GA - Female circumcision in Atlanta

[2luvmy]

I am having a little trouble with this story though.

How come the mom didn't notice for so long? They are divorced. Since the mom didn't notice for so long, how can it be proven that the dad did it? Apparently relatives from the "old country" have been there to visit and it could have been done then.

For some reason I get the feeling this is more about spite than anything. I just can't believe this mom didn't notice. I mean honestly, until my kids started bathing and wiping themselves, I would think I would have noticed a change in their appearance in their nether regions.

 

[2sisters]

I am having a little trouble with this story though.

How come the mom didn't notice for so long? They are divorced. Since the mom didn't notice for so long, how can it be proven that the dad did it? Apparently relatives from the "old country" have been there to visit and it could have been done then.

For some reason I get the feeling this is more about spite than anything. I just can't believe this mom didn't notice. I mean honestly, until my kids started bathing and wiping themselves, I would think I would have noticed a change in their appearance in their nether regions.

they are now divorced and the child is 7 I think. I think the wife did this to spite him. Hs ehad to have known. Anyone with a daughter knows their gential area well, you have to clean them thoroughly down there during bathing and diaper changes to get all of the feces and whatnot from it.

 

[SewingDeb]

I am having a little trouble with this story though.

How come the mom didn't notice for so long? They are divorced. Since the mom didn't notice for so long, how can it be proven that the dad did it? Apparently relatives from the "old country" have been there to visit and it could have been done then.

For some reason I get the feeling this is more about spite than anything. I just can't believe this mom didn't notice. I mean honestly, until my kids started bathing and wiping themselves, I would think I would have noticed a change in their appearance in their nether regions.

The not knowing for a year bothers me too. Either she's lying or she never wiped her or bathed her or even spent time with her. The child had to be in pain and the mutilation had to be obvious. They don't just cut a little foreskin off.

I hope this is not a case of the mother getting revenge on the ex. If he did do it and she knew right away she should have taken the child to the doctor and called authorities right away.

 

[CyberLaw]

What I would think, is that he did this, the Mother knew, but could not say anything because of "cultural" pressure, his relatives etc.

The women could be risking her life is she spoke up.

So she "saved" it for the right time, then held him accountable and responsible for his actions.

Also the chances that this man is "nice" to the girl and her mother I feel are slim. The Mother may have been very scared to speak up before now and could do nothing about it.

But thank goodness, he will not visit his daughter, have no conduct with her, not arrange a marriage on her behalf, kill her in an Honor killing, in essence he is no longer a danger to her.

But again what really gets me, he still does not feel that what he did was wrong and that "it is soooo unfair" to get 10 years. He is sooooo hard done by.

By the way: He arranged to spend 5 days alone with the child, but then claimed that "there was no way" that I was off work for 5 days, and alone with the child. But when "he produced" time cards, his boss said those are not even the type that the business uses, so there goes his "defence".

Also his "defence" expert psychologist is "under suspension" and is under investigation for "questionable" evidence and was discredited quite quickly.

This is a "cultural" torture by men, to keep their "daughters" pure until marriage, not to be "dishonor" upon the family, to "ensure" to the grooms family that the "daughter" is pure before marriage, if this did not happen, then of course the girl is loose, even if she still is a virgin.

This ensure that she will never "enjoy" a sex life with her husband, it will be painful and to remind her who is boss.

So again, I have no doubt, that when the girl "had nightmare" screaming No Daddy, No, and when she said that Daddy cut me on my private parts with scissors, a little girl just is very credible.

I just wish he got more then 10 years.............this little girl will suffer for the rest of her life, both physically and emotionally.

 

[2luvmy]

Cyber, I think it is horrible, but I just can't see how the mother could say she didn't know. I understand that the in the culture women are 2nd rate, therefore sheprobably had no say in the matter, but why not just admit that?

Oh well, what is important, is that the child will no longer have to be around this father and hopefully she and her mother will now be able to enjoy the freedom this country allows women.

 

[CyberLaw]

It does not matter if she knew about it then or now, she had to "wait" for the right time. This also is a custody issue, this will ensure that this is "fresh" in the minds of the Judges who will grant her custody.

So if it happened at 2 and he is in jail at 7. It will not nor ever change the fact, that it was done. But if she was two, and he was put in jail, then he would be out when she is 12. But now he will be out when she is almost grown up and he can do no further harm to her.

Sometimes you have to wait for the right timing of things to take full advantage of it for your own benefit and see how the timing will help you.

By the way: Remember the Mom had this done, and probably every other women that she has known or seen. She may not have even noticed that her daughter is "different" because to her it is normal as she was butchered as a child and has not seen any "child" or female not butchered.

We as women have never been butchered, but if all we have seen or know is women who are butchered, then to us it may be normal. Because we know nothing different. Even if you brought this child to a Doctor who "is from that culture" where girls are butchered, he would not say anything again because it is a "culturally" normal thing.

A child brought to a North American Doctor who is butchered, may have asked: What happened to her....and the Mom says: What do you mean. She is like me. The Doctor says: She is not like me, or any other North American Child.. That is why the Mother "may not have known".

Just like a child that is abused by Dad. They don't talk about it with their friends, school, family, and in that aspect, they don't know anything different then what they have experienced.

Then one day: She says to a friend, does your Dad, beat you, the girls says no, that is not right, and tells her Mom who phones the cops. The girl just did not "know" anything different then what he was conditioned for and knew as a part of her life. Only when others say: We do not do that in this society, in this country, to our kids does the child finally "learn" that this is not normal, because again that is all she has known.

So she can say: I did not know........

 

[2luvmy]

Cyber, the parents are already divorced and the mother has had full custody.

 

[Details]

It is only my opinion but i believe we shouldnt say things like this. Everyone in the world is allowed to have thier own beliefs. Dont get me wrong I think what he done is cruel, but remember in his country this is what he knows. and from what i have read they just do it and no one talks about it as in why or how. Again I want to make it clear that i am in no way defending him, I just didnt think this statment was called for.

I can't agree at all. Beliefs can be right and wrong, and this one is wrong. Honor killings and honor rapes are wrong, beating men who don't wear a beard is wrong - period. I don't buy the cultural defense for things that are clearly wrong.

What age a girl is ready for marriage, what foods to eat or not eat, how to pick a husband - I'm more open to some of those - but mutilating children, killing people, raping women - I'm not open to that at all. Cultural beliefs can be wrong - we once had a cultural belief that blacks were inferior - and it was wrong.

 

[Details]

Female circumcision is a complete misnomer - if the same thing was done to a man, the same bits were removed, it'd be called male nuetering. Whether male circumcision is good or bad, right or wrong, it's not the same thing as what we are discussing here. It's far less harmful, it's done for reasons that are supposed to be about cleanliness or religion, it allows sexual pleasure. When a little girl is mutilated this way, it's done for reasons that are about control of her sexuality, it doesn't allow sexual pleasure, and it's extremely harmful - both as far as pain, and as far as medical problems. Even were it done as carefully as male circumcision is, there's just no comparison.



While I don't think any cultural/religious defense is good enough - even the convicted father says this is not a religious practice, and is something that is just what the uneducated in villiages do - in the cities, they don't. Doesn't sound like a revered cultural/religious practice to me.

 

[CyberLaw]

O.K. I stand corrected, I thought they were in the "midst" of a Divorce, not that they had already Divorced.

But again, what is normal to one, is not normal to others.

 

[Karole28]

From article:
"Khalid (Adem) is innocent! The fact that his little daughter is circumcized does not prove his guilt.


Article

Picture

 

[southcitymom]

From article:
"Khalid (Adem) is innocent! The fact that his little daughter is circumcized does not prove his guilt.


Article

Picture

I'll take the opinion of the jury who heard the facts in this case. From everything I read, the evidence supported their verdict.

 

[Karole28]

I'll take the opinion of the jury who heard the facts in this case. From everything I read, the evidence supported their verdict.

Me too.

 

[kidzndogznme]

I have very strong beliefs on circumcision of either gender but I won't go into that here. I have, however, done extensive research on men who were circumcised as infants and who have undergone self stretching of the foreskin as adults. There are varying success rates with the stretching but some men can cover the entire head again. Obviously, there is no way to stretch a labia or clitoris that have been chopped off but does anyone know if there is any medical reconstructive procedure that would at least free this child from pain? She probably will never have a functional clitoris again, barring transplant progress, but might she at least have normal functioning (as in urination, childbirth and normal openings to her orifices) through surgery??? Anyone know?

 

[kidzndogznme]

I partially answered my own question. In this article http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1264/is_n11_v26/ai_18023806 a victim of female mutilation states that she visited an OB in London who specializes in reconstructive surgery of mutilated women. However, the thought of being cut again was horrifying and she left his office.

 

[southcitymom]

I partially answered my own question. In this article http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1264/is_n11_v26/ai_18023806 a victim of female mutilation states that she visited an OB in London who specializes in reconstructive surgery of mutilated women. However, the thought of being cut again was horrifying and she left his office.

While I imagine that one would be able to reconstruct the area cosmetically, I don't believe a you can re-create a clitoris. Once that's gone, it seems to me that it's gone.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I don't see a lot of women in that picture supporting this barbaric practice. I wonder why.

They aren't supporting the practice. They are claiming he is flat out innocent and didn't do it.

Just so you know.... the procedure is usually caried out by the women, NOT the men.

 

[southcitymom]

They aren't supporting the practice. They are claiming he is flat out innocent and didn't do it.

Just so you know.... the procedure is usually caried out by the women, NOT the men.

Interesting.

 

[SewingDeb]

Female circumcision is a complete misnomer - if the same thing was done to a man, the same bits were removed, it'd be called male nuetering. Whether male circumcision is good or bad, right or wrong, it's not the same thing as what we are discussing here. It's far less harmful, it's done for reasons that are supposed to be about cleanliness or religion, it allows sexual pleasure. When a little girl is mutilated this way, it's done for reasons that are about control of her sexuality, it doesn't allow sexual pleasure, and it's extremely harmful - both as far as pain, and as far as medical problems. Even were it done as carefully as male circumcision is, there's just no comparison.



While I don't think any cultural/religious defense is good enough - even the convicted father says this is not a religious practice, and is something that is just what the uneducated in villiages do - in the cities, they don't. Doesn't sound like a revered cultural/religious practice to me.

I quoted you because I think you are so right and this should be repeated. It's not just a little skin clipped off...this is mutilation.

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

I don't know if this needs a new thread, because this is in Detroit.
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne.../doctor-charged-genital-mutilation/100416734/

Shouldn't the parents be arrested as well?

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk