GA GA - Mary Shotwell Little, 25, Atlanta, 14 Oct 1965

[London]

I've just read all the pages of this case after seeing it highlighted, some excellent & interesting sleuthing. I absolutely agree with the sentiment expressed a few pages back that it would be fascinating to hear the thoughts of a criminal profiler.
It's frustrating everytime when reading about these dated cases that DNA could not be used as it is today, I just find I have to hold hope that even as time passes people may still come forward with information. I'm so pleased people are still so interested to look into & remember these cases - I hope one day this and the case of Diane are solved

 

[liz b.]

This article states that although they were married for a mere 6 weeks, the Little's were actually separated at the time Mary disappeared. I had not heard that before. Interesting.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=NjsgAAAAIBAJ&sjid=9WUEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6025,4654190&dq=sandra+green&hl=en


Also Interesting is Mr. Little's determining that there was 41 miles on the odometer unaccounted for. That plus the "roses" (I read it mentioned that she did not tell her husband about the roses), makes me think Mr. Little was suspicious of her stepping out on him... I wonder if he suspected she was seeing a fellow banker...?

Perhaps his being out of town was a convenient alibi... all IMO of course.

Roy Little was at a training conference for bank examiners when Mary vanished. He was about 70 miles away. His whereabouts were verified. I believe that the report about them being separated was inaccurate, I read it someplace. He knew the exact amount of miles on their car because his job paid for his mileage, and that car was their only vehicle. The roses came when he was out of town.

One of the detectives on the case found Mary's husband's behavior to be strange.Apparently he showed little or no surprise or shock when he was shown the blood stained interior of the car. He refused a poly, and has consistently refused to discuss the case. Yet his alibi held up.

These things make me think that he had a good idea of what happened to Mary,but that he was not responsible. I think it's possible that Mary and her husband discussed goings on at that bank. I've always wondered if Mary knerw something she maybe shouldn't have, and planned her disappearance...

JMO

 

[ncthom]

Roy Little was at a training conference for bank examiners when Mary vanished. He was about 70 miles away. His whereabouts were verified. I believe that the report about them being separated was inaccurate, I read it someplace. He knew the exact amount of miles on their car because his job paid for his mileage, and that car was their only vehicle. The roses came when he was out of town.

One of the detectives on the case found Mary's husband's behavior to be strange.Apparently he showed little or no surprise or shock when he was shown the blood stained interior of the car. He refused a poly, and has consistently refused to discuss the case. Yet his alibi held up.

These things make me think that he had a good idea of what happened to Mary,but that he was not responsible. I think it's possible that Mary and her husband discussed goings on at that bank. I've always wondered if Mary knerw something she maybe shouldn't have, and planned her disappearance...

JMO

After all these years, it's tough to separate the facts from the myths. I don't pretend to know all the facts but I'm happy to share what I know. My first job out of college was the same job Roy Little had at the time of Mary's disappearance, a bank examiner with the GA Dept of Banking. Though I worked there some 20 years after Mary disappeared and Roy had long since left the department by then, there was at least one co-worker I remember who had worked with Roy. He spoke of Roy as a quiet fellow but a good guy. He felt the police had targeted Roy unfairly. Maybe that colors my opinion of Roy, but I've never felt there was any real evidence to point to Roy.

There's a frequently repeated misconception that Mary and Roy were separated. I believe it comes from some newspaper accounts that used the word "separated" to describe their physical separation the week of Mary's disappearance: Roy was working in the LaGrange area on a bank examination, staying in a motel, and Mary was in Atlanta. That was the life of a bank examiner - leave your hometown on Monday morning and drive home just a little early on Friday afternoon to allow time to fill out expense reports. Mary and Roy had been married only six weeks - they'd had a lavish wedding at Mary's family church, Myers Park Presbyterian, in Charlotte over the previous Labor Day weekend. They planned to host a small dinner party on Friday, October 15th in their Decatur apartment. There's nothing to point to any discord or any problems in the relationship between Mary and Roy.

I talked with one of Mary's friends from Charlotte who moved to Atlanta with his wife in early 1965 and reconnected with Mary. He told me he felt Roy and Mary were very much in love. Though he saw Roy as somewhat reserved and quiet, he felt there was clear affection between them. Mary was an attractive well-dressed, well-mannered young woman, but she was not considered glamorous or overtly sexual. She dated very little high school. One of her high school friends said, "Mary was just wonderful, but she didn't take up too much space in a room if you know what I mean." Some of Mary's photographs, especially her engagement photos, I think give a misleading impression of Mary as a sultry sensual woman with full lips. Mary did wear heavy makeup, probably because she had facial scars from severe teen acne. I see Mary as a young woman who was smart, hard working, sensible and very respectable. I believe her parents worked very hard to give Mary and her younger sister advantages and Mary was determined to make them proud.

Having said all that, we have to challenge assumptions to make progress. While I don't think Roy was involved in Mary's disappearance, what if he had some suspicions after she disappeared? What if he suspected someone, someone from C&S Bank, from security or law enforcement? What if he didn't have anything more than vague suspicions? What if he was a little afraid and too cautious to make any accusations? That's a very intriguing theory to me and one I had not considered before, thank you.

 

[smile22]

just finished reading this whole thread last night as well as the facebook page. i have some questions maybe someone with more knowledge of the case can answer for me.
was it common back then to go and look for a co worker? i work in retail and if someone does not show up to work we just give them a call.

do you think the bank manager knew more of what was going on and wanted to make sure her car was there.

was the grocery store in the same area that she was visiting her co worker for dinner with? could she have gone grocery shopping after the friend dropped her back to her car. could she have gone before then and all the groceries that were in the car just dry and caned goods.? could security have been involved and thats why they reported not seeing her car?

did anyone from the grocery store see anything or see her on that night?

also nothing is mentioned about the husband. did he remarry after all of this does he have any children is he still alive? did he know something that mary had told him and he was to afraid to say anything to le because he was being blackmailed by those people.

why did her mother have the investigation called off a few years later?

 

[liz b.]

just finished reading this whole thread last night as well as the facebook page. i have some questions maybe someone with more knowledge of the case can answer for me.
was it common back then to go and look for a co worker? i work in retail and if someone does not show up to work we just give them a call.

do you think the bank manager knew more of what was going on and wanted to make sure her car was there.

was the grocery store in the same area that she was visiting her co worker for dinner with? could she have gone grocery shopping after the friend dropped her back to her car. could she have gone before then and all the groceries that were in the car just dry and caned goods.? could security have been involved and thats why they reported not seeing her car?

did anyone from the grocery store see anything or see her on that night?

also nothing is mentioned about the husband. did he remarry after all of this does he have any children is he still alive? did he know something that mary had told him and he was to afraid to say anything to le because he was being blackmailed by those people.

why did her mother have the investigation called off a few years later?

I believe that Mary's mother requested that LE stop looking for Mary when Diane Shields was murdered. Some LEOs were very surprised by this, because Mary had only been missing for a couple of years. Roy Little,IIRC, did remarry later on, but divorced.

JMO

 

[liz b.]

After all these years, it's tough to separate the facts from the myths. I don't pretend to know all the facts but I'm happy to share what I know. My first job out of college was the same job Roy Little had at the time of Mary's disappearance, a bank examiner with the GA Dept of Banking. Though I worked there some 20 years after Mary disappeared and Roy had long since left the department by then, there was at least one co-worker I remember who had worked with Roy. He spoke of Roy as a quiet fellow but a good guy. He felt the police had targeted Roy unfairly. Maybe that colors my opinion of Roy, but I've never felt there was any real evidence to point to Roy.

There's a frequently repeated misconception that Mary and Roy were separated. I believe it comes from some newspaper accounts that used the word "separated" to describe their physical separation the week of Mary's disappearance: Roy was working in the LaGrange area on a bank examination, staying in a motel, and Mary was in Atlanta. That was the life of a bank examiner - leave your hometown on Monday morning and drive home just a little early on Friday afternoon to allow time to fill out expense reports. Mary and Roy had been married only six weeks - they'd had a lavish wedding at Mary's family church, Myers Park Presbyterian, in Charlotte over the previous Labor Day weekend. They planned to host a small dinner party on Friday, October 15th in their Decatur apartment. There's nothing to point to any discord or any problems in the relationship between Mary and Roy.

I talked with one of Mary's friends from Charlotte who moved to Atlanta with his wife in early 1965 and reconnected with Mary. He told me he felt Roy and Mary were very much in love. Though he saw Roy as somewhat reserved and quiet, he felt there was clear affection between them. Mary was an attractive well-dressed, well-mannered young woman, but she was not considered glamorous or overtly sexual. She dated very little high school. One of her high school friends said, "Mary was just wonderful, but she didn't take up too much space in a room if you know what I mean." Some of Mary's photographs, especially her engagement photos, I think give a misleading impression of Mary as a sultry sensual woman with full lips. Mary did wear heavy makeup, probably because she had facial scars from severe teen acne. I see Mary as a young woman who was smart, hard working, sensible and very respectable. I believe her parents worked very hard to give Mary and her younger sister advantages and Mary was determined to make them proud.

Having said all that, we have to challenge assumptions to make progress. While I don't think Roy was involved in Mary's disappearance, what if he had some suspicions after she disappeared? What if he suspected someone, someone from C&S Bank, from security or law enforcement? What if he didn't have anything more than vague suspicions? What if he was a little afraid and too cautious to make any accusations? That's a very intriguing theory to me and one I had not considered before, thank you.

Ncthom,
I never did think Roy Little was involved in her actual disappearance.
I've wondered about the car.I read that some very seasoned LEOs were convinced that the car was staged. Also, Mary told some co workers that she was afraid to be in her apartment alone. So, why didn't she go stay with her ex roomies while Roy was away ? She also supposedly said that she was scared to be in her car alone. But,she went out to dinner at night, and walked back to her car alone. One would think she might have asked her co worker who she had dinner with to walk with her.Or asked mall security to accompany her to her car. Was she maybe setting up her disappearance ? Because she never did say why she was afraid....

And I kind of doubt that she would have fled because of sexual harrasment...She could have just changed jobs if that was the case. Since I believe that Diane Shield's murder is connected to Mary's disappearance, I would imagine that it was something very serious that Mary may have stumbled onto while working her job at the bank.

JMO

 

[ncthom]

Liz,

I appreciate your helping me look at Roy's behavior in a new light. The statement about there being minimal blood in Mary's car may be one of those assumptions we should challenge. The woman on Facebook named Karen Smith seems to know far more about Mary and Dianne's cases than I ever will. She's posted some amazing crime scene photos from the laundry in East Point where Dianne Shield's body was discovered - photos I've never seen published anywhere else. She probably has a contact in the Atlanta Police Dept based on some of the information she's posted on Facebook.

At any rate, one of the things Karen has posted that surprised me most was that according to some reports, Mary's Comet actually had considerable blood in it. I believe Karen described the blood as being pooled on the floor mat between the front bucket seats. As I remember, the Atlanta Journal Constitution reported some anonymous law enforcement officials felt the car looked staged; there was no more blood in the car than you might expect from a nose bleed; and the blood had been smeared over much of the car's surfaces to exaggerate the effect.

Here's my best guess - both things are probably true. There was probably more blood than has been reported. I can see from photos the published photos that the blood appears to have been smeared over the interior of the car. Both of the North Carolina gas station attendants reported the woman who signed the gas receipts had blood on her - blood on her legs, her clothes, and possibly her head. There's no doubt Mary was violently attacked and there would have been no shortage of blood. Ultimately, I don't think it matters exactly how much blood was in the Comet, but I tend to believe there was more than a small amount.

However, when veteran cops who have a well-developed intuition say the car looked staged to them - I believe that too. But I have a different theory about why it looked staged. In the 1960s, criminal profiling was an unknown science. I believe Mary's abductor smeared the blood and staged the scene in her car to make it more horrific when the car was discovered. Staging crime scenes is very common for some killers and is probably better understood today than it was in 1965. One of the strongest indicators that Mary's abduction and Dianne's murder was committed by the same man, I believe, is the staging at both crime scenes. Both crime scenes involved cars. Where Dianne's body was found, she was stuffed into the trunk of her own car, strangled, and had her own scarf stuffed down her throat. Newspaper reports say a cookbook for newlyweds was placed prominently near the body in the trunk - that's staging.

As I've said before, if an expert criminal profiler could create a profile based on the details from the two crime scenes I believe it could include such specific and precise details about the man who did this that someone would recognize him - even after all these years. That's what I hope anyway.

 

[ncthom]

just finished reading this whole thread last night as well as the facebook page. i have some questions maybe someone with more knowledge of the case can answer for me.
was it common back then to go and look for a co worker? i work in retail and if someone does not show up to work we just give them a call.

do you think the bank manager knew more of what was going on and wanted to make sure her car was there.

was the grocery store in the same area that she was visiting her co worker for dinner with? could she have gone grocery shopping after the friend dropped her back to her car. could she have gone before then and all the groceries that were in the car just dry and caned goods.? could security have been involved and thats why they reported not seeing her car?

did anyone from the grocery store see anything or see her on that night?

also nothing is mentioned about the husband. did he remarry after all of this does he have any children is he still alive? did he know something that mary had told him and he was to afraid to say anything to le because he was being blackmailed by those people.

why did her mother have the investigation called off a few years later?

I'll try to help with your questions about the grocery store if you don't mind my answering from memory. The Colonial Grocery Store was part of the Lenox Square Shopping Center. I believe it was at the south end of the shopping center, probably at what would be considered the opposite end of the shopping center from the Rich's parking lot at the corner of Peachtree and Lenox Road. Colonial Grocery was gone from the shopping center by the time I was old enough to remember - so I'm speculating a little about the location, but I think that's what I've read.

My understanding is that Mary and her friend and co-worker Isla Stark agreed to meet at Lenox after work. They drove separately from the C&S Mitchell Street office downtown. Mary stopped at Colonial Grocery first and shopped. Her bags of groceries can be seen in the floor in back of the Comet in newspaper photos. I would guess she shopped for non-pershisable items, and I would guess that she drove from Colonel Grocery to the parking space in Yellow 32 outside Rich's Department Store. She and Isla shopped for an hour or more and then had dinner at the Cafeteria. The cafeteria is sometimes identified as the S&S Cafeteria and sometimes as the Picadilly Cafeteria. When I worked at Lenox in the mid 1980s, there was a Picadilly Cafeteria near Rich's on the Lenox Road side - even though the shopping center had been renovated extensively by then. I've always assumed it was that same cafeteria or at least in the same location where Mary and Isla ate that night.

The news accounts say that Isla said goodbye to Mary at one of the exits or maybe even in the parking lot, but she didn't walk with Mary to her car. She simply saw Mary walking away in the direction of her car. It would have been dark at 8 pm on Thursday, October 14th, but the parking lot was reportedly busy and well-lighted. Somehow Isla knew where Mary's car was parked, because she was able to describe the location to Eugene Rackley, Mary's manager, who found the car parked in the Yellow 32 area of the parking lot the next day.

 

[liz b.]

Liz,

I appreciate your helping me look at Roy's behavior in a new light. The statement about there being minimal blood in Mary's car may be one of those assumptions we should challenge. The woman on Facebook named Karen Smith seems to know far more about Mary and Dianne's cases than I ever will. She's posted some amazing crime scene photos from the laundry in East Point where Dianne Shield's body was discovered - photos I've never seen published anywhere else. She probably has a contact in the Atlanta Police Dept based on some of the information she's posted on Facebook.

At any rate, one of the things Karen has posted that surprised me most was that according to some reports, Mary's Comet actually had considerable blood in it. I believe Karen described the blood as being pooled on the floor mat between the front bucket seats. As I remember, the Atlanta Journal Constitution reported some anonymous law enforcement officials felt the car looked staged; there was no more blood in the car than you might expect from a nose bleed; and the blood had been smeared over much of the car's surfaces to exaggerate the effect.

Here's my best guess - both things are probably true. There was probably more blood than has been reported. I can see from photos the published photos that the blood appears to have been smeared over the interior of the car. Both of the North Carolina gas station attendants reported the woman who signed the gas receipts had blood on her - blood on her legs, her clothes, and possibly her head. There's no doubt Mary was violently attacked and there would have been no shortage of blood. Ultimately, I don't think it matters exactly how much blood was in the Comet, but I tend to believe there was more than a small amount.

However, when veteran cops who have a well-developed intuition say the car looked staged to them - I believe that too. But I have a different theory about why it looked staged. In the 1960s, criminal profiling was an unknown science. I believe Mary's abductor smeared the blood and staged the scene in her car to make it more horrific when the car was discovered. Staging crime scenes is very common for some killers and is probably better understood today than it was in 1965. One of the strongest indicators that Mary's abduction and Dianne's murder was committed by the same man, I believe, is the staging at both crime scenes. Both crime scenes involved cars. Where Dianne's body was found, she was stuffed into the trunk of her own car, strangled, and had her own scarf stuffed down her throat. Newspaper reports say a cookbook for newlyweds was placed prominently near the body in the trunk - that's staging.

As I've said before, if an expert criminal profiler could create a profile based on the details from the two crime scenes I believe it could include such specific and precise details about the man who did this that someone would recognize him - even after all these years. That's what I hope anyway.

Thank you for all of this information ; much of it is new to me... I do remember reading that the woman in the car supposedly had blood on her legs. I think both gas station workers said that there were 2 men in the car with this woman ? Why would they have used Mary's credit card to buy a few dollars worth of gas ? Is it possible that it was to send a message that Mary was alive ? I recall that a witness believed that she saw Mary driving out of the mall parking lot that night, and she was alone.

As to Diane Shield's murder, I had heard that it was very brutal, but that she had not been sexually assaulted.I also read that Diane herself had piut the cookbook in the back of her car... I think that Diane Shields was investigating Mary's disappearance.Perhaps she found out what had actually happened to Mary ?

ETA : didn't Diane have some kind of papers shoved into her throat ?

JMO

 

[ncthom]

It's even harder to get reliable information about Diane's case, because it didn't get nearly the media coverage that Mary's case did. The Atlanta Police Dept seemed determined to keep the two cases from being linked together even when the FBI wanted to link them and take charge of the investigations. Also in 1965 and 1967, newspapers were on tight deadlines because of the typeset printing process and because they had two deadlines every 24 hours - one for the morning edition and one for the evening edition. I've found a number of errors in newspaper stories that got printed over and over again and even picked up by other newspapers.

One thing that confuses me about Diane's murder is that the news accounts said she was strangled or suffocated and the scarf or paper was shoved down her throat. A particularly violent and personal type of murder - not a random killing by a stranger. But in one picture Karen Smith posted, Diane's Chevrolet is shown in the parking lot with what looks like a large amount of blood that has leaked from the trunk and spread toward a drain across the parking lot. It's a horrifying black and white photo that reminds me she was real person. Does anyone remember any mention of a stab wound or any other type of wound that would produce that much blood? I copied the picture when she posted it and I'll post it here if I can find it.

I know police routinely keep some details of high profile crimes from the public so they can distinguish real information from the false confessions and false witness accounts that are so common in well-publized cases. Maybe that would explain some of the confusion.

By the way, Karen Smith posted tonight that she has the complete FBI files (I'm not sure how she got them or if those case files are subject to Freedom of Information Act requests) and that she'll be clearing up some misconceptions about the cases. Should be interesting. Never underestimate what a group of caring people can do.

 

[ncthom]

You can enlarge the photo by clicking on it. The quality isn't great - it looks to be a photo of a photo. I've never seen it published and I wonder if it is from the police file or from an AJC file.

I do find this picture disturbing, but I think it's important to remember the humanity of Mary and Diane. They aren't just cold cases - they were real women.

 

[ncthom]

Here's a newspaper photo of the interior of Mary's Mercury Comet. The bags of groceries she had purchased earlier in the evening can be seen in the rear of the car.

Again, you can click on the photo to make it larger.

 

[smile22]

were the people who were with marry when she was spotted buying gas trying to tell these gas store workers something? did anyone of them get a discription of the men other than marry

 

[liz b.]

were the people who were with marry when she was spotted buying gas trying to tell these gas store workers something? did anyone of them get a discription of the men other than marry

I know only a little : supposedly both gas station workers said that there were 2 men in the car with Mary. They were described as " middle aged " and "unshaven ". They supposedly were ordering her around, making her sign a credit card slip. Mary attempted to hide her face from the gas station employees at both gas stations. The workers noted that she had blood on her legs.

The odd thing about this is that they had Mary pay with her own credit card, well it was hers and her husband's card... If they had paid with cash, no one would ever have known that it was Mary in the car. So, what was the purpose of paying with Mary's credit card ? I don't know, but it sent the message that she was alive at that time....

The only other thing I read is that they were headed north...

JMO

 

[RRW]

I've spent a couple of days reading through this thread and I find the mysterious circumstances surrounding this case quite intriguing. One thing that struck me as odd is a picture posted on the Facebook profile of the Karen Smith that is mentioned. The picture is #5 in the album entitled 'MARY'. (I was unable to get a direct link to the picture and this is something you cannot see in other photos; it has a wider angle or something.) If you look in the front floor board of the car, there is what appears to be a desk plaque with Mary's name on it. If this actually came from her desk at work, why was it not mentioned that it was found in her car? Or was it common practice during that time to take your desk plaque with your name on it with you because of desk sharing? Anyways, just a thought since it seemed out of place.

Edit: I was able to find a way to get a direct link for this photo: http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/...156859521019503.30294.100000863695350&theater

 

[liz b.]

I've spent a couple of days reading through this thread and I find the mysterious circumstances surrounding this case quite intriguing. One thing that struck me as odd is a picture posted on the Facebook profile of the Karen Smith that is mentioned. The picture is #5 in the album entitled 'MARY'. (I was unable to get a direct link to the picture and this is something you cannot see in other photos; it has a wider angle or something.) If you look in the front floor board of the car, there is what appears to be a desk plaque with Mary's name on it. If this actually came from her desk at work, why was it not mentioned that it was found in her car? Or was it common practice during that time to take your desk plaque with your name on it with you because of desk sharing? Anyways, just a thought since it seemed out of place.

Edit: I was able to find a way to get a direct link for this photo: http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/...156859521019503.30294.100000863695350&theater

How interesting... But, I believe that Mary used her married name of Little. Maybe the plaque was some kind of memento... Never have heard it mentioned before.

JMO

 

[liz b.]

View attachment 14231

You can enlarge the photo by clicking on it. The quality isn't great - it looks to be a photo of a photo. I've never seen it published and I wonder if it is from the police file or from an AJC file.

I do find this picture disturbing, but I think it's important to remember the humanity of Mary and Diane. They aren't just cold cases - they were real women.

Thank you for posting these photos.Yes, they do bring home how tragic these cases are. And never solved...In all this time, not one print was ever matched ? Also, that IS a lot of blood by Diane's car.I remember reading that this is how she was located. Obviously had to be more than strangled/suffocated. Strange indeed. Would love to read the FBI file(s).....

JMO

 

[singers]

ETA : didn't Diane have some kind of papers shoved into her throat ?

JMO

I just read through a blog that said that Diane had a phone book shoved in her mouth.

Some-one else posted it seemed suspicious that the only person who knew where she was was her co worker. Also that her boss who went to look for the car refuses to co-operate with cold case investigators.

I think he needs to be looked into.

 

[ncthom]

How interesting... But, I believe that Mary used her married name of Little. Maybe the plaque was some kind of memento... Never have heard it mentioned before.

JMO

That is interesting. I'd never noticed the name plaque. Liz, you're deduction is great - makes perfect sense to me.

 

[Redwood146]

i am a newbie and this is the case that prompted me to join this site. I have read a lot about the case and this is my theory of what happened to Mary.

I have always wondered if this case was indirectly related to something (banking irregularities) she had let slip to the wrong person ( and while this person did not kill her they had men do so on their behalf). I believed she was somehow tricked into letting the men into her car... the men decided to force her to sign the petrol slip telling her she wasnt going to be killed, but she was, and I believe that she was killed not long after signing the second petrol slip. Further more I think the woman who reported that a man tried to get into her car and told her that the back tyre was flat, came face to face with one of Mary's attackers but they never had any intention of attacking her, it was a ruse so the police would think it was a desperate sexual predator trying to find his next victim.

My current questions are around this case are: Is the husband still alive? How many former bank workmates are still alive ? I believe that there could be something gained from talking to them again. What if one of her former bank workmates had an idea of what the issue behind mary's disappearance was... maybe not mention it back then so they didnt end up missing as well, but now after so much time has passed there is likely not to be any threat. Or maybe the husband might provide more insight into who might be capable of harming her and for what reason.

I think the signing by Mary of the petrol slip had nothing to with purchasing petrol but a warning from the men to anyone else who was thinking of letting higher authorities know about the issue she discovered at the bank.
All just my opinion of course. I wish her body had been discovered so there would be some closure.