GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam Co, 2 May 2014 - #13

[concernedcitizen706]

This is probably irrelevant, but according to the Georgia Real Estate Commission, Vicki Stephens got her salesperson license 1/17/2002 and it expired on 4/30/2014 for lapsed fees.
It would appear her license was still valid, but does not state if she was attached to a broker at the time (the only way a sales agent can sell real estate).

Okay good research there. That's helpful information. So it seems like her license had just expired.

Since you do good research, can you find out when the listed house that was nearby sold? And was it right next door, or was it down the street, etc?

 

[concernedcitizen706]

So I did a little of my own research. I saw on this site in earlier posts, that the cameras at guard gate went out on Monday, April 28th. So the murder was theorized to happen on Friday, May 2nd, or Saturday May 3. I searched it and I see there was some bad weather in the South that weekend, I'm not sure how the weather was specifically over there.

I looked on Zillow, and I see the house to the left, closer to the lake, and to the left of the REM lot, was on sale starting around like January 2014. It was for sale for a while after the murder too. With Coldwell banker. Which was the agency that Vicky Stephens was at. I don't know if she specifically was the agent there. I'm assuming that's the place, because people here have said that it was right close to the Dermond house. So the house for sale, was the next house over on the left, past a small lot. I would imagine, there would be a for sale sign in front of it. Maybe with her picture and number on it.

Also someone here earlier wrote that they thought Vicky Stephens had a seizure that day. I don't know if she has a known history of that, or what. I did read here that the drowning took place during the day too.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

So I did a little of my own research. I saw on this site in earlier posts, that the cameras at guard gate went out on Monday, April 28th. So the murder was theorized to happen on Friday, May 2nd, or Saturday May 3. I searched it and I see there was some bad weather in the South that weekend, I'm not sure how the weather was specifically over there.

I looked on Zillow, and I see the house to the left, closer to the lake, and to the left of the REM lot, was on sale starting around like January 2014. It was for sale for a while after the murder too. With Coldwell banker. Which was the agency that Vicky Stephens was at. I don't know if she specifically was the agent there. I'm assuming that's the place, because people here have said that it was right close to the Dermond house. So the house for sale, was the next house over on the left, past a small lot. I would imagine, there would be a for sale sign in front of it. Maybe with her picture and number on it.

Also someone here earlier wrote that they thought Vicky Stephens had a seizure that day. I don't know if she has a known history of that, or what. I did read here that the drowning took place during the day too.

So this is my further thinking. My further theories. The perp went by boat to the area, the first time, while he was on vacation there, maybe at the campground there across the lake, because he was curious to see the REM lot. He had heard the rumors about that lot for a while before and wanted to see what it looked like. He got out the boat and hung out at the REM lot for a little bit. He noticed the house ahead of the lot was for sale and he saw the sign there. And maybe I'm thinking, that Vicki Stephens was on there with a pic and her phone number. And if she lived in the area for a long time, and also was a homeowner, she probably had her home address listed, so he was able to Google her name and her address. It's not a very big town there. It's possible he saw her there and her car there too at listed house, while he was there. And he started fantasizing about her, first.

So at some point he figured out about the parking pass, he copied somebody's sticker there by using his phone. So he made several trips to that house over time. Whenever he passed in the area. And at some point, the Dermonds saw him hanging around there. Maybe even Russell spoke to him at one point and asked him who he was.

So then he figured, if he wanted to get Stephens, he needed to kill Russell and Shirley first. Because they were eyewitnesses that he was there. He didn't mind, he figured that as part of the fun. So he attempted to do that first, to make sure that that went okay, and got the witnesses eliminated. When there was a big storm that went by in April, he took that as an opportunity to disable the cameras there at guard gate, to get in there more easily. He was already well aware of using weather events to cover up messing with cameras and houses. He made a few trips of surveillance that week there, getting in by car, in preparation. He also noticed the guard routine and when they went on break.

So he killed the Dermonds, and everything went well there, from his perspective. And after he killed the Dermonds, now he had to kill Stephens too, because maybe she saw him over there near their house too, and she was also a witness.

So then a couple days later, he went to kill Stephens at her house. There's no telling when he got there, I don't know her schedule that day. So it would depend on what she was doing that day. But let's say nobody saw her that day. I mean her real estate license just expired, so she probably wasn't really out working that day. So she could have been at home. Then that might leave an opening for this theory. If that is the case, it's possible he was in her house all day. Or maybe he even broke in the night before. Again I don't know the circumstances, or if she had any partner in the house with her. But the obituary did not mention a partner. So she could have been alone. So in that case, the perp could have been in there for a while. And he was probably trying to spend more time there. But then she got a text that someone was coming over, he answered back or he made her answer back, so he had to quickly drown her and leave. He didn't want to get involved in a big messy murder scene this time, because he figured that might be too risky. So he made it kind of ambiguous that time.

Either way, he was satisfied with his work. The only thing he was frustrated with, was that since these murders took place inside a house, he could not get near to the scene enough, to watch police process the scene. So he got the idea that next time, he might kill someone in a public place, so he can get better access to the crime scene.

So there you go. I think that theory could work.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

So I was thinking about how the death of the realtor Stephens and the death of the Dermonds, were so close together in time. I believe the Dermonds were discovered on Tuesday and Vicki Stephens on Thursday.

So let's assume there could be some kind of link. And of course I don't know that, especially since I don't know what Stephens's schedule was on the day of her death and if she had contact with other people.

But let's assume she did not. And that she was alone. And that there could be some kind of link.

Did the Dermond murderer go home, and then come back, a couple days later?

Or was he still there the whole time?

My guess is, seeing how sick the guy is, he was there the whole time. This is also supported by the fact that there was a witness who saw a white guy, and possible perp, hanging out there outside like over the weekend or something. So it did not look like the perp left right away. So okay we know he didn't leave right away. So then how long was it, before he actually left?

So I question when Shirley was actually killed. It might even have been after Tuesday. He could have had her captive in his car maybe in the campground across the lake, even after Russell was discovered. And then killed her, dumped her body there in lake at night one of the late nights afterwards. I'm guessing like Tuesday night.

And then Wednesday, he went over to Stephens house. Because he knew all the police were busy over at the Dermonds house. Stephens had a friend come over on Thursday, so the perp had to leave real quick.

I'm just saying, what would be the point of him going home and coming back. More risky. So I think if the two are connected, he probably stayed.

And that's why he took Shirley away from the house, instead of just leaving here there like he did the husband, because he wanted to keep her alive for a little while afterwards.

That would fit in with a certain profile too. But it's just my guess.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

So I was thinking about how the death of the realtor Stephens and the death of the Dermonds, were so close together in time. I believe the Dermonds were discovered on Tuesday and Vicki Stephens on Thursday.

So let's assume there could be some kind of link. And of course I don't know that, especially since I don't know what Stephens's schedule was on the day of her death and if she had contact with other people.

But let's assume she did not. And that she was alone. And that there could be some kind of link.

Did the Dermond murderer go home, and then come back, a couple days later?

Or was he still there the whole time?

My guess is, seeing how sick the guy is, he was there the whole time. This is also supported by the fact that there was a witness who saw a white guy, and possible perp, hanging out there outside like over the weekend or something. So it did not look like the perp left right away. So okay we know he didn't leave right away. So then how long was it, before he actually left?

So I question when Shirley was actually killed. It might even have been after Tuesday. He could have had her captive in his car maybe in the campground across the lake, even after Russell was discovered. And then killed her, dumped her body there in lake at night one of the late nights afterwards. I'm guessing like Tuesday night.

And then Wednesday, he went over to Stephens house. Because he knew all the police were busy over at the Dermonds house. Stephens had a friend come over on Thursday, so the perp had to leave real quick.

I'm just saying, what would be the point of him going home and coming back. More risky. So I think if the two are connected, he probably stayed.

And that's why he took Shirley away from the house, instead of just leaving here there like he did the husband, because he wanted to keep her alive for a little while afterwards.

That would fit in with a certain profile too. But it's just my guess.

https://brainly.com/question/32663273

It says here in this link above, that it takes 1 to 4 days for a dead body to surface in a lake. And we knew Shirley was found, I believe it was 10 days after. She was weighted down a little bit. But I don't know that you become more buoyant, once you become buoyant. In other words, it's kind of a black and white thing. So whenever her body became buoyant, that was probably the day her body surfaced. And it says here, it takes 1 to 4 days. And she was found after 10 days. So that would make sense with my theory that she was kept alive longer. 10 days - 4 days to buoyancy is 6 days. 6 days after Friday night, possible night of murder, is Thursday. Interesting. That is the day Vicki Stevens was found dead. It's possible after Vicky Stephens was found, he went over to his car and drowned Shirley that night. The timing would make sense. And then she was found like a day or two later.

 

[Kittybunny]

https://brainly.com/question/32663273

It says here in this link above, that it takes 1 to 4 days for a dead body to surface in a lake. And we knew Shirley was found, I believe it was 10 days after. She was weighted down a little bit. But I don't know that you become more buoyant, once you become buoyant. In other words, it's kind of a black and white thing. So whenever her body became buoyant, that was probably the day her body surfaced. And it says here, it takes 1 to 4 days. And she was found after 10 days. So that would make sense with my theory that she was kept alive longer. 10 days - 4 days to buoyancy is 6 days. 6 days after Friday night, possible night of murder, is Thursday. Interesting. That is the day Vicki Stevens was found dead. It's possible after Vicky Stephens was found, he went over to his car and drowned Shirley that night. The timing would make sense. And then she was found like a day or two later.

Hmm I’m a bit skeptical of that link that says 1-4 days for drowning - I think it’s highly dependent on the conditions. When Naya Rivera (Glee actress) drowned in that lake, it took 5 days for her body to surface. And in the many cases of river drownings, 7-14 days seems to be the norm, and 10 is common. And Shirley was pretty weighted down in a deep part of the lake. Murderers tend not to keep victims alive longer than necessary so personally don’t believe she was kept alive but that’s just my opinion.

However the whole Vicki Stephens thing is highly intriguing! That’s great sleuthing on your part. Just because her obit doesn’t list a partner doesn’t mean she couldn’t have been dating someone - she could have been. This guy gets the idea that maybe the Dermond’s have lots of money in the house, does the crime. Vicki gets suspicious, starts asking questions he doesn’t like and boom, she’s gone too.

Hope Sheriff Sills looked into this! But who knows!

 

[concernedcitizen706]

Hmm I’m a bit skeptical of that link that says 1-4 days for drowning - I think it’s highly dependent on the conditions. When Naya Rivera (Glee actress) drowned in that lake, it took 5 days for her body to surface. And in the many cases of river drownings, 7-14 days seems to be the norm, and 10 is common. And Shirley was pretty weighted down in a deep part of the lake. Murderers tend not to keep victims alive longer than necessary so personally don’t believe she was kept alive but that’s just my opinion.

However the whole Vicki Stephens thing is highly intriguing! That’s great sleuthing on your part. Just because her obit doesn’t list a partner doesn’t mean she couldn’t have been dating someone - she could have been. This guy gets the idea that maybe the Dermond’s have lots of money in the house, does the crime. Vicki gets suspicious, starts asking questions he doesn’t like and boom, she’s gone too.

Hope Sheriff Sills looked into this! But who knows!

Okay that is interesting information on how long it takes for a victim to surface. So you said the Glee victim took five days. So I'll stick with 5 days. So let's say it took two days for the body to be found. So 7 days. So she could have been alive for 3 days after the murder was discovered. That would be like the night after Stephens was killed. That could work. Although he probably killed her before Stephens. So maybe he kept her like until Tuesday. The day the murder was discovered. Well I agree that both Stephens and the Dermonds had to go, if the perp wanted to do this crime. Because if he was hanging around over there by their houses, no matter which one he was going for, the other one probably saw him hanging around over there. And today with sketch artists, they can do wonders on recreating a face. They probably also had some identifying information on his car etc. So either one of them would be able to give good information on him. But again, I don't believe this had anything to do with money. This was a serial killing type crime, based on him being a sexual predator. If money was involved, he would have taken something. As to whether he kept Shirley alive for some time, well it's hard to say. He took her from the house, so that's kind of unusual. He didn't have to do that. So I believe that shows that he did take her alive and intended to keep her. Otherwise, why take her? As to how long he kept her alive? I don't know. But it could be longer than we think. I wonder what state her body was in when they found it in the lake. That would be a clue.

 

[Vedder]

https://brainly.com/question/32663273

It says here in this link above, that it takes 1 to 4 days for a dead body to surface in a lake. And we knew Shirley was found, I believe it was 10 days after. She was weighted down a little bit. But I don't know that you become more buoyant, once you become buoyant. In other words, it's kind of a black and white thing. So whenever her body became buoyant, that was probably the day her body surfaced. And it says here, it takes 1 to 4 days. And she was found after 10 days. So that would make sense with my theory that she was kept alive longer. 10 days - 4 days to buoyancy is 6 days. 6 days after Friday night, possible night of murder, is Thursday. Interesting. That is the day Vicki Stevens was found dead. It's possible after Vicky Stephens was found, he went over to his car and drowned Shirley that night. The timing would make sense. And then she was found like a day or two later.

Shirley was snagged on underwater branches IIRC. She would've surfaced earlier otherwise.

 

[tlcya]

hard to believe this case remains unsolved all these years later.

 

[geojeffrey]

hard to believe this case remains unsolved all these years later.

Hoping for a Christmas miracle and some movement on this case!!!!

 

[concernedcitizen706]

Shirley was snagged on underwater branches IIRC. She would've surfaced earlier otherwise.

I'm not sure how that works. My feeling on that is, it's kind of a black or white thing. Either the body is buoyant, or it's not. So I believe that once the body is buoyant, it's going to surface. And it's going to rise up through any branches... on the day that it surfaces. Like I don't think the body gets more buoyant, after that point. So I don't see why it would rise up, more, after that point. Unless maybe there were some strong currents or such. But since it's a lake, I doubt there were that many currents.

So no, I don't believe there was a delay because of some branches.

So I believe she was found 10 days after the murder was discovered. And she was found maybe 4 days after she was murdered. So that's 14 days after she was murdered. And it takes a body maybe 5 days to surface. So give it a few extra days for her to be found. So she probably should have been seen surfacing like the Friday after. But she wasn't found until like almost the next week after that. So I think she could have been held alive for up to a week.

Where? Maybe the campground. Maybe a vacant vacation house nearby. Maybe the place where the perp was staying.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
The coroner may have theorized early on that Mr D’s murder did not take place in the garage, but for years now I have never heard that as a possibility. Just the process of comings and goings to pull that off heightens the possibility that someone would have noticed something amiss and we have no witnesses to anything weird.
Whether officially stated or not, I feel certain some type of DNA identification was done, just to cross the T’s and dot the I’s. I have never heard of a person’s fingerprints being altered by a change in their weight even in testimony in a court of law.
My theory for awhile now, which is also probably wrong, is that the killers were targeting someone else in that development/neighborhood. They came by water and their navigation was off. They mistakenly attacked the Dermonds. I would have hoped LE would have investigated some of the neighbors to see what they were into. The killers ran fast and ran far once they realized their mistake. LE cannot find any evidence or connection simply because there is none. The Dermonds were not the intended targets.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed (no source)
The coroner may have theorized early on that Mr D’s murder did not take place in the garage, but for years now I have never heard that as a possibility. Just the process of comings and goings to pull that off heightens the possibility that someone would have noticed something amiss and we have no witnesses to anything weird.
Whether officially stated or not, I feel certain some type of DNA identification was done, just to cross the T’s and dot the I’s. I have never heard of a person’s fingerprints being altered by a change in their weight even in testimony in a court of law.
My theory for awhile now, which is also probably wrong, is that the killers were targeting someone else in that development/neighborhood. They came by water and their navigation was off. They mistakenly attacked the Dermonds. I would have hoped LE would have investigated some of the neighbors to see what they were into. The killers ran fast and ran far once they realized their mistake. LE cannot find any evidence or connection simply because there is none. The Dermonds were not the intended targets.

If the Dermonds were not the intended target, the perps wouldn't have hung out all weekend there. The perp was seen running around the yard the next day. It's pretty clear to me this was a sex predator and or serial killer crime because that's the only crime where you would spend so much time at a place.

 

[s. simon]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
The coroner may have theorized early on that Mr D’s murder did not take place in the garage, but for years now I have never heard that as a possibility. Just the process of comings and goings to pull that off heightens the possibility that someone would have noticed something amiss and we have no witnesses to anything weird.
Whether officially stated or not, I feel certain some type of DNA identification was done, just to cross the T’s and dot the I’s. I have never heard of a person’s fingerprints being altered by a change in their weight even in testimony in a court of law.
My theory for awhile now, which is also probably wrong, is that the killers were targeting someone else in that development/neighborhood. They came by water and their navigation was off. They mistakenly attacked the Dermonds. I would have hoped LE would have investigated some of the neighbors to see what they were into. The killers ran fast and ran far once they realized their mistake. LE cannot find any evidence or connection simply because there is none. The Dermonds were not the intended targets.

Starry, I appreciate your reply. To my knowledge, the final coroner's report on this case said neither the murder nor the beheading took place in the garage. Sheriff Sills searched Putnam County thoroughly for the scene of the murder, but could not find it. A simple explanation would be that it was not in Putnam County. He would have never spent the money to do this extensive search had the coroner's report not said the crime was committed elsewhere. Under my theory there would have been no one else save Mr. Dermond "running around", and he certainly belonged there. Sheriff Sills was defeated in the last election (this case had no direct bearing) by now Sheriff Gator DeLoach. Perhaps the new sheriff can look at this case with fresh eyes, without the intellectual knowledge that the murder was committed elsewhere while always harboring the emotional belief it was committed in that garage. It was not.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Starry, I appreciate your reply. To my knowledge, the final coroner's report on this case said neither the murder nor the beheading took place in the garage. Sheriff Sills searched Putnam County thoroughly for the scene of the murder, but could not find it. A simple explanation would be that it was not in Putnam County. He would have never spent the money to do this extensive search had the coroner's report not said the crime was committed elsewhere. Under my theory there would have been no one else save Mr. Dermond "running around", and he certainly belonged there. Sheriff Sills was defeated in the last election (this case had no direct bearing) by now Sheriff Gator DeLoach. Perhaps the new sheriff can look at this case with fresh eyes, without the intellectual knowledge that the murder was committed elsewhere while always harboring the emotional belief it was committed in that garage. It was not.

I’m not trying to be contrary, but I would say that it’s not the coroner’s job to determine where a crime takes place. That would be up to the investigators. Maybe they asked the coroner for some input? I don’t know.
Anyway, I have never seen or read anything about the coroner’s findings on this and never seen or read anything about the sheriff searching far and wide for another crime scene.
If you have any links to any of this I’d love to take a look.

 

[s. simon]

I’m not trying to be contrary, but I would say that it’s not the coroner’s job to determine where a crime takes place. That would be up to the investigators. Maybe they asked the coroner for some input? I don’t know.
Anyway, I have never seen or read anything about the coroner’s findings on this and never seen or read anything about the sheriff searching far and wide for another crime scene.
If you have any links to any of this I’d love to take a look.

Starry, If you want to know what really happened, you have to go back to May 8,2014. It only takes a few clicks. First, go back to the beginning of this thread series (click "Prev"). Above all of the previous threads of this format you will see the beginning thread in a different format at the top left. You will then have gone back 9 1/2 years with nothing to show for "the crime was committed in the garage". That will never be solved IMHO because that is not how this happened. I can not think of a more eloquent argument against the "garage" theory than that wasted decade.

The coroner never said where the crime happened. He said it could not have been committed in that garage. He was the only person with a medical background to see the garage. The fact that you could clearly see Mr. Dermond's pajamas shows that the head could not have been removed there IMHO.

 

[s. simon]

Starry, sorry. Click page 1. That will get you there.

 

[fsngruv]

Starry, If you want to know what really happened, you have to go back to May 8,2014. It only takes a few clicks. First, go back to the beginning of this thread series (click "Prev"). Above all of the previous threads of this format you will see the beginning thread in a different format at the top left. You will then have gone back 9 1/2 years with nothing to show for "the crime was committed in the garage". That will never be solved IMHO because that is not how this happened. I can not think of a more eloquent argument against the "garage" theory than that wasted decade.

The coroner never said where the crime happened. He said it could not have been committed in that garage. He was the only person with a medical background to see the garage. The fact that you could clearly see Mr. Dermond's pajamas shows that the head could not have been removed there IMHO.

I think that's interesting, thanks for your input! How would the lamp and bloody towels in the garage be explained?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Starry, sorry. Click page 1. That will get you there.

Thanks but I was requesting actual links to the coroner’s report or a MSM report that said that or that the sheriff was out looking for different crime scenes. I don’t remember ever reading anything like that.
I’m not going to read through nine and a half years of posts that I probably read nine and a half years ago.
We’ll just have to disagree. I don’t believe Mr D faked his death in order to kill his wife.

 

[Vedder]

I'm not sure how that works. My feeling on that is, it's kind of a black or white thing. Either the body is buoyant, or it's not. So I believe that once the body is buoyant, it's going to surface. And it's going to rise up through any branches... on the day that it surfaces. Like I don't think the body gets more buoyant, after that point. So I don't see why it would rise up, more, after that point. Unless maybe there were some strong currents or such. But since it's a lake, I doubt there were that many currents.

So no, I don't believe there was a delay because of some branches.

So I believe she was found 10 days after the murder was discovered. And she was found maybe 4 days after she was murdered. So that's 14 days after she was murdered. And it takes a body maybe 5 days to surface. So give it a few extra days for her to be found. So she probably should have been seen surfacing like the Friday after. But she wasn't found until like almost the next week after that. So I think she could have been held alive for up to a week.

Where? Maybe the campground. Maybe a vacant vacation house nearby. Maybe the place where the perp was staying.

I hear you but I would have to go back to the old threads to find where I saw a theory that I believe was from Sills saying where she was found had trees under the water so she may have been snagged as she was coming up.

However, I don't recall ever reading anything saying she may have been held. This article states:
The time authorities believe her badly decomposed body was in the lake is consistent with the timing of when her husband was killed a few weeks ago, reports the station.

Report: Slain Ga. woman, 87, suffered head trauma

The badly-decomposed body of Shirley Dermond was found in a central Ga. lake weeks after her elderly husband was found slain and decapitated in the couple's home

www.cbsnews.com