropical Storm Faye, and during the dispersement by animals?

Me too TDA. I'm sure I've been put on ignore alot. I, too, don't understand the logic of the mandible unless it was plant growth that actually held it in place. jmo

 

[beccalecca1]

When did the skull exit the triple bagging? Was it predecomposition or postdecomposition? If it was post decomposition, then how did the loose tape hold the mandible in place during whatever event caused the skull to exit the triple bags? If it was predecompostion or during the decomposition stage when whatever event caused the skull to exit the triple bags, then the animals would have had a reason to assault the skull which you said none was indicated. Which of RK's several interviews and depositions are we to believe in regards to the duct tape and the skull and the bags, since he basically changed his story each time he told it?

My own opinion is that the duct tape was never placed on Caylee. RK's testimony, coupled with the pictures we were allowed to see, and the other testimony we heard in regard to the duct tape is how I reached that opinion.
I asked the question because I wanted to see if anyone could come up with a logical explanation about how that duct tape could possibly hold the mandible in place.

Thank you for answering.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only

Thank you, asked the question better then I did

 

[gngr~snap]

I haven't said much about the skull/tape issue, because IMO RK ruined the integrity of the recovery site. I don't care what was found where, after Mr. "I shook the bag 3 times....a skull rolled out" completely undermines the positioning of everything. Physical contamination of a crime scene = unreliable evidence.

I agree! Not just Kronk but the water rising, moving the bag around. The skeleton is reported as fully disarticulated. However the jaw was held "in it's anatomical location" due to the duct tape being stuck in the hair.

IMO this means the duct tape HAD to have been applied to the face when the hair was DRY! Sort of like when a piece of duct tape sticks to itself. It was placed in a manner that indicates it was never meant to be removed.

I won't even go in to what I think about that.

So,basically even though all the soft tissue etc... had decomposed, the hair and the tape acted like a sling for the jaw. or a "net"
Compare it to a mask one would wear when attending a c-section.
Across the front and the ends of the tape "tied up" in the matted hair.
I don't guess RK messed the scene up too much.. sounds like the skull was sotra cocooned.

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

The found position of the skull was rather odd. It was upright on the ground. It couldn't have started out that way. When the skull was still attached to the vertebrae it could not have been positioned upright. The skull would be laying on one of it's sides (l, r, front or back). After the skull detached from the neck it somehow ended up sitting upright.

There was debris material adhering to one side of the skull cavity suggesting that it was laying on its side during the very late stages of decomposition (when there is no longer any brain material left). Then it switches to an upright position. I think that is probably unusual.

I agree the brain residue indicates it was on its left side at first (which I feel is corroborated by the trunk stain). Seeing as it was underwater for some time, it's not unreasonable that it may have shifted from its side to another position from buoyancy and animal movement. I don't know that we should expect it to stay in the exact same position as first laid. Other bones were moved as well by animals. It's also possible Kronk shifted the skull on discovery, but I don't see that it changed anything probative.

I wonder if the plant growth could show whether it was in that position for long, but we haven't seen those photos.

 

[sacrablue]

You know it's interesting, the defense claims that the State created a fantasy plan of nonsense to follow with halph truths. But when I try to understand the pro not guilty people's theories ...they are by far more complex and full of what ifs. I mean you got to start somewhere with logical evidence. I do not care how many times the skull moved around. I don't care if the skull was found 10 feet away from grave. The fact is the body was put there to decompose in a garbage bag wrapped in the child's blanket with duct tape on its head. That's it....done deal....walk away and find out who was last seen with child and if they don't shoot straight with me they are going to jail. Simple very uncomplicated ...no regrets...throw away the key until they want to talk.

 

[Hot Dogs]

Ok but the point was the duct tape held the jaw in place no matter what provoked the final resting place of the skull.

It's more complicated than that. The jaw was not attached to the skull (all connective material was gone). A piece of duct tape was stuck to some of the hair and also the jaw. I think it's odd that some tape was stuck to bone.

It was said during testimony that if you grabbed the skull and lifted it upwards, the jaw would have stayed on the ground. The skull was simply resting atop the jaw. Tape wasn't binding them together.

 

[sacrablue]

It's more complicated than that. The jaw was not attached to the skull (all connective material was gone). A piece of duct tape was stuck to some of the hair and also the jaw. I think it's odd that some tape was stuck to bone.

It was said during testimony that if you grabbed the skull and lifted it upwards, the jaw would have stayed on the ground. The skull was simply resting atop the jaw. Tape wasn't binding them together.

There was duct tape adhering to the bone? What evidence showed this. I never saw this.

 

[Hot Dogs]

I agree the brain residue indicates it was on its left side at first (which I feel is corroborated by the trunk stain). Seeing as it was underwater for some time, it's not unreasonable that it may have shifted from its side to another position from buoyancy and animal movement. I don't know that we should expect it to stay in the exact same position as first laid. Other bones were moved as well by animals. It's also possible Kronk shifted the skull on discovery, but I don't see that it changed anything probative.

I wonder if the plant growth could show whether it was in that position for long, but we haven't seen those photos.

The remaining residue on the left side cannot be accounted-for by laying on the side in the trunk. That would have been very early decomposition when the brain mass still fills the skull cavity. The bit of clinging residue deposition only happens when there is nothing left inside the brain case other than a bit of "dust".

 

[beccalecca1]

It's more complicated than that. The jaw was not attached to the skull (all connective material was gone). A piece of duct tape was stuck to some of the hair and also the jaw. I think it's odd that some tape was stuck to bone.

It was said during testimony that if you grabbed the skull and lifted it upwards, the jaw would have stayed on the ground. The skull was simply resting atop the jaw. Tape wasn't binding them together.

Wow... I completely misinterpreted the testimony. I thought the mandible and skull were still attached when they picked it up. The reference to anatomical position just means that the skull was sitting upright on top of the mandible?

So, that makes it even more cooky. How would the skull have gotten that way, out of the bag, with the mandible still attached?

Did you, or anyone else, read the statement RK gave to police in January, the one where he states "Roy's gotta eat too." Right before he goes into that, he mentions he was out there in November. Why??

 

[Hot Dogs]

There was duct tape adhering to the bone? What evidence showed this. I never saw this.

Yes, tape was stuck to jaw bone. It's in the medical examiner's report (autopsy).

 

[gngr~snap]

I agree the brain residue indicates it was on its left side at first (which I feel is corroborated by the trunk stain). Seeing as it was underwater for some time, it's not unreasonable that it may have shifted from its side to another position from buoyancy and animal movement. I don't know that we should expect it to stay in the exact same position as first laid. Other bones were moved as well by animals. It's also possible Kronk shifted the skull on discovery, but I don't see that it changed anything probative.

I wonder if the plant growth could show whether it was in that position for long, but we haven't seen those photos.

True and TS Faye was 69 days later? (I think) The waters would rise quickly causing the bag to become buoyant air shift would send skull to bottom of bag perhaps quicker than some other bones because the skull would allow water in---if the bag was free floating and not lodged or weighed down externally.
Swampy waters recede slower so I think it would be placed down a little with out too much disruption. It might still have some water left for a wile inside the skull as this would have to evaporate.
I would think it would be affected by plant growth.
Remember the hair was not "washed away" there was still human scent there. Most animals would have left the skull alone and chosen another bone. Or should I say varmints- the ants and other types of flies and bugs wouldn't care.

 

[sacrablue]

Look, who cares if you can pick up the head and the jaw falls off, who cares if the skull was turned, the fact is the tape was put around the child's head and hair. There it is sitting there a loop of duct tape with a wad of human hair stuck to it. Done deal, what on earth is there not to understand? What on earth could that be there for?

 

[gngr~snap]

There was duct tape adhering to the bone? What evidence showed this. I never saw this.

All I see is "duct tape still attached to scalp hairs."


http://www.autopsyfiles.org/reports/Other/anthony, caylee_report.pdf

 

[Hot Dogs]

Wow... I completely misinterpreted the testimony. I thought the mandible and skull were still attached when they picked it up. The reference to anatomical position just means that the skull was sitting upright on top of the mandible?

That is correct.

So, that makes it even more cooky. How would the skull have gotten that way, out of the bag, with the mandible still attached?

Yeah, it's pretty weird.

Did you, or anyone else, read the statement RK gave to police in January, the one where he states "Roy's gotta eat too." Right before he goes into that, he mentions he was out there in November. Why??

Yes, I'm quite familiar with the many things RK has said. In November he had to read the meters at the school (end of Suburban Drive). You have to drive past the swamp to get there. He said he didn't stop.

 

[Hot Dogs]

All I see is "duct tape still attached to scalp hairs."

Stand by...

 

[sacrablue]

Yes, tape was stuck to jaw bone. It's in the medical examiner's report (autopsy).

I think you are wrong. Think about it. How could tape be stuck to the bone? It was never applied to bone...flesh and hair only.

 

[beccalecca1]

That is correct.



Yeah, it's pretty weird.



Yes, I'm quite familiar with the many things RK has said. In November he had to read the meters at the school (end of Suburban Drive). You have to drive past the swamp to get there. He said he didn't stop.

Thank you, I saw that in his statement and he kind of said it casually to LE, and I was like "Wait a minute..."

Makes sense now.