General Discussion and Theories #2

[Alethea Dice]

Was there any indication of the type of work that was being done?
Cutting grass? House Maintenance? No digging or washing anything? Just wondering if there was some kind of clean up happening?

This is all I can find and all I remember.

Earlier this week, Millard's home was raided by Toronto police, neighbours said. He lived there alone after his father died six months ago. He was last seen by neighbours Wednesday evening working outside on his house with a few other men.

http://www.cbc.ca/hamilton/news/story/2013/05/12/hamilton-bosma-mother.html

 

[Blomquist]

I don't think we know where the truck was. I think it's mostly assumed that it was at the hangar because of the trailer. It seems like a logical place to store such a big trailer.

JMO

Yes it does.... unless someone had taken it for a specific purpose, and had it waiting close by. As yet we do not know how TB arrived at the farm either... truck, trailer or other vehicle.... gosh still so many questions..... we need a war room...lol.....

 

[Juballee]

IMO, DM wanted the trailer with the stolen truck out of the hangar ASAP. IMO it would have been pretty hard to 'chop up the truck' in the hangar when you don't know who might stop in (ie airport manager, AS - who knows?!). In regard to moving the trailer, obviously DM wouldn't have wanted to be caught red-handed with the truck in his possesion, thus he would do it after dark. Most likely he didn't expect the neighbours to pay much attention to it, and at first I don't believe they did. It was only after news broke of DM's arrest that they got together and decided they should make LE aware of the eyesore in MB's driveway. And IMO, maybe the working on the yard earliier that same evening was to try and establish an alibi, making sure the neighbours saw/heard him. JMHO

Why would it have been harder to chop that truck in the hanger than any of the other vehicles they are accused if chopping there? The risk is the same every time, really, AS or anyone could have showed up at any time all along, which would have made it a poor choice for a chop shop, in my opinion.

In my opinion, when you have a group of friends together, you already have each other for your alibi, you don't need neighbours to notice that. And again, why assume that he would be so careful in some respects, ie, making multiple alibis for moving the truck, and be so careless in other respects, ie, leaving an identifiable body on his own property when he had a means to fully obliterate it?

For that matter, why hide the truck at his mother's at all? Why not park it in one (or two) of the vacant parking spaces at his multiple unit dwelling, where each tenant would think it belongs to another tenant, and no neighbours would really take notice as things always come and go in rental buildings. I can hear people saying, 'well, he wouldn't hide it there because he felt like the police were onto him and he thought that they wouldn't connect him to his mother.' But if he thought police were going to possibly investigate him and look around his properties, why would he leave a body on another property? Why not leave it in MS's driveway and share the possible heat, it is not like his neighbours seemed to care as much what happened at that house. Also, it took the police about twice as long to find MS as it did to find DM, his house would have been a better choice, in my opinion, after all, if anyone can find your mother's house in a jiffy, even if she's changed her name, it would be the police, I reckon. But it took LE almost an extra week to track down his friend.

 

[redheart]

Why would it have been harder to chop that truck in the hanger than any of the other vehicles they are accused if chopping there? The risk is the same every time, really, AS or anyone could have showed up at any time all along, which would have made it a poor choice for a chop shop, in my opinion.

In my opinion, when you have a group of friends together, you already have each other for your alibi, you don't need neighbours to notice that. And again, why assume that he would be so careful in some respects, ie, making multiple alibis for moving the truck, and be so careless in other respects, ie, leaving an identifiable body on his own property when he had a means to fully obliterate it?

For that matter, why hide the truck at his mother's at all? Why not park it in one (or two) of the vacant parking spaces at his multiple unit dwelling, where each tenant would think it belongs to another tenant, and no neighbours would really take notice as things always come and go in rental buildings. I can hear people saying, 'well, he wouldn't hide it there because he felt like the police were onto him and he thought that they wouldn't connect him to his mother.' But if he thought police were going to possibly investigate him and look around his properties, why would he leave a body on another property? Why not leave it in MS's driveway and share the possible heat, it is not like his neighbours seemed to care as much what happened at that house. Also, it took the police about twice as long to find MS as it did to find DM, his house would have been a better choice, in my opinion, after all, if anyone can find your mother's house in a jiffy, even if she's changed her name, it would be the police, I reckon. But it took LE almost an extra week to track down his friend.

The difference is that pictures of TB's truck were plastered all over Ontario - in physical locations, on every type of media. And TB's truck was associated with a missing man - that's not the kind of thing you would ignore if you happened to see it in someone's hangar.

 

[dizzy1]

Why would it have been harder to chop that truck in the hanger than any of the other vehicles they are accused if chopping there? The risk is the same every time, really, AS or anyone could have showed up at any time all along, which would have made it a poor choice for a chop shop, in my opinion.

In my opinion, when you have a group of friends together, you already have each other for your alibi, you don't need neighbours to notice that. And again, why assume that he would be so careful in some respects, ie, making multiple alibis for moving the truck, and be so careless in other respects, ie, leaving an identifiable body on his own property when he had a means to fully obliterate it?

For that matter, why hide the truck at his mother's at all? Why not park it in one (or two) of the vacant parking spaces at his multiple unit dwelling, where each tenant would think it belongs to another tenant, and no neighbours would really take notice as things always come and go in rental buildings. I can hear people saying, 'well, he wouldn't hide it there because he felt like the police were onto him and he thought that they wouldn't connect him to his mother.' But if he thought police were going to possibly investigate him and look around his properties, why would he leave a body on another property? Why not leave it in MS's driveway and share the possible heat, it is not like his neighbours seemed to care as much what happened at that house. Also, it took the police about twice as long to find MS as it did to find DM, his house would have been a better choice, in my opinion, after all, if anyone can find your mother's house in a jiffy, even if she's changed her name, it would be the police, I reckon. But it took LE almost an extra week to track down his friend.

BBM
I will answer with MHO one more time. Most likely while in the process of trying to 'obliterate the body', they ran into an unforeseen roadblock. Most likely they had to work by night, as you never know when a 'nosy neighbor' or a trespasser might show up. IMO, there was only so many nights they had to try and complete all these dastardly tasks, especially once the tattoo description came out (I believe it was 3 days after TB went missing). I doubt in the beginning DM thought LE was going to link him to the crime, but once the tattoo description came out, he most likely panicked. They also had that pesky truck to deal with as well, and the heat was pretty intense with MSM posting pictures of it all over the news, not to mention TB's family and friends who were very busy making sure word got out as well. Lucky for LE (and maybe not so lucky for the perps), there were a lot of alert citizens helping in the search for TB and his truck. In fact, in the beginning the tips were pouring in so fast, LE had a hard time keeping up with them. IMO, they just ran out of time, plain and simple. JMO :deadhorse:

 

[Juballee]

The difference is that pictures of TB's truck were plastered all over Ontario - in physical locations, on every type of media. And TB's truck was associated with a missing man - that's not the kind of thing you would ignore if you happened to see it in someone's hangar.

Black is the most common colour for that vehicle, which would be why people reported sightings of it all over, so many that I agree the police probably had a hard time keeping up to them. If they were responsible for stealing the Harley, they had to also have had a black pick up, from what I remember, so seeing one there under repair wouldn't have seemed odd to anyone who had been there before apparently.

If they needed to hide it, DM could have just taken the vins from his ram and switched to them, no one was looking for a red ram. They could have chopped it at the hanger and then thrown a tarp over it if anyone walked in, really they could have even done half of the chop job while it was still hidden in a trailer, in case anyone showed up. But I don't think that they were worried about anyone just showing up, since deliveries were canceled, and I imagine that there are locks on the doors there.

The point I am trying to make though, is that if they already had a hanger full of stolen vehicles, one more isn't going to make a difference, especially once it is chopped into parts with any vins removed. It doesn't matter that police were looking for a black pick up, because if you believe the media, that place was full of vehicles that the police were also looking for as stolen vehicles. Why move one hot vehicle if you think police may come looking for it, but leave behind evidence that supports a theory that there was a whole host of stolen vehicles, that just doesn't make sense to me. It would be like them hiding one body but not worrying about other, older bodies lying around, because those people weren't talked up in the media.

Again, stolen vehicle plus chop shop equals no problem getting rid of the vehicle.
But if you eliminate the chop shop from the picture, you also eliminate the only shred of a motive, in my opinion.

 

[dizzy1]

Black is the most common colour for that vehicle, which would be why people reported sightings of it all over, so many that I agree the police probably had a hard time keeping up to them. If they were responsible for stealing the Harley, they had to also have had a black pick up, from what I remember, so seeing one there under repair wouldn't have seemed odd to anyone who had been there before apparently.

If they needed to hide it, DM could have just taken the vins from his ram and switched to them, no one was looking for a red ram. They could have chopped it at the hanger and then thrown a tarp over it if anyone walked in, really they could have even done half of the chop job while it was still hidden in a trailer, in case anyone showed up. But I don't think that they were worried about anyone just showing up, since deliveries were canceled, and I imagine that there are locks on the doors there.

The point I am trying to make though, is that if they already had a hanger full of stolen vehicles, one more isn't going to make a difference, especially once it is chopped into parts with any vins removed. It doesn't matter that police were looking for a black pick up, because if you believe the media, that place was full of vehicles that the police were also looking for as stolen vehicles. Why move one hot vehicle if you think police may come looking for it, but leave behind evidence that supports a theory that there was a whole host of stolen vehicles, that just doesn't make sense to me. It would be like them hiding one body but not worrying about other, older bodies lying around, because those people weren't talked up in the media.

Again, stolen vehicle plus chop shop equals no problem getting rid of the vehicle.
But if you eliminate the chop shop from the picture, you also eliminate the only shred of a motive, in my opinion.

BBM

This stolen vehicle was different because it belonged to the victim of a highly publicized, missing, yet-to-be-found, murder victim. :scared: :banghead: JMO

 

[Archangel7]

Black is the most common colour for that vehicle, which would be why people reported sightings of it all over, so many that I agree the police probably had a hard time keeping up to them. If they were responsible for stealing the Harley, they had to also have had a black pick up, from what I remember, so seeing one there under repair wouldn't have seemed odd to anyone who had been there before apparently.

If they needed to hide it, DM could have just taken the vins from his ram and switched to them, no one was looking for a red ram. They could have chopped it at the hanger and then thrown a tarp over it if anyone walked in, really they could have even done half of the chop job while it was still hidden in a trailer, in case anyone showed up. But I don't think that they were worried about anyone just showing up, since deliveries were canceled, and I imagine that there are locks on the doors there.

The point I am trying to make though, is that if they already had a hanger full of stolen vehicles, one more isn't going to make a difference, especially once it is chopped into parts with any vins removed. It doesn't matter that police were looking for a black pick up, because if you believe the media, that place was full of vehicles that the police were also looking for as stolen vehicles. Why move one hot vehicle if you think police may come looking for it, but leave behind evidence that supports a theory that there was a whole host of stolen vehicles, that just doesn't make sense to me. It would be like them hiding one body but not worrying about other, older bodies lying around, because those people weren't talked up in the media.

Again, stolen vehicle plus chop shop equals no problem getting rid of the vehicle.
But if you eliminate the chop shop from the picture, you also eliminate the only shred of a motive, in my opinion.

Obviously there is a big difference wrt priorities, in a vehicle that is stolen/missing, is covered by insurance AND nobody was hurt, and one that is stolen/missing coupled with a missing person during a test drive and murder.

 

[bessie]

The difference is that pictures of TB's truck were plastered all over Ontario - in physical locations, on every type of media. And TB's truck was associated with a missing man - that's not the kind of thing you would ignore if you happened to see it in someone's hangar.

I agree. IMO, the perps grew nervous after SB's news conference on Thursday, May 9. According to neighbors, the trailer showed up in DM's mother's driveway late that night.

Wife of Tim Bosma pleads for his safe return

May 9, 2013 3:50 pm
By James Armstrong Global News
Bosma’s spouse relayed to police the two men may have been from Toronto.

Jennifer Pagliaro News reporter, Published on Tue May 14 2013
A neighbour who lives next door to the Tinsmith Crt. address where the trailer was found said it first appeared in the driveway late Thursday...

 

[Archangel7]

I agree. IMO, the perps grew nervous after SB's news conference on Thursday, May 9. According to neighbors, the trailer showed up in DM's mother's driveway late that night.

Wife of Tim Bosma pleads for his safe return

Yep. Anytime that much quality info is disbursed that quickly and effectively to that many of the public, a couple of things happen...

1) the previously unknown perp(s) in the nefarious event become worried and sometimes make mistakes plus their ability to move freely and unseen within the public is thwarted and is what you alluded to.

2) 10s of thousands of people are actively involved and watching, reporting tips, etc.

It's why Amber Alerts are so successful.

I commend SB, family, and friends for their ability to quickly mobilize, get this in front of the public and then keep it fresh in the public mind thru several 24 hr news cycles.

 

[Alethea Dice]

I agree. IMO, the perps grew nervous after SB's news conference on Thursday, May 9. According to neighbors, the trailer showed up in DM's mother's driveway late that night.

Wife of Tim Bosma pleads for his safe return

Odd that the same paper, two different reporters and two days apart, report different days that the trailer showed up. This one says the neighbour said it arrived while they were watching the hockey game on Wednesday night.

Either very sloppy reporting or one of the neighbours got the days mixed up.

JMO

 

[Archangel7]

IIRC I've seen it mentioned from Wed. night(once) to Thurs night(twice) to an article later in that month(possible the 20th) referring to the "last Thursday" sudden appearance of the trailer, which I guess would make it's arrival off by at least a week?

They report it and we the public get to choose whatever date suits us. lol

 

[swedie]

I suspect DM thought he could take the truck to his mother's house and chop it in her garage. Did he know she was away on holidays? I have no idea if she was but hypothetically speaking, say she was. Mom's garage would have been the ideal place to hide out with a hot truck. Maybe she use to have a key hidden outside her home for her house and DM was aware of this, or maybe she had a garage door access keypad and DM knew the number to it, but she changed the number leaving DM unaware. So instead of driving aimlessly around with the trailer and a hot truck inside, he decided to leave it at his mom's until he could figure out a plan to get rid of it.

As far as chopping it in the hangar...suppose he had friends who were working on their vehicles in the hangar and had access to letting themselves into the building. DM would have a lot of explaining to do if he was caught chopping TB's truck or the friends found it in there. Although it's been mentioned by Kav there's a certain group he hangs around with, does mean he meant they were all involved in auto theft or chopping vehicles. Certainly there would have been one or two who would not have been afraid to go to LE should they have found a stolen truck of a missing man in the hangar. IMHO I don't think DM and MS's friends were aware of what those two jail birds were up to. I bet it was DM and MS's dirty little secret.

Although they had three days to dispose of evidence before DM's arrest, once the news broke the following day about the missing man and his truck, the perps would become very cautious in their movements. Say TB's body was in the incinerator and his truck in the trailer DM and MS believed the main evidence (truck and Tim) was hidden. All MOO

 

[Juballee]

BBM

This stolen vehicle was different because it belonged to the victim of a highly publicized, missing, yet-to-be-found, murder victim. :scared: :banghead: JMO

My point is that if they are moving a vehicle because they think police might come looking for it, they would also make an effort to move the other, although less famous, none the less still stolen, vehicles from the place where they think the police might look. Otherwise, if it was just a matter of keeping it out of sight from prying eyes, they could have just kept it in the trailer in the hanger where it was less likely to be seen on a very nervy road trip, and they would have more control over who had access to see the outside of the trailer, in a place where apparently it wouldn't have seemed so out of place. I'm sorry, but that's just logical to me.

 

[Blomquist]

BBM

This stolen vehicle was different because it belonged to the victim of a highly publicized, missing, yet-to-be-found, murder victim. :scared: :banghead: JMO

The chop shop is probably the only `motive` for stealing the truck, that actually makes sense...if the truck was the target.

Putting other plates from another black (the one allegedly used to steal the Harley) truck onto TB`s truck would have given the truck a degree of obscurity and enough time and anonymity to get the truck out of there, IF DM and MS are involved in murder (which I doubt).

The remaining black truck could have been left as vehicle being worked on, alongside the hundreds (I mean ten) of others that were found there..... JMO

 

[bessie]

IIRC I've seen it mentioned from Wed. night(once) to Thurs night(twice) to an article later in that month(possible the 20th) referring to the "last Thursday" sudden appearance of the trailer, which I guess would make it's arrival off by at least a week?

They report it and we the public get to choose whatever date suits us. lol

True dat! Considering that at least one report is likely to be accurate, I choose to accept Mr. C's version since he's the one who contacted LE. Be it Wednesday or Thursday, I still maintain that the decision to stash the truck at MB's residence was made out of desperation because the situation was reaching a boiling point. JMO

 

[bessie]

My point is that if they are moving a vehicle because they think police might come looking for it, they would also make an effort to move the other, although less famous, none the less still stolen, vehicles from the place where they think the police might look. Otherwise, if it was just a matter of keeping it out of sight from prying eyes, they could have just kept it in the trailer in the hanger where it was less likely to be seen on a very nervy road trip, and they would have more control over who had access to see the outside of the trailer, in a place where apparently it wouldn't have seemed so out of place. I'm sorry, but that's just logical to me.

Hmm...I wonder if they did move other vehicles. Perhaps that's why the chop shop's inventory amounted to "no more than ten" vehicles.

 

[Blomquist]

I agree. IMO, the perps grew nervous after SB's news conference on Thursday, May 9. According to neighbors, the trailer showed up in DM's mother's driveway late that night.

Actually Bessie...the trailer showed up late Weds night from my recollection.... May 8th JMO

as per Maple Leafs game with Boston Bruins I believe....

http://www.hockey-reference.com/boxscores/201305080TOR.html

 

[Juballee]

Hmm...I wonder if they did move other vehicles. Perhaps that's why the chop shop's inventory amounted to "no more than ten" vehicles.

I've never worked in a chop shop, but to me even 10 sounds like too large an inventory for a chop shop to have hanging around, I would be interested to know what the actual number of stolen vehicles amounts to, and of course who the trailer was registered to after the Harley was stolen. But again, my point is that, unless DM was caught in the act of still moving stolen vehicles when he was arrested, he should have gotten them ALL out of there when if he felt the heat was on. I mean, the Harley was already in a trailer, how hard would it have been to move that, to the farm even, it they thought perhaps that the farm was a safe enough place to hide a body.

 

[swedie]

Last Sunday,police cars swarmed a quiet street in Kleinburg surrounding a large black covered trailer parked on a driveway . Neighbours said it had appeared days earlier, on Wednesday night while they watched the Leafs lose their fourth playoff game.
http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/05/18/tim_bosma_the_painful_search_for_a_missing_man.html

Frank Cianfarani spotted a large trailer parked in his neighbour’s driveway when he returned home Thursday night from an engagement in Toronto.

Mr. Cianfarani talked to neighbours and they decided to call police.

http://www.yorkregion.com/news-stor...rs-shocked-by-discovery-of-tim-bosma-s-truck/

Leafs game started at 7pm ran until approximately 9pm
http://mapleleafs.nhl.com/club/app