General Discussion and Theories #2

[Alethea Dice]

This is in response to Carli's post over in the Incinerator thread:

<rsbm>

The first description was from SB about the long-sleeved orange shirt was contained in the May 8 presser. The Toronto victim is the one who subsequently gave a description which referenced the short-sleeved orange shirt, thus he was able to see the tattoo.

Also, I believe the pictures issued were made by members of the public guessing what it might look like. To my knowledge, LE never issued a picture of the tattoo.

JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

Here are the videos of the press releases where the vehicle following TB's truck is discussed
In this first one, the topic is discussed beginning at about 11:15 of the video. MK says it looks like an SUV type vehicle, and states he does not want to be wrong, so IMO he does not wish to make a statement confirming what vehicle it is before he is 100 percent certain. Also note it is never stated that the video is grainy or of poor quality, just that there has not been confirmation of what the vehicle is at the time of the press conference.
Hamilton Police Media Conference - Investigative Briefing for Tuesday, May 14, 2013 (Afternoon) - YouTube

In this video, the statement is made right at the start confirming the vehicle following TB's truck IS the blue Yukon owned by DM
http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...lton_police_arrest_second_murder_suspect.html

Thanks for the links, Skatergirl. It's good to have a reminder. The impression of poor quality video, IMO, came from when Det. Kavanaugh states that they can't name the vehicle and have had a lot of people from different auto squads look at the video for them and can't (at that point still) identify it.

 

[Carli]

This is in response to Carli's post over in the Incinerator thread:

<rsbm>

The first description was from SB about the long-sleeved orange shirt was contained in the May 8 presser. The Toronto victim is the one who subsequently gave a description which referenced the short-sleeved orange shirt, thus he was able to see the tattoo.

Thanks, sillybilly. I didn't realize there were describing TWO different orange T-Shirts - one long sleeved and one short sleeved. The only links I've found on the subject seem to have them both morphed into one. If it isn't too much trouble, <modsnip>. Thanks again.

 

[Coldpizza]

Quite so. But then again, and I hate to sound like a broken record here, (is the contemporary phrase "broken MP3 player?") we've noted at some length that (a) the "ambition" tattoos are boxed but pics of DM show them as NOT boxed. (b) the tattoo is further up the arm than most people would wear a watch. (c) the tattoo is on BOTH arms, not just one and (d) the suspect is described as wearing a "long sleeved" orange t-shirt. and (e) while the description as reported is very unclear, it seems that SB did not see this tattoo.

So far we've danced around this by suggesting that maybe he framed his tattoo later than the last available pics (Why?) and that the Really Huge Guy first test drive saw only the tattoo on one arm (although he described DM as "heavily tattooed") and that he must have seen it because DM may have pushed up his sleeve (one sleeve?) while driving the vehicle, thus revealing the tattoo to his owner/passenger. Incidentally, we recall that (according to the tattoo picture issued) the somewhat faded, scripted word "Ambition" is written so that a person facing DM would be able to read it whereas he himself, or someone seated beside him seeing his arm on the steering wheel, would view the word as upside down. If you would care to write out the word "Ambition" in longhand on a piece of paper, then turn it upside down, is it easy to read?

Mind, I don't know the social protocol associated with tattoos. Maybe Really Huge Guy just asked DM "What's that on your arm?" to which DM replied "Oh, that says "ambition". It used to be even harder to read before I had the artist draw a frame around it."

BBM

Could you please link to the MSM article where this is stated? I wasn't following this case early on and may have missed it.

 

[Carli]

Also, I believe the pictures issued were made by members of the public guessing what it might look like. To my knowledge, LE never issued a picture of the tattoo.

JMO

Thanks Alethea. I always presumed it originated with LE. Do we actually know where this picture came from, then? If SB never saw the tattoo, the field is narrowed, isn't it? Then again, the picture seems to differ from the tattoos DM appears to have, so this picture is rather a puzzle, isn't it?

 

[Carli]

This is in response to Carli's post over in the Incinerator thread:

<rsbm>

The first description was from SB about the long-sleeved orange shirt was contained in the May 8 presser. The Toronto victim is the one who subsequently gave a description which referenced the short-sleeved orange shirt, thus he was able to see the tattoo.

Kudos sillybilly. I already discovered that once and promptly completely forgot it again. Quite correct the alleged murdered DM apparently has both a short sleeve orange T-shirt and a long sleeved one. My bad.

 

[Carli]

BBM

Could you please link to the MSM article where this is stated? I wasn't following this case early on and may have missed it.

Fairly early on MSM's "heavily tattooed" reports seemed to disappear to be replaced by "multiple tattoos". Nevertheless, I think I grabbed a copy of the earlier description and I'll dig it out of my drive in a minute. Meanwhile...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9523703&postcount=494http://

(I also happen to notice from these links that the orange t-shirt seems to gain and lose sleeves from time to time.)

 

[bessie]

Fairly early on MSM's "heavily tattooed" reports seemed to disappear to be replaced by "multiple tattoos". Nevertheless, I think I grabbed a copy of the earlier description and I'll dig it out of my drive in a minute. Meanwhile...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9523703&postcount=494http://

(I also happen to notice from these links that the orange t-shirt seems to gain and lose sleeves from time to time.)

rsbm

I don't find that so odd. The explanation, imo, is just as you, yourself, described,

I'm willing to accept that DM has a short sleeved and a long sleeved orange shirt and he switched between them over the two days - afternoon and evening wear, perhaps? I'm even willing, though I think it's a stretch, to accept that a stranger would be able to read DM's arm, if for no other reason than the fact that the tat doesn't say "Mom" or "Jenny 4 ever" or any of the other homilies people scratch on their skins.

 

[Blomquist]

Kudos sillybilly. I already discovered that once and promptly completely forgot it again. Quite correct the alleged murdered DM apparently has both a short sleeve orange T-shirt and a long sleeved one. My bad.

I didnt see DM wearing a bright orange T shirt in his 2012 pics. I didnt see him wear any very brightly coloured T shirts to be honest. He seems to prefer less flamboyant colours judging by all the pics I viewed of him on FB. Even when i googled images of him I couldn't find any bright coloured shirts.... So to say he has TWO bright orange ones and wears them on consecutive days seems rather odd to me.... JMO

He seems to prefer pale pink, white, black or grey from my observations JMO

There is a deep green (not a bright green) T Shirt that he is wearing at the hangar a few years back...that seems to be the most vibrant choice of T shirt I could find JMO

 

[lanman]

I didnt see DM wearing a bright orange T shirt in his 2012 pics. I didnt see him wear any very brightly coloured T shirts to be honest. He seems to prefer less flamboyant colours judging by all the pics I viewed of him on FB. Even when i googled images of him I couldn't find any bright coloured shirts.... So to say he has TWO bright orange ones and wears them on consecutive days seems rather odd to me.... JMO

He seems to prefer pale pink, white, black or grey from my observations JMO

There is a deep green (not a bright green) T Shirt that he is wearing at the hangar a few years back...that seems to be the most vibrant choice of T shirt I could find JMO

Well he better get used to wearing orange

"A clean-cut Millard appeared calm and collected as he appeared on a TV screen, clad in an orange prison jump suit."

http://www.thepeterboroughexaminer.com/2013/06/13/tim-bosma-murder-suspects-appear-in-court

 

[Blomquist]

Well he better get used to wearing orange

"A clean-cut Millard appeared calm and collected as he appeared on a TV screen, clad in an orange prison jump suit."

http://www.thepeterboroughexaminer.com/2013/06/13/tim-bosma-murder-suspects-appear-in-court

For the time being I guess.... JMO

 

[Sillybilly]

I didnt see DM wearing a bright orange T shirt in his 2012 pics. I didnt see him wear any very brightly coloured T shirts to be honest. He seems to prefer less flamboyant colours judging by all the pics I viewed of him on FB. Even when i googled images of him I couldn't find any bright coloured shirts.... So to say he has TWO bright orange ones and wears them on consecutive days seems rather odd to me.... JMO

He seems to prefer pale pink, white, black or grey from my observations JMO

There is a deep green (not a bright green) T Shirt that he is wearing at the hangar a few years back...that seems to be the most vibrant choice of T shirt I could find JMO

So where'd you come up with the adjective "bright"? It has never been said the shirts were "bright" orange ... simply orange.

 

[Blomquist]

So where'd you come up with the adjective "bright"? It has never been said the shirts were "bright" orange ... simply orange.

I have yet to see any orange that is not a bright colour...orange is a bright colour as is yellow IMO MOO

There is also red which is bright as opposed to burgundy which is more muted in my IMO.... Do you know of any thing orange that is not bright? MOO

http://www.google.ca/search?q=orang...i_ygHa-IDIBg&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1138&bih=530

 

[Sillybilly]

I have yet to see any orange that is not a bright colour...orange is a bright colour as is yellow IMO MOO

There is also red which is bright as opposed to burgundy which is more muted in my IMO.... Do you know of any thing orange that is not bright? MOO

Sure ... for example burnt orange, ochre. There is also barn red as opposed to tomato red; chartreuse or lime as opposed to olive, hot pink vs society pink, etc.

[ame="http://www.google.ca/search?site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1280&bih=642&q=colour+wheel+orange&oq=colour+wheel+orange&gs_l=img.3..0l7j0i24l3.9212.12512.0.12628.19.16.0.0.0.0.518.2556.4j3j2j1j1j1.12.0....0...1ac.1.19.img.f323nVxsIjo#site=imghp&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=shades+of+orange&oq=shades+of+orange&gs_l=img.3..0l10.240260.242525.2.242700.16.13.0.0.0.0.439.2146.1j3j2j2j1.9.0....0...1c.1.19.img.zvBGCnutRPU&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.48705608,d.aWc&fp=c8e7910c63de4838&biw=1280&bih=642"]colour wheel orange - Google Search[/ame]



This is just to keep the record straight. When folks start putting their own spin on something, it gets carried on through the threads and can result in confusion down the road. It did NOT say "bright orange".

 

[bessie]

Don't forget a zillion shades of peach and coral.

 

[Blomquist]

Don't forget a zillion shades of peach and coral.

But we are talking about orange !

I do agree peaches and corals are beautiful too....

 

[Blomquist]

Sure ... for example burnt orange, ochre. There is also barn red as opposed to tomato red; chartreuse or lime as opposed to olive, hot pink vs society pink, etc.

colour wheel orange - Google Search


This is just to keep the record straight. When folks start putting their own spin on something, it gets carried on through the threads and can result in confusion down the road. It did NOT say "bright orange".

Well IMO orange is bright. It wasn't an ochre shirt or a burn't orange which are shades as opposed to colours in my opinion... but I guess its all about opinion right....

So the person who came to test drive the truck was wearing an orange shirt ...either long sleeved or short sleeved depending on what you read..... IMO the shirt must have stood out as orange is a bright colour MOO

 

[swedie]

I'm sorry (again), but I just don't get it........
So the possible theory being suggested is that DM has been framed by OC/someone who made him and his mate go to a test drive on foot (twice, first test drive confirmed by LE) and the prospective seller was murdered to set DM up for a fall, (very complicated way to set someone up if you ask me), and now DM and MS are both in prison exercising their right to be silent because they are both afraid for their lives and or their families lives. Is that the general gist of the alternative theory ?

RIP Tim Bosma

I agree ellie, I don't get the whole OC theory nor do I buy it. I don't see it as a "Whodunnit" movie plot, I see it as a cut and dry, true life case where at least two guys who believed they were above the law, who had carried out other criminal deeds in the past, and had not been caught prior to TB's case decided to step up the ante. For some bizarre reason, maybe boredom, drugs/alcohol, they decide it would be a great idea to steal a Dodge Ram truck by taking it for a test drive. They tried to get rid of the evidence, but before they could, they got caught. IMHO sometimes we try and spin a theory but the obvious is just too obvious and we cannot believe people can be so dumb and evil and for no rational reason (in our normal minds), do what they are accused of. It just seems so irrational for someone such as DM with his wealth(?), supposed intelligence, to do such evil things. Why? Because the guy has money? Does he? If so, that may mean nothing to a psychopathy or someone who enjoys the thrill of committing crimes.

The truth is, it happens. Why? Whether drugs/alcohol played a part in it, or for greed or for thrill. Some people are evil and do sickening things. The fact that DM and MS are still in prison (regardless of their right to remaining silent), speaks volumes to me. Yes many people have been wrongly convicted also but IMO there is too much circumstantial evidence pointing a finger at these two. A huge red flag for me is the guy who took DM and MS on a test drive the day before and SB being witnesses.That is enough for me to believe DM and MS are exactly where they belong. I am not trying to convince anyone their theory is wrong, I just see it as it appears to me and this is just MOO. The good, old cliche; "it is what it is".

 

[swedie]

I personally don't see what all the fuss is about with the tatoo. If it turns out the DM's tattoo actually says "Ambidextrous" and has a circle around it, it doesnt matter. What matters is after they arrest him they found TB's body on his farm and the truck at his mothers house. They obviously have the right guy IMO. We don't know what they have on MS so I can't comment on that.

Well it is important as it pertains to evidence. Very important evidence IMO. I do get what you're saying though Ian. What is the most important evidence is are faces. That is what I believe got DM and MS arrested as I stated in my above post. Regarding tattoos, I have known people who have had tattoos "touched up" and more design added to them. DM may have had a tattoo done recently somewhere else on his body and decided to redo and add to the one on his wrist while he was at it. MOO.

 

[Blomquist]

Well it is important as it pertains to evidence. Very important evidence IMO. I do get what you're saying though Ian. What is the most important evidence is are faces. That is what I believe got DM and MS arrested as I stated in my above post. Regarding tattoos, I have known people who have had tattoos "touched up" and more design added to them. DM may have had a tattoo done recently somewhere else on his body and decided to redo and add to the one on his wrist while he was at it. MOO.

So from your post you are willing to believe that DM could have added more to his tattoo(s) but cannot see that there may be more to this case ? To a point I agree with your theory in the post before this quoted one...except I think there is more to it...I think more people are involved.... and I think one or possibly two people are a lot less involved than is the current popular belief. That is JMO .... MOO