GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam Co, 2 May 2014 - #13

[MassGuy]

It came early but you nailed it...

Citing the horrific double murder of an elderly couple as his “No. 1 case,” the sheriff of Putnam County, Georgia, said he is waiting on the results of DNA testing related to the 2014 slaying of Russell and Shirley Dermond.

Sheriff Howard Sills said this week that two DNA labs - one in Texas and the other in Utah - have found DNA tied to the murders of Russell and Shirley Dermond. Sillis said the DNA examined by both Othram and Sorenson Forensics have determined it does not belong to the victims.

“I’m waiting on the results of whatever they have,” Sills said. “Hopefully we’ll be able to submit it to CODIS [a national criminal DNA database]. If there’s no hit there, I’m hoping we can get it into the genealogical database.”

Georgia sheriff expecting DNA results from 2014 double murder | ATLVault

Russell and Shirley Dermond were killed in what an FBI agent called ‘one of the strangest cases I’ve ever seen.’

www.atlantanewsfirst.com

If he's hoping to eventually enter this DNA into CODIS, that means they are struggling to even get to that point. When Othram is going IGG work, it's typically after a sample has been entered into CODIS and it doesn't generate a hit. They wouldn't first start with IGG.

This means they are trying to first develop a useable profile from that DNA. That's something at least.

 

[STAGNUM]

It came early but you nailed it...

Citing the horrific double murder of an elderly couple as his “No. 1 case,” the sheriff of Putnam County, Georgia, said he is waiting on the results of DNA testing related to the 2014 slaying of Russell and Shirley Dermond.

Sheriff Howard Sills said this week that two DNA labs - one in Texas and the other in Utah - have found DNA tied to the murders of Russell and Shirley Dermond. Sillis said the DNA examined by both Othram and Sorenson Forensics have determined it does not belong to the victims.

“I’m waiting on the results of whatever they have,” Sills said. “Hopefully we’ll be able to submit it to CODIS [a national criminal DNA database]. If there’s no hit there, I’m hoping we can get it into the genealogical database.”

Georgia sheriff expecting DNA results from 2014 double murder | ATLVault

Russell and Shirley Dermond were killed in what an FBI agent called ‘one of the strangest cases I’ve ever seen.’

www.atlantanewsfirst.com

Thanks; I did not expect it so early!! He is just regurgitating from last year it seems.

Possible break in decade-old murder case as DNA not belonging to Dermonds found on evidence, sheriff says

Sheriff Howard Sills told 11Alive's Cody Alcorn he's received word from a DNA testing lab that DNA not belonging to the Dermonds was found on evidence.

www.11alive.com

 

[STAGNUM]

Starry, I appreciate your reply. To my knowledge, the final coroner's report on this case said neither the murder nor the beheading took place in the garage. Sheriff Sills searched Putnam County thoroughly for the scene of the murder, but could not find it. A simple explanation would be that it was not in Putnam County. He would have never spent the money to do this extensive search had the coroner's report not said the crime was committed elsewhere. Under my theory there would have been no one else save Mr. Dermond "running around", and he certainly belonged there. Sheriff Sills was defeated in the last election (this case had no direct bearing) by now Sheriff Gator DeLoach. Perhaps the new sheriff can look at this case with fresh eyes, without the intellectual knowledge that the murder was committed elsewhere while always harboring the emotional belief it was committed in that garage. It was not.

Sheriff Sills is still the Sheriff in Putnam County SC. You have your Putnam Counties mixed up. "Gator" De Loach is in FloriDuh.

 

[jonnyrock]

You might want to consider the boat as a mobile crime scene. That would explain a lot given the total lack of evidence on and throughout the Dermond property.

 

[bluestsocks]

I agree that there's almost too many details, that obscure the essence of the case.

In particular, no one really knows what kind of crime it really was. Straight out murder?

The Sheriff keeps mentioning some type of extortion.

"Now Sills thinks the Dermonds died after what he calls a botched robbery extortion — in which the Dermonds were unable to deliver whatever cash or valuables the bad guys demanded."

Mystery man emerges in year-old Ga. beheading case

Russell Dermond was found beheaded; his wife's body was found in lake last year.

www.usatoday.com

Clearly, there was an intention to involve both members of the couple. Russell was the guy with the money. He could have been lured somewhere without involving Shirley. For example, go to the house when she was at her bridge game, or confront him when he was out for a walk, or make an appointment under some pretext.

No, he/they wanted them in the house.

I think Russell still being in his robe/pajamas/slippers indicates, the couple were confronted in the house. Surely if he'd been tricked to go anywhere outside his back yard, he'd have put on some clothes and shoes.

So was the plan to kidnap Shirley and hold her a
hostage, to force Russell to do something? But it didn't work...?

So then, perhaps all the effort to dispose of her in the lake was because she had DNA and fibres and hair etc on her, from being handled and moved...and so the perps were determined none of that potential evidence should ever be obtained...

But extortion of what? Was he expected to have a safe full of cash and valuables, and they wanted the combination?

They don't seem to have been living a flashy lifestyle that might lead someone to think they had hidden cash or jewels.

Have there been similar crimes as that elsewhere? Because I feel like that wouldn't be a one-off, it would be an MO.

I don't believe it's very likely the killer(s) planned to force him to go to the bank and withdraw up to his daily limit... That's usually pretty low, but I guess it'd be good to know what that limit was at his bank (Pat Brown's theory is that he didn't use ATMs, so couldn't withdraw cash).

He's surely not going to make an appointment with his bank manager on a Saturday and ask for 25k in unmarked bills...

If it was something in the home they wanted: why not just kill them both and ransack the home...

What else could someone like Russell have, that could be acquired through extortion/murder, but not be traced by police?
- valuable art? they don't seem the type.

It is a puzzle...

JMO

This kind of raises one of my essential go back to the beginning questions on this case, which is - why the different methods of disposing of remains? You can understand why perhaps the mutilation on him but not her due to different methods of murder. You can understand too why they might have been killed differently and at different times. But what ultimately I feel would tell us a lot about motive and the type of person(s) involved is what made them decide to leave him in his garage, but take her out to the lake, when it would be much easier to use the same method to deal with both sets of remains?

 

[Razz]

Why would someone (s) kill the Dermonds off site and why bring Mr. Durmond back and prop him in the garage? Had Mrs. D. Already been killed and disposed of before bringing Mr D. back home to his garage? Sounds like an awful lot of (unnecessary?) manuevering on the part of the perps. Sounds like they wanted Mr. D. to be found and that someone was sending a message. IMO, Mrs D . either wasn't meant to be found at all or she was meant to be found but way after the discovery of Mr. D.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

Why does the sheriff think that the man was killed offsite? I think my theory makes more sense. The perpetrator brought some kind of boat, I think more convenient to bring an inflatable rowboat in his car. And the perp did the beheading inside the boat. And that would contain all the blood. Probably also contain any cadaver smell too that the dogs could pick up. Or it's possible he put the boat inside his van or truck and did the beheading in the car.

I'm not sure how that works exactly, if the body was beheaded in the area, will the cadaver smell still be there in the general area? Or does there have to be physical contact of some objects with the body. Clearly the body was found in the garage, so there's clearly cadaver smell already in the garage. Why couldn't the body have been beheaded in the garage, where the cadaver smell was? If the killer put the body in some kind of container that would contain the bleeding.

He also maybe could put the body in his car and then drove it over to the REM vacant lot next door, and did it there. I guess he took the victims shirt off if they found no blood on it. Then when he was done, he waited some time until the bleeding was done, put the shirt back on, and drove the car back close to the garage and put the body in the garage. I think the REM lot was the staging area.

He had Shirley tied up in the house the whole time. Or maybe she was in the passenger seat of the car.

Anyway, either way, it's seems doable. The main thing was the perp probably put the body in a container of some sort, and that would explain a lot of things. I don't think it's that complicated and mysterious like people make it out to be.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

You know I was just thinking about it some more.
And I now think it's possible that they were killed off-site.

I think it's possible he put both of them in a car, alive, and took them to another house. Then he held them there for a day or two, and drove them back to the lake house. Or at least drove the man back to the house and left him in the garage. And he could have killed the man at the other house. And put him in a container like an inflatable boat in the car to bring him back. The reason he would do this is so that he could take his time and relax in the other house, where he knew he would not be surprised and he could probably clean up better afterwards. And I believe he probably kept them alive for a few days and tortured them. Then he drove back and put the man back into the garage. The reason he put the man back into the garage was maybe because it was a convenient place to get rid of the body. Or maybe he wanted to taunt police with the beheading. And then drove around to the other side of the lake and killed Shirley and put Shirley in the lake with the inflatable rowboat.

I mean I don't know, I could go either way. If the sheriff seems convinced that the male was not killed there, then it's possible they were both taken alive to another spot. And then brought back.

--- Are we sure that the killer did not make Shirley or the husband drive their own car to the other spot? While he sat in the back with a gun? That way he could get through the checkpoints easier. And then he made Shirley drive their car back, while he sat next to her, and put the car and the husband's body back in the garage. Did they check their car well for any DNA or anything in there?

--- Or .. he brought them in his car both alive to the campground. He held them there for a day or two. Decapitated the husband at the campground in the tent. Tied up the female in the tent. Then put the husband in the boat and brought him back to the house and put him in the garage. Maybe he had some kind of cart to help him take the body to the garage. Then went back by boat to the campground, killed Shirley and then put her in the lake with the boat. Since it was a small boat he could not put them both in at the same time.

There are several possibilities here.

 

[STAGNUM]

Post in thread 'What case really burns your butt?'

Feb 27, 2025

can you expand on this more? do you have specific suspects in mind?

I have a couple theories, the main one has to do with mistaken identity with another person key to the case who has history with a certain criminal group from early in his career. This video was taken before the murders. As an aside, there is an interesting, yet short encounter between Russell and another gentleman in the store. I wonder if Sheriff Sills ever followed up with that person?

While you watch RD shop in the video, look at him and then consider how Sheriff Sills might appear in civilian clothes and...

• STAGNUM

• 

without his mustache. Could someone from Sheriff Sills past want him gone? What if that person spotted RD as his doppelganger? What if that person followed RD from the store or bank to his home and sent a team out later, with a sword?

View attachment 566814

View attachment 566817
I will wrap my theory up thusly: Sheriff Sills brought down the Nuwaubian Nation. Its members were many and they still exist. Someone in that cult wanted Sheriff Sills dead. Russell Dermond, in the video above resembles Sheriff Sills as dressed above, sans the white mustache. Someone may have spotted Russel Dermond, followed him to his home and then erroneously arranged the murder or acted spontaneously. RD's head taken as proof, a prize for the leader of the NN.

Does this explain why Sheriff Sills has failed to engage GBI or FBI in this case and why year after year new leads are found and quickly disposed of. We do know Sheriff Sills is very afraid of intruders on his property as evidenced by his armed response to an accidental encounter on his driveway .

I am sticking with my theory that a cult member of the Nuwaubian Nation did this.

Nuwaubian Nation of Moors

Originally a putatively Muslim group, Nuwaubianism is best understood as a cult that promotes a bizarre and complicated “theology.”

www.splcenter.org

 

[dotr]

fwiw..

Premiered Aug 9, 2024 #DarkHistory #TrueCrime #CultExposé
Join me in this eye-opening episode of Behind the Headlines as we unravel the disturbing tale of the United Nuwaubian Nation of Moors. What seemed like an innocent roadside attraction in Putnam County, Georgia—a bizarre replica of Egyptian pyramids, sphinxes, and statues—was actually a front for a sinister cult led by Dwight York.

 

[Valiant]

What would be the motive for a cult member to perform these killings?
That’s the problem I see is there just doesn’t seem to be a motive for anyone to have done this.

 

[Vedder]

What would be the motive for a cult member to perform these killings?
That’s the problem I see is there just doesn’t seem to be a motive for anyone to have done this.

This subject was debated ad nauseum on the earliest threads. It got to the point that we weren't to discuss it here, and a dedicated thread was created in the Parking Lot.

https://websleuths.com/threads/nuwaubian-cult.251809/

 

[dotr]

2024

FBI says whoever killed elderly Putnam County couple a decade ago should be ‘nervous’

The FBI granted its first interview about the murder of Russell and Shirley Dermond in 10 years to Channel 2 investigative reporter Mark Winne.

www.wsbtv.com

'' Sills said the Othram Lab in Texas found DNA too, and referred Sills to Sorenson.
Smith told Winne that evidence from the Dermond murders had previously gone to the FBI lab in Quantico, Virginia but more will be there soon for types of testing in which that lab specializes.
But he said new leads aren’t limited to DNA.''

“We have utilized different techniques and different methods of analyzing cellular data, different devices that may have been in the area during the murder and after the fact,” Smith said.

“Have you got significant leads from that?” Winne asked Smith.
“Yes, we have,” Smith said.''

''But now the FBI is offering a new reward of up to $20,000 for information leading to the arrest and conviction of an individual or individuals responsible for the Dermonds’ murders.
“Do you believe it’s more than one person involved in the Dermond murders?” Winne asked Smith.
“I believe so,” Smith said.''

 

[STAGNUM]

What would be the motive for a cult member to perform these killings?
That’s the problem I see is there just doesn’t seem to be a motive for anyone to have done this.

The motive is very absent in nearly all theories. I am not the first to suggest that the killings were some sort of revenge by the Nuwaubian Cult. However I am the first to suggest mistaken identity as the trigger. Read my post #1029 for my theory.

1) Sheriff Sills is a likely retribution target of the Nuwaubian Cult due to his past in shutting down their bizarre cult colony in his county and leading to the life sentence of their leader.

2) The last images of Russel Dermond at the supermarket reveal his striking resemblance to Sheriff Sills (sans mustache). Adding to this was Russel Dermond's short verbal interaction with someone at the supermarket Deli counter who may have mistaken his identity (much speculation on my part as to the interaction, however has the sheriff made any attempt to have that person step forward to identify themself?? If not why not? ).

Re MY Post #1029 above, Look at the videos, look at photo of Sheriff Sills wearing similar colored shirt. You have to click on the attachments for the video and two photos of Sheriff Sills and Russell Dermond.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

The motive is very absent in nearly all theories. I am not the first to suggest that the killings were some sort of revenge by the Nuwaubian Cult. However I am the first to suggest mistaken identity as the trigger. Read my post #1029 for my theory.

1) Sheriff Sills is a likely retribution target of the Nuwaubian Cult due to his past in shutting down their bizarre cult colony in his county and leading to the life sentence of their leader.

2) The last images of Russel Dermond at the supermarket reveal his striking resemblance to Sheriff Sills (sans mustache). Adding to this was Russel Dermond's short verbal interaction with someone at the supermarket Deli counter who may have mistaken his identity (much speculation on my part as to the interaction, however has the sheriff made any attempt to have that person step forward to identify themself?? If not why not? ).

Re MY Post #1029 above, Look at the videos, look at photo of Sheriff Sills wearing similar colored shirt. You have to click on the attachments for the video and two photos of Sheriff Sills and Russell Dermond.


View attachment 580994View attachment 580995

They do look alike. Were there any more details on that interaction in the market with the other person? Any description of the other person?

 

[concernedcitizen706]

Sheriff Sills is still the Sheriff in Putnam County SC. You have your Putnam Counties mixed up. "Gator" De Loach is in FloriDuh.

"the final coroner's report on this case said neither the murder nor the beheading took place in the garage. Sheriff Sills searched Putnam County thoroughly for the scene of the murder, but could not find it. A simple explanation would be that it was not in Putnam County. He would have never spent the money to do this extensive search had the coroner's report not said the crime was committed elsewhere"

Are there any more details on this? Do they say 'why' they don't think the murder was committed there?

And how can sheriff's sills search for the murder scene elsewhere?

The only possible explanation I can think of, was, that there was cadaver smell going away or towards the house. So they got some dogs to follow the trail. Obviously that was not successful, or they would have found the scene. So I guess the trail faded out. You know I think I remember what the Scott Peterson case in California, they had the dogs follow the cadaver scent of the body in the car, for many miles.

Hmm. I don't think there was rain during that time, which would wash away the scent. So I guess the sheriff would know which direction the scent trail went. Whether to the road, or to the dock.

Here's a possibility. The perp marched Russell down to the dock. Shot him in the back of the head there. Maybe Russell tried to escape, I don't know. And then left Russell lying there on the side of the dock for a little while, so that the cadaver scent built up. Maybe overnight. Because the perp was afraid somebody heard that and hid for a while. And then the perp did the beheading over the side of the dock later. There was less blood because the body had been sitting there for a while. But any blood there was, either went into the water or maybe the boat below.

However at some point, the perp did not put Russell's body on the boat, but instead moved him back to the garage. So this way the body went from the dock, back to the garage. However the sheriff might think, since the cadaver scent ended at the dock, that that meant that the body came from over the water by boat, and then to the garage. But no, the perp just traced back on the property. The body never left the property. It just 'looked' like it did, because it just went to the dock and back. Edit- and Shirley was probably tied up while all this was happening. Maybe she was already on the boat.

 

[STAGNUM]

They do look alike. Were there any more details on that interaction in the market with the other person? Any description of the other person?

I dont recall any discussion as to whom he interacted with at the market. It was very brief. You would think it would have been important as that person might have information.

 

[STAGNUM]

"the final coroner's report on this case said neither the murder nor the beheading took place in the garage. Sheriff Sills searched Putnam County thoroughly for the scene of the murder, but could not find it. A simple explanation would be that it was not in Putnam County. He would have never spent the money to do this extensive search had the coroner's report not said the crime was committed elsewhere"

Are there any more details on this? Do they say 'why' they don't think the murder was committed there?

And how can sheriff's sills search for the murder scene elsewhere?

The only possible explanation I can think of, was, that there was cadaver smell going away or towards the house. So they got some dogs to follow the trail. Obviously that was not successful, or they would have found the scene. So I guess the trail faded out. You know I think I remember what the Scott Peterson case in California, they had the dogs follow the cadaver scent of the body in the car, for many miles.

Hmm. I don't think there was rain during that time, which would wash away the scent. So I guess the sheriff would know which direction the scent trail went. Whether to the road, or to the dock.

Here's a possibility. The perp marched Russell down to the dock. Shot him in the back of the head there. Maybe Russell tried to escape, I don't know. And then left Russell lying there on the side of the dock for a little while, so that the cadaver scent built up. Maybe overnight. Because the perp was afraid somebody heard that and hid for a while. And then the perp did the beheading over the side of the dock later. There was less blood because the body had been sitting there for a while. But any blood there was, either went into the water or maybe the boat below.

However at some point, the perp did not put Russell's body on the boat, but instead moved him back to the garage. So this way the body went from the dock, back to the garage. However the sheriff might think, since the cadaver scent ended at the dock, that that meant that the body came from over the water by boat, and then to the garage. But no, the perp just traced back on the property. The body never left the property. It just 'looked' like it did, because it just went to the dock and back. Edit- and Shirley was probably tied up while all this was happening. Maybe she was already on the boat.

Where did you find this coroners report? There were some other aspects of this case lost to history. A possible link to a psychiatrist or psychologist who lived on the other side of the lake. Probably a red herring. I am leaning toward the mistaken identity aspect as the resemblance is striking and I think Sheriff Sills would be adverse to reopening that chapter (the cult). The beheading would make sense because the cult perps would possibly bring back the head as evidence of doing the deed. By the way, Wesley Snipes had an association with the cult, had some sort of related security organization and he is big on swords in his films. Not saying he had anything to do with this, but may be the mindset of the cult to use swords.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

Where did you find this coroners report? There were some other aspects of this case lost to history. A possible link to a psychiatrist or psychologist who lived on the other side of the lake. Probably a red herring. I am leaning toward the mistaken identity aspect as the resemblance is striking and I think Sheriff Sills would be adverse to reopening that chapter (the cult). The beheading would make sense because the cult perps would possibly bring back the head as evidence of doing the deed. By the way, Wesley Snipes had an association with the cult, had some sort of related security organization and he is big on swords in his films. Not saying he had anything to do with this, but may be the mindset of the cult to use swords.

No I was quoting you above, who was quoting S Simon on Mar 8. So S Simon said that about the coroner report, not me. I was wondering about it myself.