France - Five shot, four dead in French Alps, may have int'l ramifications, Lake Annecy 5 September 2012 #1

[Swamp Fox Trot]

O/T but Canada just kicked all Iranian Diplomats out of the country today.

Not off-topic at all---unlike most people on this board, Canada knows Iran is carrying out political assassinations.

 

[laurauk1]

The latest article on the Daily Mail website claims that the victim's brother contacted the police pretty sharp ish after he heard the news about a shooting in France and denies any involvement. It also has now been claimed that a white car and a green car (although could be one and the same and colours getting confused), as well as a motorbike.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-Al-Hillis-brother-Zaid-inheritance-row.html

 

[laurauk1]

Not off-topic at all---unlike most people on this board, Canada knows Iran is carrying out political assassinations.

If that's aimed at me, I'm not saying Iran aren't carrying out or haven't carried out assassinations in the past.

Can I also apologise if my last message sounded in anyway argumentative. I didn't mean it all at all. Just read it back and it possibly sounded that way.

 

[writer7]

I really did get Iran in my head somehow for this family! I don't get them confused at all, actually, but I had it stuck in my head that they were Iranian somehow. Sorry! And thank you for pointing it out quickly.

Does anyone know if the Iraqi government is bad about assassinations? It was the Iranian government I was thinking of, so that could change my mind on what may have happened.

Still, the French called in some heavy hitters very quickly. They suspect[ed?] something at high levels, apparently.

 

[laurauk1]

I really did get Iran in my head somehow for this family! I don't get them confused at all, actually, but I had it stuck in my head that they were Iranian somehow. Sorry! And thank you for pointing it out quickly.

Does anyone know if the Iraqi government is bad about assassinations? It was the Iranian government I was thinking of, so that could change my mind on what may have happened.

Still, the French called in some heavy hitters very quickly. They suspect[ed?] something at high levels, apparently.

That's ok - at first I thought it was me who had got it confused and had to go back and check that they weren't Iranian.

I'm not sure about Iraq. I know very little about the regime since Saddam and how that works. I mentioned in an earlier post about something happening near where my parents lived where someone tried to execute this guy and it was thought it was due to his links in Iraq. This was many, many years ago though.

I would imagine (and this is speculation) that since it is a relatively short period of time (in the grand scheme of things) since Sadam lost power and a new government was formed, that there could be all sorts of political parties/groups within the country who would like to see themselves in power. So even if the government wouldn't act in this way, there may be other people who would.

 

[Lola]

Here's France24 the english language TV's take on the story
French police head to Britain to probe Alps murders

 

[ScotsPaddy]

It seems like something substantial like a truck blocked the road and made the BMW back up.

Then someone swooped in really fast and did the shooting; a motorcycle would allow a shooter to get close fast.

I wonder if they resorted to pistol-whipping because they ran out of ammunition. If the gunman was on a motorcycle maybe he only brought the one gun.

Witness cyclist says he saw a green 4x4 and a motorbike.

As you said Swamp Fox Trot and from the aerial picture it does look like the family car was blocked and they reversed back to do a u-turn,at this point if the 4x4 was involved it then stayed in front of family car blocking it from moving forward,thats why i think the shooter(biker?) had time to move around the car and take headshots..

On the news report at the incident scene the hole left by the left rear tyre spinning when car reversed into layby had been filled in with light coloured stones so was it difficult to see.

Im still confused as to why the older child was outside the car?.
Also from the news when talking about her head injuries they worded it in a way that made it sound as though she was hit with a blunt object and not with the criminals car...

 

[ScotsPaddy]

Ok, so gunshots were heard. No silencers then. One shooter would mean he walked around the car since the windows had all bullet holes in them during which the adults would just sit still in the car waiting to be shot in the head? I don't know but I hope I would try to get away in such a situation. Maybe that is what the girl did though.

That daily mail article said the cyclist saw a car and a motorbike. That is interesting.

Yesterday the prosecutor said it was multiple shots from AROUND the vehicle and i took it from that that a shooter had indeed walked around the car taking shots.

 

[ScotsPaddy]

Lol what else is the victims brother going to say to police apart from say there was no feud..

 

[Swamp Fox Trot]

Yesterday the prosecutor said it was multiple shots from AROUND the vehicle and i took it from that that a shooter had indeed walked around the car taking shots.

Or shooters, one on the motorcycle and maybe one or more from the truck.

 

[ScotsPaddy]

Or shooters, one on the motorcycle and maybe one or more from the truck.

Yeah i totally agree SFT

 

[wfgodot]

French Alps shootings: detectives head to UK (Guardian)

---
In the presence of a French child psychologist the orphaned girl, who spent eight hours cowering in terror under the body of her mother before being discovered, was shown photographs of her parents from passports found in the car where they were killed.

Eric Maillaud, the public prosecutor, said she had responded in "childish language" saying: "Yes, that's my mummy. And that's my daddy".
---
Shortly after she was found, French investigators said the best place for the orphaned girl was "back with what's left of her family", and said they had taken a softly-softly approach to questioning her. But British experts expressed shock and surprise that she has not been reunited with a relative or family friend already.

Maillaud said the French authorities hoped to hand the child over to relatives said to be waiting to fly to France to collect the child, "as soon as possible".
---

more at the link

 

[ScotsPaddy]

French Alps shootings: detectives head to UK (Guardian)

more at the link

Was something not said earlier that the little girl wasnt familiar with the 3rd person in the vehicle?..

Now this is nippin my head.The shooter/s MUST have known the children were in the car because the family must have at somepoint been seen leaving the campsite by either a spotter or the shooter/s.
There would have to have been confirmation that the family was at the site for a start.
Then im almost sure the family was watched as they left the campsite and at the very least followed(the white car maybe?),it wasnt just luck that the murderer/s found the family on that quiet road and at that point..

Also the second family from the campsite,would they have been told by our murdered family of their destination that day?..

 

[ScotsPaddy]

Id really like an overhead graphic showing the direction of travel of all the vehicles involved..
Id also like to know locations of where the witness/es saw the white car and direction of travel..
Where did the witness cyclist see the green 4x4 and the bike?,did it pass him on the way up the hill?,did he see it leaving the scene or further up from the scene?..

 

[ScotsPaddy]

BUT,if they knew the girls were in the car why didnt they finish of the younger one(im presuming they thought the older child was dead),or did they look in the car and just not see her?.
From what the girl told the police she dived straight between her mums legs as soon as things started happening so that may be why?.

 

[writer7]

Maybe the car was followed via a bug, not by physical observation? Surely if it were a targeted attack the attackers knew how many children the couple had.

It's also possible the little girl just wasn't ever visible, I guess.



It's such a lovely region, with the most charming people! The sweetest older couple ran a pension I stayed at many years ago. The people there must be horrified.

 

[sherlockh]

The number of shots changed yet again. Now they say the adults in the car were each shot at least 3 times, and there were 25 bullet cartridges. The little girl didn't see anything. This could mean it all went very fast. No fighting or threatening before the shooting maybe. Hopefully the other girl will make it. I am not expecting she will remember much after such a blow in the head. Amnesia is common after such head trauma. More important is that she will make a full recovery.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/fre...ar-old-didn-t-see-family-s-assassin-1-2512881

 

[Snoopster]

Id really like an overhead graphic showing the direction of travel of all the vehicles involved..
Id also like to know locations of where the witness/es saw the white car and direction of travel..
Where did the witness cyclist see the green 4x4 and the bike?,did it pass him on the way up the hill?,did he see it leaving the scene or further up from the scene?..

Yes, that would be helpful, wouldn't it?

When did the witness cyclist see the victim cyclist pass him? It must have been quite a distance (time-wise) before arriving upon the crime scene. He didn't hear any shots and the victim cyclist was already dead.

How well-travelled was that route? Why that spot? Who was heading in which direction?

If the family was targeted, then I presume they were followed (unless the car was bugged). Or, was a rendezvous of some sort set up in advance? Were the victim cyclist and al-hilli meeting? Was the family running from some danger?

Lots of questions. The answers may not be for public consumption.

 

[~n/t~]

The number of shots changed yet again. Now they say the adults in the car were each shot at least 3 times, and there were 25 bullet cartridges. The little girl didn't see anything. This could mean it all went very fast. No fighting or threatening before the shooting maybe. Hopefully the other girl will make it. I am not expecting she will remember much after such a blow in the head. Amnesia is common after such head trauma. More important is that she will make a full recovery.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/fre...ar-old-didn-t-see-family-s-assassin-1-2512881

Thanks for the link.

So the 7 year old was in a car seat but the 4 year old was not? Something is just not adding up. Did they grab the child out of her car seat to beat her up and then locked the doors to the car and started shooting at the adults? I'm really afraid for the 4 year old going back to family and I hope they investigate who she will be with before handing her over.

He said police are waiting to speak to Zainab, who was put into a coma to help her recover from a fractured skull suffered in a severe beating during the incident. She was also shot in the shoulder.

The girl had been sitting in a child seat in the front of the car.

 

[Confusion]

Thanks for the link.

So the 7 year old was in a car seat but the 4 year old was not? Something is just not adding up. Did they grab the child out of her car seat to beat her up and then locked the doors to the car and started shooting at the adults? I'm really afraid for the 4 year old going back to family and I hope they investigate who she will be with before handing her over.

It is possible that the 7 year-old was shot from the driver's side and opened the door to try running away after she was hit. The doors were probably already locked before the shooting started, but could still be opened from inside.