General Discussion and Theories #3

[Alethea Dice]

I did read privileged discussions with the meaning of discussions taking place on a "without prejudice" basis, which is different. Sorry it's been awhile since that lingo rested somewhere near the top of my head. Notwithstanding the misunderstanding, I still think this is a way of ruling out any chances of him being a serial killer before they entertain any plea deals. The timing is right. Does anyone else think that is possible?

Regarding your point bolded above, I find it interesting that someone like AM could be cleared in the TB case so early on but LB's parents could be considered suspects in their daughter's disappearance after all this time. I guess there was some pretty strong evidence (or something) in his favour.

I suppose the only way we will find out anything about the farm search is if DM is charged with something.

rbbm

I agree and this thought occurred to me as well. DM is being tried in MSM and by the public for possibly two other murders. The fact that he is currently being investigated in these other cases would more than likely be brought up by the Crown in their arguments against his release. Couple this with how few accuseds are granted bail anyway with first degree murder charges, and it becomes pointless to even request a bail hearing at this point.

JMO

 

[Snoofo]

And we do have to remember that these are two different LE agencies investigating two different cases.

"Aye, there's the rub!"

We also have to remember these two forces, or perhaps it is just these particular homicide teams, don't sound like they are besties, at least not back in May/June:

I'm not saying Hamilton police need or expect a pat on the back from Toronto for the hard work they've done and the results they've achieved in the month since Bosma disappeared. I'm more concerned that Toronto doesn't seem to be working with Hamilton's detectives.

Hamilton police learned Toronto was at the farm through the media.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/3255379-clairmont-where-questions-trump-answers/

Maybe they made up now.

I know, it's so unfair to criticize....

 

[Archangel7]

Actually, wouldn't Hamilton's only jurisdictional work with Toronto be on the TB case and that the suspects were from TO jurisdiction right?

The LB, DM tie along with the Ayr farm would be Waterloo and Toronto right?

So why would Hamilton care if TO and Waterloo were working a different case concerning their(TO & Waterloo) respective/combined jurisdictions?

Or more to the point, why would TO formally notify Hamilton that they would be working in Waterloo jurisdiction?

Maybe I have the agencies' borders wrong, aren't the players TPS(TO), HPD(Hamilton), WRPS(Waterloo) and BPD(brantford) and possibly OPP?

I can envision some potential issues in this kind of multi-jurisdictional crime but it would make sense for the OPP to foresee, oversee and coordinate this kind of protocol. However the G20 wasn't much testament to combined executable knowledge, protocol, efficiencies and execution was it?

 

[Woodland]

Juballee, I understand what you're saying and I don't know how many different ways it can be stated so that others will. And I also think you're right that it can't be answered or explained.

The first search of the farm by Hamilton LE on May 13th was searching for TB. The warrant at the time obviously included the barn since, according to JR's tweets, they searched it for 25 minutes.



During that search, they seem to have found TB's body fairly quickly. At that time, however, they did not yet know how he had died or where he was killed. Logic would tell some of us that, because that information was still unknown, they would have searched the barn more thoroughly looking for clues of whether he had been killed in the barn or perhaps for a murder weapon. The unknown is whether they didn't feel anything in the barn would be significant, or whether they didn't see the barrels for some reason, or whether they needed a more detailed search warrant to do that and it was either not applied for or not granted.

The other two searches by Toronto LE were for LB and are more understandable. The first one, at the end of May, was likely for a specific area that the tip lead them to. They found nothing and left. Without further evidence linking DM to her disappearance, they may have been restricted to the area identified in the tip.

Whatever lead Toronto LE back to the farm for a second search in regards to LB, it must have pointed them more directly to the barn. The barrels still don't seem to have been that much of a concern, since they actually found them on Monday, but they weren't required to be tested until Friday.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/09/17/barrels_on_dellen_millards_farm_not_relevant_to_missing_woman_case_police_say.html

Actually, this article says:



http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/barrels-removed-from-millard-farm-as-chemical-response-team-called-in-1.1453489

And we do have to remember that these are two different LE agencies investigating two different cases.

It would be interesting to learn if anything was found in this last search with regards to LB. If nothing was found again, it starts to look like they're being sent on some wild goose chases.

JMO

BBM

Wondering how the highlighted sentences above can be stated as fact.

Are there links to what HPD knew and when they knew it?
Links to what TPS knew and when?
Links to when the barrels were first noticed and by which LE Agency?

To date nothing backing these statements up has been posted so will have to go with it's all speculation - hopefully this 'info' will not be quoted as fact by someone before it's verified. Jmo.

 

[Alethea Dice]

BBM

Wondering how the highlighted sentences above can be stated as fact.

Are there links to what HPD knew and when they knew it?

Announced that TB was found on May 14 (quite possibly found May 13 JMO) - http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/05/14/tim-bosma-found-dead/

Also May 14 -

Kavanagh said he believes Bosma was killed shortly after his disappearance. The coroner’s office has yet to determine a cause of death.

- http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/05/15/tim_bosma_murder_man_was_targeted_police_say.html

May 16 -

He adds that police have still not determined where Bosma was killed.

- http://www.bramptonguardian.com/news-story/3116211-tim-bosma-incinerator-found-at-farm-owned-by-millard/

Hamilton LE search of farm regarding TB started on Monday, May 13, and was expected to end on Friday, May 17 (which I believe it did JMO) -

Officers continue to scour the North Dumfries farm property but will likely finish there on Friday, Kavanagh says.
Their search for Tim Bosma led to the Roseville Road farm on Monday

- http://www.bramptonguardian.com/news-story/3116211-tim-bosma-incinerator-found-at-farm-owned-by-millard/

BBM

Links to what TPS knew and when?

First TPS search regarding LB, when they dug up the field, was May 28 until May 30th -

Const. Tony Vella says homicide investigators finished going through the Waterloo Region property owned by 27-year-old Dellen Millard on Thursday.

He says the search started Tuesday in connection with the 2012 disappearance of Laura Babcock, a Toronto woman who has been linked to Millard, and the death of Millard's father, which was ruled a suicide.

- http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/toronto-police-finish-search-of-millard-farm-1.1305900

Nothing found -

Carbone says Toronto police obtained new information that led to their dig, during which "no evidence was located."

- http://www.simcoe.com/news-story/3255379-questions-trump-answers-at-toronto-police-news-conference/

Second TPS search - week of September 16th -

Toronto police spent a week scouring the Waterloo Region property, with much of their focus on the derelict barn where they found at least 54 barrels of unknown substances.

On Friday night officers packed up and left the farm, as their search warrant had expired, said Constable Victor Kwong.

- http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4082720-dellen-millard-farm-search-ends-laura-babcock-mystery-continues/

Links to when the barrels were first noticed and by which LE Agency?

Link was already provided. Again...

The head of the Toronto homicide squad, Staff Insp. Greg McLane, said police actually found the barrels on Monday, when they began executing a search warrant. He said the OPP’s specialized team was not required to test the barrels until Friday as part of the “examination process.”

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2013/09/17/barrels_on_dellen_millards_farm_not_relevant_to_missing_woman_case_police_say.html


Anything else is JMO (Just My Opinion) as stated at the end of my post.

Hope this helps.

 

[Archangel7]

Any theories on two holsters purchased on eBay?

Was DM into firearms?

Especially given the somewhat uniqueness of the two models that fit their respective holsters?

Without some specific exceptions they would be prohibited inside Canada.

 

[cansleuther]

Any theories on two holsters purchased on eBay?

Accessories for a Halloween costume?

 

[Sillybilly]

Accessories for a Halloween costume?

Not very scarey ... hidden under an armpit?

 

[cansleuther]

Not very scarey ... hidden under an armpit?

Maybe he's a fan of Boardwalk Empire?

 

[Murphys_Law]

Maybe he's a fan of Boardwalk Empire?

Or just a snappy snappy dresser.

 

[lanman]

Or just a snappy snappy dresser.

...or a serial killer.

 

[Snoofo]

Actually, wouldn't Hamilton's only jurisdictional work with Toronto be on the TB case and that the suspects were from TO jurisdiction right?

The LB, DM tie along with the Ayr farm would be Waterloo and Toronto right?

So why would Hamilton care if TO and Waterloo were working a different case concerning their(TO & Waterloo) respective/combined jurisdictions?

Or more to the point, why would TO formally notify Hamilton that they would be working in Waterloo jurisdiction?

Maybe I have the agencies' borders wrong, aren't the players TPS(TO), HPD(Hamilton), WRPS(Waterloo) and BPD(brantford) and possibly OPP?

I can envision some potential issues in this kind of multi-jurisdictional crime but it would make sense for the OPP to foresee, oversee and coordinate this kind of protocol. However the G20 wasn't much testament to combined executable knowledge, protocol, efficiencies and execution was it?

TPS may not be obligated or required to formally notify HPS, but given the magnitude of HPS' search of the same farm a week or two prior, plus the very high profile of the case, it would be more than reasonable, probably expected, for an informal call, acknowledgement, nod or something to HPS to have taken place before TPS embarked on a smaller-scaled but similar inspection. It seems the right thing to do, and in a profession so proud of its fraternal qualities, the respectful thing to do. Not consulting is like saying you didn't know they were there two weeks before, when all of Ontario knew they were there. Have I been misled all these years about the respect cops have for eachother?

Hamilton was the lead agency at the TB investigation at the farm.

A phone call may have led to some valuable exchange that could have resulted in a more efficient use of LE's time. So while I agree Hamilton shouldn't care, I do think Toronto's Chief of Police should care, as should the City's taxpayers, including yours truly who does find it rather odd they didn't bother to do that.

Per Clairmont:

You'd think maybe Toronto would want to ask Hamilton police some questions before literally going over the same ground. Share information. Help each other out.Especially when Toronto has a lot of catching up to do.

http://m.thespec.com/news-story/3255379-clairmont-where-questions-trump-answers/

It's actually amusing that many who asked these very same questions a few months ago are taken aback now by any suggestion that TPS handled some aspects of their investigations in a surprising and questionable manner. What is wrong with thinking mistakes were made anyway?

 

[Snoofo]

Any theories on two holsters purchased on eBay?

Was DM into firearms?

Especially given the somewhat uniqueness of the two models that fit their respective holsters?

Without some specific exceptions they would be prohibited inside Canada.

I think he was into paintball or laserquest. Not sure about firearms. Maybe Wayne's? A prop for a costume, photo shoot?

Are the guns they hold from an older variety or are they the types that are popular today with gangs (clearly I know zero about guns)?

Maybe he's a hairdresser. I swear there's a stylist at a nearby salon who looks like Tony Soprano and wears his scissors in a holster. I'm not kidding! :floorlaugh:

The holsters were either meant to hold guns or chocolate bars. I'd say DM needed to conceal a real gun for some reason.

 

[Alethea Dice]

A phone call may have led to some valuable exchange that could have resulted in a more efficient use of LE's time. So while I agree Hamilton shouldn't care, I do think Toronto's Chief of Police should care, as should the City's taxpayers, including yours truly who does find it rather odd they didn't bother to do that.

rsbm

Especially since they were searching the same farm and with regards to the same suspect.

JMO

 

[Archangel7]

A phone call may have led to some valuable exchange that could have resulted in a more efficient use of LE's time. So while I agree Hamilton shouldn't care, I do think Toronto's Chief of Police should care, as should the City's taxpayers, including yours truly who does find it rather odd they didn't bother to do that.

Per Clairmont:

http://m.thespec.com/news-story/3255379-clairmont-where-questions-trump-answers/

It's actually amusing that many who asked these very same questions a few months ago are taken aback now by any suggestion that TPS handled some aspects of their investigations in a surprising and questionable manner. What is wrong with thinking mistakes were made anyway?

.......rsbm

Maybe there was a phone call between Chiefs, etc. Or maybe Hamilton issued or TO obtained a report of what HPD found or an inventory list of what evidence was seized and where?

How long was Susan Clairvoyant a cop or a mind reader? What she "thinks" a LE agency's protocol or policy is or should be is just that, an opinion.

Not following social protocol on courtesy notifications, dealing with cross jurisdictional issues, is just that. It just further portrays/reflects poorly on how Blair's management skill is viewed, IMO.

That said, social/professional correctness is a goodly stretch from a questionable investigation. Whether the same ground is
re inspected/re investigated is also irrelevant, doctors rerun workups/tests, mechanics rerun, so do other positions of service.

Technically speaking, as mentioned before, TPS owes no jurisdictional explanation to HPD when TPS is working in Waterloo.

The issue Susan highlighted was/can be resolved with Carbone and Kavanaugh over the phone or by courier if in fact it is a reality.

Besides who were the ones posting that the police must be sure the correct perp is caught and prosecuted lest the real murderer go free? Wouldn't that take unbiased eyes looking at the same ground over again and if the same conclusion is reached, independently, well, well, well..........

 

[Variant]

The holsters were either meant to hold guns or chocolate bars. I'd say DM needed to conceal a real gun for some reason.

I'd say DM wanted to conceal a real gun for some reason.

 

[Archangel7]

I'd say DM wanted to conceal a real gun for some reason.

One particular gun is very curious to me. Especially in Canada in a Civi's possession(if he actually has the gun(s) that fits the holster(s).

One is quite a specialized firearm and is popular in extremely small circles in some countries.

 

[Alethea Dice]

I think he was into paintball or laserquest. Not sure about firearms. Maybe Wayne's? A prop for a costume, photo shoot?

Are the guns they hold from an older variety or are they the types that are popular today with gangs (clearly I know zero about guns)?

Maybe he's a hairdresser. I swear there's a stylist at a nearby salon who looks like Tony Soprano and wears his scissors in a holster. I'm not kidding! :floorlaugh:

The holsters were either meant to hold guns or chocolate bars. I'd say DM needed to conceal a real gun for some reason.

The holsters were purchased just before October, in time for Halloween. Maybe he even had an airsoft pistol that would fit very nicely, like the one in the EBay pictures.

I noticed that the last purchase (or at least the last feedback he's had) was while WM was still alive. Maybe some of the purchases were for WM. The model plane was one of the last ones used by MillardAir before they went bankrupt in 1990. [ame="http://www.flickr.com/photos/36702396@N00/7499887472/"]MILLARDAIR DC-3S/C-117 Lineup | Flickr - Photo Sharing![/ame] In AB's article published last May, she did say that WM didn't use computers or email.

By that time, he and Madeleine had split and, according to Steve Glass, the brother of Wayne’s girlfriend at the time, Elizabeth Glass, Wayne didn’t use computers or email.

But now she claims to have been provided with some emails that WM had sent to a friend, so perhaps he did use computers and email and wouldn't need to use DM's for any EBay purchases, or have DM do the transactions for him.

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2013/09/new-information-from-wayne-millard-about-the-millardair-kitchener-operations.html#comments

JMO

 

[Carli]

Announced that TB was found on May 14 (quite possibly found May 13 JMO) - http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/05/14/tim-bosma-found-dead/

... with respect to the threshold aspect of this case - to wit the positive identification of the (allegedly) murdered body of Timothy Bosma - please note that the Nat Post in this cited article, among other MSM have quoted Kavanaugh as saying...

"“A number of searches have taken place and human remains have been located,” he said. “We are convinced by the totality of the evidence, that these are the remains of Tim Bosma. The evidence indicates that the remains have been burned."

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/05/14/tim-bosma-found-dead/

Earlier, the remains/ashes found had been referred to as "unidentifiable".

I have yet to find any report, pressie or other authoritative forensic source that states, unequivocally, that a body belonging to Timothy Bosma has ever been found.

MOO IMHO

 

[Alethea Dice]

.......rsbm

Maybe there was a phone call between Chiefs, etc. Or maybe Hamilton issued or TO obtained a report of what HPD found or an inventory list of what evidence was seized and where?

How long was Susan Clairvoyant a cop or a mind reader? What she "thinks" a LE agency's protocol or policy is or should be is just that, an opinion.

Not following social protocol on courtesy notifications, dealing with cross jurisdictional issues, is just that. It just further portrays/reflects poorly on how Blair's management skill is viewed, IMO.

That said, social/professional correctness is a goodly stretch from a questionable investigation. Whether the same ground is
re inspected/re investigated is also irrelevant, doctors rerun workups/tests, mechanics rerun, so do other positions of service.

Technically speaking, as mentioned before, TPS owes no jurisdictional explanation to HPD when TPS is working in Waterloo.

The issue Susan highlighted was/can be resolved with Carbone and Kavanaugh over the phone or by courier if in fact it is a reality.

Besides who were the ones posting that the police must be sure the correct perp is caught and prosecuted lest the real murderer go free? Wouldn't that take unbiased eyes looking at the same ground over again and if the same conclusion is reached, independently, well, well, well..........

I think she was pretty clear in the article that she was expressing her opinions. JMO

What would be the reasoning for HPD to provide TPS with a list of what they found and where? They were investigating a different case and apparently, according to the article, didn't even know TPS was going there ahead of time.

And how would they reach the same conclusion when, again, they were investigating two different cases? TPS wasn't looking for anything that would confirm that HPD reached the right conclusion.

JMO