"G (Guilty)" vs "NG (Not Guilty)" Where do you stand? #3

[Searchfortruth]

Yes I think that most mothers wrap duct tape around their childrens faces after they die in a tragic accident...some call 911 though.

 

[marspiter]

I would also like to ad that the reason Casey and her defense didn't claim accident is because LE would have required her to take them to the body for a plea deal to be arranged. Casey knew exactly what that would mean when LE saw the body.

 

[Searchfortruth]

I would also like to ad that the reason Casey and her defense didn't claim accident is because LE would have required her to take them to the body for a plea deal to be arranged. Casey knew exactly what that would mean when LE saw the body.

Exactly, how would she explain that pesky duct tape ?

 

[Searchfortruth]

Where did Wudge go ? We were right in the middle of answering his latest quesstion and he is gone ! Let me guess someone else enters into the mix about now to keep the fire lit ?

 

[marspiter]

Exactly, how would she explain that pesky duct tape ?

Yeah that's kind of the fly in the ointment...that and the actual fly's....coffin fly's.

 

[cecybeans]

Who signs their name like that? Does the accused with the school girl writing who claims to employ a Nanny also think she's a Doctor?

I think it's the signature of a school girl who is still writing her name and her boyfriend's last name a zillion times on notebook paper to see what it looks like if they got married.

Or the signature of someone who sat in class all day and practiced signing her name all fancy for when she would be famous and sign thousands of rushed autographs.

 

[Mamabear1963]

For me:

1. 31 days
2. Duct Tape
3. Double bagged
4. Family dynamics
5. Self centered thought process (Why don't you think about MEEEE)

this isn't a professional list, just a list of things that lead me to believe KC is guilty. I too have raised a few children, mom to 14, 8 boys 6 girls, 5 18 yrs and up...KC's stories don't line up...never have and never will.

I know...more emotional than not...but that is where I am...KC is guilty:snooty:

 

[darnudes]

Notthatsmart, you crack me up. :floorlaugh: I can see you now, gazing thoughtfully at your monitor, drumming your fingers, trying to decide what you can say next to really rile everybody up. And it works every time! :floorlaugh:

I, however, have raised 7 grown children, and I know how to tell when someone is yanking my chain. LOL Furthermore, although your avi is a nice touch, it's also a dead giveaway that you want to create an illusion of stupidity. People who truly believe they aren't smart do not announce it to the world; they do the opposite. But what really gives you away is that you tend to use a very nice, intelligent turn of phrase right in the midst of an otherwise utterly incongruous statement.

I have to hand it to you, though--there are a lot of extremely smart people here and you're smart enough to keep them running around in the same circles, banging their heads against the walls, trying to understand you and help you understand them. LOL The truth is, you have such a genius for it, I almost hate to out you. :blowkiss:

If I've totally, completely, thoroughly guessed wrong about you, then all I can say is, "Well, nuts." And, "Okay, you vote Not Guilty. I get it. I respect it. No further explanation necessary, no argument forthcoming."

Regards--

Thank you for this post.

I would also like to add that posters trying to bait other posters into arguments (in the hope of getting them banned or on time outs ?) is one thing I detest about forums.

It is quite plain to see what is happening here as it has been going on for some time.

I'm sure Tricia and our hard working mods are aware of it.

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

I have a question for anyone that feels that the evidence presented so far does not prove Casey guilty. Not being snarky or anything either, just trying to understand that point of view. If the evidence proves not guilty to you as far as Casey is concerned, does it point to someone else being guilty? In other words, does the evidence prove that a crime happened and that you feel it points to a specific individual? Also, could you please explain a little bit so that I can understand how you came to your conclusion? Thank you in advance.

As for the evidence we know of, in my opinion the state has yet to prove Casey is guilty of premeditated murder. In the evidence we know of, the FBI reported that the duct tape on the remains was dissimilar to the duct tape on the gas can. DNA from an FBI tech inadvertantly ended up on one of the most important pieces of evidence in this case. While I admire the FBI for admitting this error, and I do believe it was unintentional, it still bothers me that a mistake was made on such a critical piece of evidence. In my interpretation of the entomologists report, I think he proved the LE theory was possible. In my opinion, however, he also left the door open that, it is also possible Caylee's remains were never in the trunk. Also, in my opinion, the fact that the white trash bag was in or near a dumpster for several hours, leaves a reasonable possibility that the white trash bag could have been contaminated by insects from within and around the dumpster, that could give false results to the entomology report. Again in my opinion, Roy Kronks inconsistant testimony to LE, the fact that no saw what Roy Kronk saw prior to Dec 11th, coupled with my interpretation of the experts reports, that it is possible (although unlikely) that the remains may have been placed in the woods after Aug 15th. In my opinion, the smell in the trunk may have been from the white trash bag. Many have the opinion it was the smell of death cuased from Caylee's remains being in the trunk for 2.6 days, we are all
entitled to our opinions, mine just happens to be it was the smell of the trash bag in an enclosed trunk under the hot Florida sun for over two weeks.. The computer forensics, the cell phone pings, and the chloroform evidence all seem to prove LE's theories in these areas may be possible. However, they do not rule out other reasonable possibilities. Even if Casey lied to LE, and showed very inappropriate behavior for someone whose child was missing for 31 days, these two things do not prove she murdered her child. There are many 22 year old girls who are liars, self-serving, party animals, that may be promiscuous, and at odds with their parents. None of this can be translated into that 22 year old being a murderer, even if her daughter was missing for 31 days and she didn't report it. The defense claims Casey has a complelling reason for the 31 days. Many people choose to no acknowledge this at the moment since it is not in evidence. I choose to think there may yet be a compelling reason for this behavior to be introduced by the defense. I do not equate writing bad checks, or using someone else's credit cards to being a murderer. The wild goose chase to Universal, the Zanny story, the sawgrass apartments, all show Casey may well be a liar. None of these things prove she is a murderer. Many believe LE's theories are correct and believe the way they interpret the evidence we know of in totality, this gives them the opinion of GUILTY. I understand this, and each of us are entitled to an opinion. My opinion is Casey cannot be found GUILTY of premeditated murder based on the evidence we know of. I base this opinion on the totality of my interpretation of the evidence we know of.

 

[QB.]

Thank you for this post.

I would also like to add that posters trying to bait other posters into arguments (in the hope of getting them banned or on time outs ?) is one thing I detest about forums.

It is quite plain to see what is happening here as it has been going on for some time.

I'm sure Tricia and our hard working mods are aware of it.

:clap:

 

[darnudes]

The evidence that we know of does not rule out Caylee dying from an accident. Hence, it is not true that Caylee necessarily died at the hands of anyone. Moreover, the evidence in the public domain is insufficient to convict anyone of murder.

I swing back and forth between accident and murder. I think I have to agree with you, that with all we know so far, there may not be enough to convince a jury. With that in mind however, I believe that we have not seen all the evidence and the State will be able to secure a conviction with what is unknown to us at this stage.

 

[Wudge]

What evidence supports an accident?

Did Caylee fall in the garage and land on a roll of duct tape face first? Then in her panic of having duct tape on her face trip backward and land in a plastic trash bag....twice. While thrashing around in the trash bag she rolled into the laundry bag. Followed by a back flip with a half gainer into the trunk where she tragically died. All in jest of course but really an accident?

I'd find aliens more believable then an accident theory at this point in the case.

Also the defense at no point has claimed it was an accident. The only theory the defense has alluded to is a SODDI defense. The first DP lawyer on the case suggested going the accident route and was shot down from what I recall. The defense has also claimed Casey's innocence and will have to show the evidence in February. Yet they have said nothing, not one thing about an accident.

Even LP with his pool theory didn't get the defense jumping on the accident band wagon.

I will agree however that early on in this case that Casey could have got out with a slap on the wrist compared to what shes looking at if she just claimed accident from the very begging. That didn't happen however.

The cause of death was not determined. Thus, accident remains a clear option.

 

[Mendara]

The evidence that we know of does not rule out Caylee dying from an accident. Hence, it is not true that Caylee necessarily died at the hands of anyone. Moreover, the evidence in the public domain is insufficient to convict anyone of murder.

Her mother said there was no accident. If you choose to believe what KC says then you have to believe her when she says there was no accident.

The evidence show's steps taken to cover up the death of a child. The evidence shows the last person to have Caylee in her possesion was the mother, who had the opportunity and means to kill her. The evidence shows that the last person to be seen in the company of Caylee was KC and that person's alibi and story as to what happened to the child is a lie. the evidence shows that the last person to have Caylee also had evidence in their car of a dead body and that this car at the admission of KC was dumped and abandoned.

The evidence shows several videos, photos and witnesses who spent over 24 hours with KC over several days and did not see or hear Caylee when she was to be in the possesion of the mother.

The evidence is clear that the child was murdered.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Yes, but I would have done it differently. I would be nice about it. I would give her time to answer each and every question. I understand Casey may have had some information that could have helped. It it so sad that they blew it when they started interrogating her in that fashion. Huge mistake on their part. You can ask tough questions in a kind manner.

Are you sure you listened to the same interview that I did? Are you suggesting that LE should have booked a table at the Ritz prior to conducting their line of questioning? I'm not following you and disagree with your view regarding the treatment that KC received from LE.

By the way, have you watched the movie "slumdogmillionaire" per chance?
Therein you can find examples of unkind interrogation practices.

 

[Leila]

And I will say with all that being said, they lost Casey at that point. I don't think they should use that tactic in that situation. It was a bad decision on their part and that makes me question their ability to find the truth. These are some of the reasons I believe she is NG.

They never had Casey. From the very beginning of police involvement, when the 911 operator asked Cindy to put Casey on the phone, Casey only reluctantly took the phone. She had just told her mother a whopping lie about Zanny the nanny kidnapping Caylee and now she was going to have to repeat that lie to the police and they were going to ask her questions. Casey had to elaborate on the initial lie she had told her mother, and concoct a story, and she had very little time to do it. Casey relied on the things she was familiar with - Sawgrass Apartments where friends lived. That would become the setting for the kidnapping. Casey concocted names of non-existent friends by drawing on names she was familiar with - names of people she knew in high school, and Juliet Lewis is the name of an actress.

Once police started questioning Casey about the details of her story, it all fell apart, exposed as an elaborate lie. They never had Casey. She was put on the spot to come up with an explanation, and when she was backed into a corner because her lies were exposed, she quit talking.

 

[thedeviledadvocate]

I swing back and forth between accident and murder. I think I have to agree with you, that with all we know so far, there may not be enough to convince a jury. With that in mind however, I believe that we have not seen all the evidence and the State will be able to secure a conviction with what is unknown to us at this stage.

I agree with you on all points, except, I'm not certain the state will be able to secure a conviction with what is unknown to us at this stage. In my opinion, if the state had anything more convincing than what is already showing they would have put it out there.

 

[marspiter]

As for the evidence we know of, in my opinion the state has yet to prove Casey is guilty of premeditated murder. In the evidence we know of, the FBI reported that the duct tape on the remains was dissimilar to the duct tape on the gas can. DNA from an FBI tech inadvertantly ended up on one of the most important pieces of evidence in this case. While I admire the FBI for admitting this error, and I do believe it was unintentional, it still bothers me that a mistake was made on such a critical piece of evidence. In my interpretation of the entomologists report, I think he proved the LE theory was possible. In my opinion, however, he also left the door open that, it is also possible Caylee's remains were never in the trunk. Also, in my opinion, the fact that the white trash bag was in or near a dumpster for several hours, leaves a reasonable possibility that the white trash bag could have been contaminated by insects from within and around the dumpster, that could give false results to the entomology report. Again in my opinion, Roy Kronks inconsistant testimony to LE, the fact that no saw what Roy Kronk saw prior to Dec 11th, coupled with my interpretation of the experts reports, that it is possible (although unlikely) that the remains may have been placed in the woods after Aug 15th. In my opinion, the smell in the trunk may have been from the white trash bag. Many have the opinion it was the smell of death cuased from Caylee's remains being in the trunk for 2.6 days, we are all
entitled to our opinions, mine just happens to be it was the smell of the trash bag in an enclosed trunk under the hot Florida sun for over two weeks.. The computer forensics, the cell phone pings, and the chloroform evidence all seem to prove LE's theories in these areas may be possible. However, they do not rule out other reasonable possibilities. Even if Casey lied to LE, and showed very inappropriate behavior for someone whose child was missing for 31 days, these two things do not prove she murdered her child. There are many 22 year old girls who are liars, self-serving, party animals, that may be promiscuous, and at odds with their parents. None of this can be translated into that 22 year old being a murderer, even if her daughter was missing for 31 days and she didn't report it. The defense claims Casey has a complelling reason for the 31 days. Many people choose to no acknowledge this at the moment since it is not in evidence. I choose to think there may yet be a compelling reason for this behavior to be introduced by the defense. I do not equate writing bad checks, or using someone else's credit cards to being a murderer. The wild goose chase to Universal, the Zanny story, the sawgrass apartments, all show Casey may well be a liar. None of these things prove she is a murderer. Many believe LE's theories are correct and believe the way they interpret the evidence we know of in totality, this gives them the opinion of GUILTY. I understand this, and each of us are entitled to an opinion. My opinion is Casey cannot be found GUILTY of premeditated murder based on the evidence we know of. I base this opinion on the totality of my interpretation of the evidence we know of.

I respect this opinion although I can't say I agree. There are a couple things missing such as the cadaver dog hits on the trunk. The air sample tests conducted on the trunk. The hair evidence found inside the trunk. I personally think it's pretty well established based on the evidence that there was a body in the trunk of Casey's car, despite cleaning efforts made on the car.

The compelling evidence the defense has...well it has yet to surface. They had one chance and all they said was that they determined Casey's "innocence" (they didn't say not guilty) based on their interpretation of the States evidence not that they actually had any of their own. The SA has called their bluff though and they are required to present said evidence in February. Seriously if the defense had exonerating evidence that proved Casey undeniably innocent do you really think she would allow herself to sit in jail for two years?

There is one piece of evidence I wish the state had however. That is the pants found in the car that Cindy washed. I feel those pants were washed thoroughly for a reason. That evidence sadly has been ruined.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I can't say anything about signatures. With mine the only thing you can read is the first letter of my First name, My middle initial, and the first letter of my last name. The rest is basically just a squiggly line. Like this.

Xsquiggle X Xsquiggle

It would be interesting to see some earlier examples of Casey's signature. When I sign my name, you can actually read it.

 

[marspiter]

The cause of death was not determined. Thus, accident remains a clear option.

Then someone needs to email this to the defense because they sure haven't chosen to go that route.

That and with Casey's testimony....you know the whole thing about anything you say can and will be used against you.

Yeah that kinda puts a damper on the whole accident theory too in my opinion. You can't really claim SODDI then turn around and claim accident.

 

[cecybeans]

It would be interesting to see some earlier examples of Casey's signature. When I sign my name, you can actually read it.

Well, my signature is pretty illegible, half printing - half cursive. But at least it matches the rest of my handwriting, which my mom calls hieroglyphics. And it's been pretty much the same since grade school.