France - Five shot, four dead in French Alps, may have int'l ramifications, Lake Annecy 5 September 2012 #1

[Fluttershy]

Identity of dead cyclist confirmed

The public prosecutor confirms the identity of the dead cyclist as Sylvian Mollier, born in April 1967. He was well known to the mayor and enjoyed cycling, says Maillaud. Mollier had children, he says.

Identity of cyclist confirmed by Guardian

 

[sherlockh]

I'm not getting mob hit or terrorist connections here, if the man were that 'connected' he would have been aware of threats to him and his family and wouldn't just be driving off on a camping holiday into the remote French countryside without taking security precautions. No, I'm getting robbers targeting tourists which apparently is a lucrative 'enterprise' for criminal gangs in that region, I think the father's ethnic origin/profession is just a red herring but one that will be big enough to muddy the 'conspiracy' waters for a time.

Yes, I think that is what the police source in the article linked below also says.

The source also dismissed suggestions the attack may be linked to two attempted car-jackings, describing the massacre as a "very particular modus operandi" in a spot popular with tourists.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...e-shooting-Father-named-as-Saad-Al-Hilli.html

 

[Neurotripsy]

I'm going with assassination or mob hit... I don't think a robber would go for headshots and they wouldn't be as concerned about leaving witnesses. Sounds like the area was deliberately chosen rather than then stumbling onto a drug deal, and it's a lot easier to throw the police off the trail if the hit's carried out while the victims are on holiday.

 

[NancyA]

NancyA.
I think the French police did check for signs of life and it was only after that that they sealed everything off..
There must have been a large amount of blood in the vehicle and the child was under her mothers legs so it may have been very difficult to spot the 4yr old...

My concern remains, it appears, according to this report, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/9524537/France-shooting-Father-named-as-Saad-Al-Hilli.html that the police did not open the doors to the vehicle until the other family told them there were two children with the family. How could they check for vital signs from the occupants of the car if they didn't open the doors??

 

[ScotsPaddy]

Did prosecutor just confirm carjacking at the end of press conference?.Just as people got up to walk out..

 

[Zuckerschnecke]

Couple of you asked earlier about where it was exactly. Here ya go.

They are quite a ways from their campground, were they planning on going hiking (it was kind of late) or do more camping? That other family that was with them must know more. The road seems very deserted but maybe it just looks that way in the winter. Scary stuff.

 

[ScotsPaddy]

NancyA,could they(doc or whom ever) have reached through the broken windows to check for vitals?..
Im only going by what was said earlier on..

 

[graceholl]

This is really bizarre, and horribly tragic for these girls to be orphaned at the end of such a grisly ordeal. What is most odd is the motive. Like others I don't believe this was a pre-meditated assassination. With what little we know now I'm leaning more towards opportunists botching a robbery/carjack, possibly due to being interrupted by the cyclist. But still, why shoot the family dead, leave the young girls alive, and badly beat up the older girl? So many questions. So, so sad.

 

[NancyA]

NancyA,could they(doc or whom ever) have reached through the broken windows to check for vitals?..
Im only going by what was said earlier on..

I don't know, SP, but I do think if they did just reach in through the windows it's a pretty slapdash way of proceeding. I'm just not understanding how protocol or preserving crime scene integrity can trump the possibility of saving a life.

 

[jjenny]

I'm going to stick with my theory that this family was targeted for a specific reason and the children left alive.

If it was race or burglary, imo, the children would have suffered the same fate as their parents and grandma.

:moo:

She wasn't "left alive." She hid. Police didn't even notice her. However killed her family probably didn't either.

 

[graceholl]

She wasn't "left alive." She hid. Police didn't even notice her. However killed her family probably didn't either.

If they were close enough to target the 3 victims in the car directly in the forehead, they probably did notice her. The fact that her sister was beaten but not killed suggests their lives were both intentionally spared, to me.

 

[jjenny]

If they were close enough to target the 3 victims in the car directly in the forehead, they probably did notice her. The fact that her sister was beaten but not killed suggests their lives were both intentionally spared, to me.

Police were close enough yet didn't find this child for 8 hours. Which is mind boggling to me.And the older girl was shot 3 times. Do you seriously think that means her life was intentionally spared?

 

[~n/t~]

If they were close enough to target the 3 victims in the car directly in the forehead, they probably did notice her. The fact that her sister was beaten but not killed suggests their lives were both intentionally spared, to me.

I was going to reply but you said exactly what I was going to say.

There are 2 children. A 4 year old and a 7-8 year old. The 4 year old wasn't hurt. The older child was beaten. It appears her injuries weren't life threatening. Thank God.

 

[jjenny]

I was going to reply but you said exactly what I was going to say.

There are 2 children. A 4 year old and a 7-8 year old. The 4 year old wasn't hurt. The older child was beaten. It appears her injuries weren't life threatening. Thank God.

The older child was shot three times and is in critical condition.

"A girl was also found near the car and remains in critical condition in hospital following the attack having been shot three times and apparently beaten, while another girl of four has been found unharmed in the car."

Read more: http://www.metro.co.uk/news/910921-...n-vehicle-were-shot-in-the-head#ixzz25h8Sgyf4

 

[~n/t~]

The older child was shot three times and is in critical condition.

"A girl was also found near the car and remains in critical condition in hospital following the attack having been shot three times and apparently beaten, while another girl of four has been found unharmed in the car."

Read more: http://www.metro.co.uk/news/910921-...n-vehicle-were-shot-in-the-head#ixzz25h8Sgyf4

It was later revised to beaten........

 

[~n/t~]

This site has some live updates. The 7 (or 8?) year old girl was not shot but beaten and has a fractured skull. She seems to be out of danger now.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/06/french-alps-shooting-live

I think it was a car robbery by a bunch of amateurs who panicked when the cyclist came. There seems to be too many tourists and cyclists there for a drug deal, but still too early to tell I guess.

bump regarding the beaten versus shot

 

[jjenny]

It was later revised to beaten........

I don't think so.
This article is from today. Says she was shot. Now she is a medically induced coma and due to be operated on again. I see nothing to indicate that whoever did that to her intended for her to be left alive.

"Another girl, found shot outside the car, has been transferred to a hospital in the city of Grenoble where she has been placed in a medically-induced coma. She was due to be operated on again."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19506853

 

[ScotsPaddy]

Shooting in the head is a very deliberate,they were not meant to survive...

Now can someone tell me if this road that leads to the car park dead ends at the car park?.
I ask because the cyclist who found the bodies was overtaken by the cyclist shot dead earlier on on the road leading to the car park.Discoverer cyclist then cycles upon the scene further ahead.now if the road deadends at the car park then surely the shooters would have to have travelled back down the road passing Discoverer cyclist?.
Also id flicked to bbc news and the reporter was talking to the prosecutor and asked something about the witness/discoverer cyclist and prosecutor didnt answer question but immediately said that discover cyclist did save the 8yr olds life.twas like he dodged the question,so did discoverer witness see the shooters in their vehicle leaving the scene..
And i know youd think he would be shot but if they passed on a corner or at speed then shooters wouldnt really have time to stop and go after discoverer..

 

[jjenny]

bump regarding the beaten versus shot

guardian link says she was shot.

"• The seven-year-old girl found lying in the road suffered head fractures and was shot in the shoulder in a "violent attack". The public prosecutor, Eric Maillaud, said the girl was induced into a coma after being found but her health was now "improving"."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/06/french-alps-shooting-live

 

[ScotsPaddy]

From what im seeing the 8yr old was shot in shoulder and beaten on the head,thats why i think shed be put into a coma..