General Discussion and Theories #4

[MsSherlock]

I don't know what DM's supporters say about him. I haven't seen too many of those interviews, if they happened, and I don't know any of the people involved. But it's not unusual for an only child to become an executive of a private family company, regardless of education and whether it is in name only or otherwise. From what I've seen, not all of his friends are what I would call ordinary achievers. There seems to have been a mix of different types of people.

Maybe you were introduced to DM as a prep school kid preparing for university, but I was introduced to him (not personally) much earlier as a 14 year old who broke a flying record. What cover story are the people around him creating for his "non-ambition"? Do you have a link? Or are you simply referring to what his at the time lawyer said about him, because how does that reflect anything that the people around him might be saying?

It's not always bros before h**s in every circle. Women have been involved in illegal dealings with their partners for years. They just seem to be able to conjure up more sympathies from a lot of the general public and are, therefore, able to play the "poor me" role and be treated more leniently.

All JMO.

IMHO, I can't even put a lot of merit into his achievement as being the youngest person to get a student pilots license in both fixed and rotary wing aircraft. FWIW, I personally believe that a trip to any Air Cadets squadron would produce at least a dozen kids capable of doing the exact same thing. The difference between the Air Cadet kids and DM is that the Cadets don't have free access to planes and helicopters. MOO

Few parents would see the value in dishing out thousands of dollars for licensing a 14 year old when he or she wouldn't be able to get a full license until they're 17. Further, a student pilot is only permitted to fly under the guidance of a flight instructor, so that would mean that DM had 3 years of training before he could do his written and in air flight exams. IIRC, there is indication that he held his rotary wing license, but no reference to a fixed wing license so we don't know if he ever did get his full fixed wing pilots license.

IMHO, DM flying both a helicopter and plane at 14 was ridiculous and simply a proud moment by CM and WM for a bit of fame and glory. Yes, it was an accomplishment, but one that doesn't indicate any form of superior intelligence or aptitude. Perhaps more attention should have been put on giving DM a well rounded childhood that involved more things than being a "ramp rat". Doesn't seem to be much talk of family vacations, cottages or sports. Pretty formative years gone to waste sitting at an airport. MOO

 

[Tamarind]

IMHO, I can't even put a lot of merit into his achievement as being the youngest person to get a student pilots license in both fixed and rotary wing aircraft. FWIW, I personally believe that a trip to any Air Cadets squadron would produce at least a dozen kids capable of doing the exact same thing. The difference between the Air Cadet kids and DM is that the Cadets don't have free access to planes and helicopters. MOO

Few parents would see the value in dishing out thousands of dollars for licensing a 14 year old when he or she wouldn't be able to get a full license until they're 17. Further, a student pilot is only permitted to fly under the guidance of a flight instructor, so that would mean that DM had 3 years of training before he could do his written and in air flight exams. IIRC, there is indication that he held his rotary wing license, but no reference to a fixed wing license so we don't know if he ever did get his full fixed wing pilots license.

IMHO, DM flying both a helicopter and plane at 14 was ridiculous and simply a proud moment by CM and WM for a bit of fame and glory. Yes, it was an accomplishment, but one that doesn't indicate any form of superior intelligence or aptitude. Perhaps more attention should have been put on giving DM a well rounded childhood that involved more things than being a "ramp rat". Doesn't seem to be much talk of family vacations, cottages or sports. Pretty formative years gone to waste sitting at an airport. MOO

There may well be other children flying planes at 14 years old. But IMHO it in no way detracts from DM's accomplishment. Whether or not he had free access to planes and helicopters, it was still an achievement for a child of that age. I don't see it as at all ridiculous, in fact in the past children of that age accomplished things that todays 14 year olds could never think of let alone master. Many 14 years wouldn't set foot on a plane they were expected to fly. Some parents won't even allow their kids to have a skateboard, or a off road motorcycle, and many kids don't even want them.

I think it shows that DM did have an aptitude for learning and for self control at an early age. My own son flew a plane when he was 15, not solo but he was and is a very talented and grounded individual, so I don't see anything negative from DM's achievement. I don't see it as a fame and glory thing for the Millards, from what I have read they seemed to be a private family who didnt place importance on luxuries as others may do. Without knowledge of their private family matters, it's hard to say about family vacations etc. But I see no reason to trash the family without any proof of such things. JMHO

 

[Tamarind]

DM must have seemed to be an incredibly powerful person to CN - he had the money to make anything happen, right now. Perhaps CN believed that DM was even above the law, because he had "so much money".By his own accounts, DM was feeling incredibly confident...until CN was arrested and he got really, really skinny.

I think DM's supporters give him more credit for his accomplishments than is due. His job title didn't match his actual level of participation, knowledge, skill, experience, aptitude. DM would have never been hired as an executive at any other MRO. It was a hollow accomplishment constructed for him by his dad from his dad's money. It was also DM's cover story: DM could introduce himself then as an aviation exec rather than a playboy, a layabout with deep pockets.

DM attended a lot of schools but never followed through with his programs. He scraped by and was even thrown out of a course for cheating. Yet we were introduced to him as a prep school kid, prepping for a university education that never happened. I think the people around DM are so used to creating a cover story for his non-ambition that it's become habit and they have come to believe in it.

DM hung out with really ordinary people because he himself was ordinary. Maybe this awakened an anger in him, because he felt that his money or pedigree should give him an extraordinary life? For some reason he harboured such rage or indifference to other humans that he killed three times.

I imagine MS connected with the circle of ordinary achievers because he was a regular kinda guy with quick access to drugs. Anyone with some money can buy drugs, but all the money in the world won't get you drugs NOW unless you have a good connection that knows more than a couple places to go. MS's been in the loop since high school. I think this is where MS fits in, just making a steady commission on drug sales to DM and hanging on in the fringes of DM's hangar circle. That circle and the rap circle are two different social networks on Facebook, and I think it was drugs and cars that made DM and MS make a connection and start a retail relationship.

If that was the kind of shallow relationship between DM and MS, you could see how if the truck hijacking did not go as planned, they would cut bait and each go their own ways. MS would have to do nothing but hide himself, but DM was left with a truck and a body and covering all of the tracks, and I think this was so troublesome to deal with that he asked CN to pitch in. That's why CN got involved, IMO: because there was stuff to do and MS had bailed on DM.

Now that would be a special event, that trust that DM laid in CN: it's always bros before h**s, women stay out of a lot of male criminal culture. To be invited in as a woman to participate in some male hijinks...wow, that's intense. Perhaps the secret of what DM had done was intoxicating to CN. She shared a little slice of the thrills of power and fear involved in criminal activity. She was hooked in her support for DM.

Perhaps with 20 years of wisdom under her belt and a deep secret that she could not share and discuss openly, CN believed that DM's money would prove all-powerful as it had in the past, and DM would get off, and they would get married, and she too would become a millionaire in reward fro her loyalty.

I think something changed her mind. Maybe it was her brief stay in jail as she awaited bail, or her arrest itself?

I think you will find that many women feel their partner is superman. That comes from being infatuated with a love interest. IMO. I think the stress of being in jail and having to adapt to disgusting food, lack of sunlight and negativity could cause anyone to become skinny.

We don't know whether his (DM's) job title matched his level of participation, knowledge, skill, experience or aptitude, all we have to go on is a statement by AS who was apparently fired for not doing a good job. We do know that DM arranged to meet him to discuss this, which sounds quite professional and businesslike to me. I agree that it is unlikely DM would have been hired as an executive at any other MRO, especially in Ontario, but not for the reasons some may think. As for being a hollow accomplishment constructed for him by his dad from his dad's money, that could be said of Canada's current Prime Minister too, or any other offspring from wealthy families. So just singling out DM seems rather bias to me JMO.

Aren't many young men and women playboys/girls? I think young men and women do 'play the field' as it were. I don't see DM as being a layabout any more than I see other men and women as layabouts based on who is their latest love interest. In fact, I believe many business executives have a few ports in a storm.

I think DM shows signs of being and wanting to be quite ordinary, like his father before him, I see no signs of pretentiousness or a luxurious lifestyle, which may have been expected from some people.

It is hard to speculate how DM and MS may have known each other. I do think based on his assets and wealth, DM would have been an easy target for being used. JMO. There is always somebody who knows somebody, to get what people want. It must have been like striking gold to come across someone with a hangar, money and property for certain people. JMO

I think DM and CN may have been traumatized by what they had been linked to. Who knows what anyones fiirst thought would be in that situation. Especially if they were being blackmailed/threatened to stay silent, which is another possibility.

There is no reason to suspect that CN is not an honest girl who is having to go through the motions of a situation that she is in. All JMO

 

[SnooperDuper]

I think you will find that many women feel their partner is superman. That comes from being infatuated with a love interest. IMO.

So that explains it - CN was infatuated, so much so that she was willing to support DM in his crimes.

I think the stress of being in jail and having to adapt to disgusting food, lack of sunlight and negativity could cause anyone to become skinny.

But ironically enough, when DM first went to jail, he adjusted by becoming pudgy. It is only after the April arrests that DM started to lose weight.

We don't know whether his (DM's) job title matched his level of participation, knowledge, skill, experience or aptitude, all we have to go on is a statement by AS who was apparently fired for not doing a good job. We do know that DM arranged to meet him to discuss this, which sounds quite professional and businesslike to me. I agree that it is unlikely DM would have been hired as an executive at any other MRO, especially in Ontario, but not for the reasons some may think. As for being a hollow accomplishment constructed for him by his dad from his dad's money, that could be said of Canada's current Prime Minister too, or any other offspring from wealthy families. So just singling out DM seems rather bias to me JMO.

AS was never fired, especially not for doing a bad job. He was laid off with all of the other employees when MA went down.

Aren't many young men and women playboys/girls? I think young men and women do 'play the field' as it were. I don't see DM as being a layabout any more than I see other men and women as layabouts based on who is their latest love interest. In fact, I believe many business executives have a few ports in a storm.

So you accept that DM was just like any other wealthy failure out there? Poor character, no achievements?

I think DM shows signs of being and wanting to be quite ordinary, like his father before him, I see no signs of pretentiousness or a luxurious lifestyle, which may have been expected from some people.

So the massive parties DM tried to make a reality for his friends, the jet skis, these are just everyday expenses?

It is hard to speculate how DM and MS may have known each other. I do think based on his assets and wealth, DM would have been an easy target for being used. JMO. There is always somebody who knows somebody, to get what people want. It must have been like striking gold to come across someone with a hangar, money and property for certain people. JMO

I think DM and CN may have been traumatized by what they had been linked to. Who knows what anyones fiirst thought would be in that situation. Especially if they were being blackmailed/threatened to stay silent, which is another possibility.

There is no reason to suspect that CN is not an honest girl who is having to go through the motions of a situation that she is in. All JMO

No CN was infatuated and willing to follow DM blindly, by your own suggestion.

Perhaps CN and DM can work through their "trauma" by writing letters back and forth from prison.

 

[Tamarind]

So that explains it - CN was infatuated, so much so that she was willing to support DM in his crimes.

No, thats not what I said at all.

But ironically enough, when DM first went to jail, he adjusted by becoming pudgy. It is only after the April arrests that DM started to lose weight.

I didn't see evidence of pudgy !

AS was never fired, especially not for doing a bad job. He was laid off with all of the other employees when MA went down.

I think he was fired, JMO.

So you accept that DM was just like any other wealthy failure out there? Poor character, no achievements?

Not what I said at all - please be careful when taking my words out of context.

So the massive parties DM tried to make a reality for his friends, the jet skis, these are just everyday expenses?

They were not for himself which speaks volumes about his character. IMO

No CN was infatuated and willing to follow DM blindly, by your own suggestion.

Not at all... I did not suggest that at all. I am sorry my words are so misinterpreted.

Perhaps CN and DM can work through their "trauma" by writing letters back and forth from prison.

Not sure why they would need to at this point. I am looking forward to the trial though.

 

[Alethea Dice]

IMHO, I can't even put a lot of merit into his achievement as being the youngest person to get a student pilots license in both fixed and rotary wing aircraft. FWIW, I personally believe that a trip to any Air Cadets squadron would produce at least a dozen kids capable of doing the exact same thing. The difference between the Air Cadet kids and DM is that the Cadets don't have free access to planes and helicopters. MOO

Few parents would see the value in dishing out thousands of dollars for licensing a 14 year old when he or she wouldn't be able to get a full license until they're 17. Further, a student pilot is only permitted to fly under the guidance of a flight instructor, so that would mean that DM had 3 years of training before he could do his written and in air flight exams. IIRC, there is indication that he held his rotary wing license, but no reference to a fixed wing license so we don't know if he ever did get his full fixed wing pilots license.

IMHO, DM flying both a helicopter and plane at 14 was ridiculous and simply a proud moment by CM and WM for a bit of fame and glory. Yes, it was an accomplishment, but one that doesn't indicate any form of superior intelligence or aptitude. Perhaps more attention should have been put on giving DM a well rounded childhood that involved more things than being a "ramp rat". Doesn't seem to be much talk of family vacations, cottages or sports. Pretty formative years gone to waste sitting at an airport. MOO

Actually, he held the world record for the youngest solo helicopter flight, and was the youngest Canadian to pilot solo both a helicopter and a fixed-wing aircraft on the same day. Not just being the youngest person to get a student's licence in both.

If the funds are not an issue, and flying is in the family, why would they care about the money it takes to make a world record? There are values to doing something that isn't necessarily a monetary value, such as someone's enjoyment or pride in the accomplishment. On a smaller scale, how many parents spend lots of dollars for their sons to play hockey, even if there is no chance of them becoming a professional some day. If those parents didn't see a value in it other than monetary rewards, the opportunities for those youth would be greatly reduced.

Nothing wrong with being proud of your children and grandchildren, regardless of what their achievements are. I'm not a fan of blaming the parents for everything in life, and haven't seen any interviews yet that even asked questions about their family vacations, cottages or sports. Not everyone has the same priorities. Some people have no interest in a cottage and even less in sports.

JMO

 

[MsSherlock]

Actually, he held the world record for the youngest solo helicopter flight, and was the youngest Canadian to pilot solo both a helicopter and a fixed-wing aircraft on the same day. Not just being the youngest person to get a student's licence in both.

If the funds are not an issue, and flying is in the family, why would they care about the money it takes to make a world record? There are values to doing something that isn't necessarily a monetary value, such as someone's enjoyment or pride in the accomplishment. On a smaller scale, how many parents spend lots of dollars for their sons to play hockey, even if there is no chance of them becoming a professional some day. If those parents didn't see a value in it other than monetary rewards, the opportunities for those youth would be greatly reduced.

Nothing wrong with being proud of your children and grandchildren, regardless of what their achievements are. I'm not a fan of blaming the parents for everything in life, and haven't seen any interviews yet that even asked questions about their family vacations, cottages or sports. Not everyone has the same priorities. Some people have no interest in a cottage and even less in sports.

JMO

I guess we're looking at it from different angles AD. You're looking at all the reasons DM had not to be a triple murderer, and I'm looking at some clue as to what made him a triple murderer. Of course, nothings been proven in court, but I'm of the opinion that they've corralled too many rats on this case and there's either going to be some slam dunk convictions or we'll witness the biggest miscarriage of justice in Canadian history. My bets are hedged on the first.

So, if it is in fact the first, I want to know exactly what would turn a cute little boy into a manipulative killer. I can't believe that baby D was born to kill. Did he feel forced to do things that he didn't have one ounce of interest in...like go thru all the steps to get his student pilots license? Were his parents involved in his life or were they wrapped up in their own, leaving DM to be raised by a housekeeper? I see DM getting his students pilots license to feel significant with WM, MB & CM. Did he struggle in a love/hate relationship with WM and MB? Did he realize his power when got into his twenties- realizing what money could really buy you- things like women, trips, drugs, guns and lots and lots of friends? Leading me back to my initial question- "what causes someone like DM to become a murderer". MOO

 

[Tamarind]

I guess we're looking at it from different angles AD. You're looking at all the reasons DM had not to be a triple murderer, and I'm looking at some clue as to what made him a triple murderer. Of course, nothings been proven in court, but I'm of the opinion that they've corralled too many rats on this case and there's either going to be some slam dunk convictions or we'll witness the biggest miscarriage of justice in Canadian history. My bets are hedged on the first.

So, if it is in fact the first, I want to know exactly what would turn a cute little boy into a manipulative killer. I can't believe that baby D was born to kill. Did he feel forced to do things that he didn't have one ounce of interest in...like go thru all the steps to get his student pilots license? Were his parents involved in his life or were they wrapped up in their own, leaving DM to be raised by a housekeeper? I see DM getting his students pilots license to feel significant with WM, MB & CM. Did he struggle in a love/hate relationship with WM and MB? Did he realize his power when got into his twenties- realizing what money could really buy you- things like women, trips, drugs, guns and lots and lots of friends? Leading me back to my initial question- "what causes someone like DM to become a murderer". MOO

I guess these hypothetical questions can either be answered after the trial or there will be no reason to go looking for answers JMO.

If he had realized what money could buy him and was super materialistic, I think we would have seen evidence of it all by now. All we have seen is that he was generous to his friends and has been described as humble, which IMO would reflect his upbringing ie) being driven to school in a truck and not a Mercedes Benz.

I am hedging my bets on the unexpected.

 

[hopingforjustice]

We have no way of knowing her reasons for anything at this point. There may be good reason for getting a lawyer and for maintaining her right to stay silent. If she truly believes he is innocent why would she do otherwise? A lawyer would have told her not to go to the police either way IMHO

BBM
Respectfully, I do not agree. If a terrified and completely innocent young girl with her parents in tow showed up on a lawyers door, spilling her guts with what she "knew" (one or more murders) and what she may or may not have been "forced" to do, I find it very very hard to believe that a lawyer would tell her to sit back and wait it out. As if to see if she would get caught or called into it ??? Really? It's my feeling that if she has a totally good girl alibi and got totally swindled into a serious mess, a good lawyer would accompany her to the authorities and clear her name immediately, perhaps even start ratting the perp out and begin the plea bargain process at that point..not a year later when they have the goods on her!! There was a much more serious agenda on her visit to that lawyer. JMO

Lets face it..If she is guilty of what they are accusing her of and she spoke up right away, think of the torment, time, money and grief this would have saved that family and a whole lot of people. And would have helped herself twofold!

You are very correct in your statement that she had good reason for seeking an attorney and IMO it was for purely selfish reasons, not to help the case. There is no explanation for her remaining quiet except to save her own a$$


IMO This girl is and/or was totally aware of the wrongs that were committed and it sickens me that a young girl like that would accept that and just move on with her life like nothing happened. I sincerely hope this extreme apathy is not what our society is breeding.

JMO MYO

 

[Tamarind]

BBM
Respectfully, I do not agree. If a terrified and completely innocent young girl with her parents in tow showed up on a lawyers door, spilling her guts with what she "knew" (one or more murders) and what she may or may not have been "forced" to do, I find it very very hard to believe that a lawyer would tell her to sit back and wait it out. As if to see if she would get caught or called into it ??? Really? It's my feeling that if she has a totally good girl alibi and got totally swindled into a serious mess, a good lawyer would accompany her to the authorities and clear her name immediately, perhaps even start ratting the perp out and begin the plea bargain process at that point..not a year later when they have the goods on her!! There was a much more serious agenda on her visit to that lawyer. JMO

Lets face it..If she is guilty of what they are accusing her of and she spoke up right away, think of the torment, time, money and grief this would have saved that family and a whole lot of people. And would have helped herself twofold!

You are very correct in your statement that she had good reason for seeking an attorney and IMO it was for purely selfish reasons, not to help the case. There is no explanation for her remaining quiet except to save her own a$$


IMO This girl is and/or was totally aware of the wrongs that were committed and it sickens me that a young girl like that would accept that and just move on with her life like nothing happened. I sincerely hope this extreme apathy is not what our society is breeding.

JMO MYO

We don't know that she knew anything about murder(s). She may well know nothing about what may or may not have happened on any given day. She may know some information now (about things we may not know) and if she was being followed and got scared, she may well have had reason to go to a lawyer. If the lawyer felt she should protect herself ( knowing how charges can be laid based on smoke without the fire) the lawyer may not have advised anything other than to sit tight. Why would a lawyer tell her to jump into the the middle of a murder investigation, that she may not know anything about other than what she was told ! JMO

How anyone can suggest that her seeking a lawyer was for selfish reasons, without having any details to go on is not something that makes sense to me JMO

There may be a perfectly good explanation for her staying silent other than invoking her right to. IMO

At this point without knowing facts about her or her case I can't feel sickened. I am very interested in hearing what comes out at the trial though.

 

[Arnie M]

I guess we're looking at it from different angles AD. You're looking at all the reasons DM had not to be a triple murderer, and I'm looking at some clue as to what made him a triple murderer. Of course, nothings been proven in court, but I'm of the opinion that they've corralled too many rats on this case and there's either going to be some slam dunk convictions or we'll witness the biggest miscarriage of justice in Canadian history. My bets are hedged on the first.

So, if it is in fact the first, I want to know exactly what would turn a cute little boy into a manipulative killer. I can't believe that baby D was born to kill. Did he feel forced to do things that he didn't have one ounce of interest in...like go thru all the steps to get his student pilots license? Were his parents involved in his life or were they wrapped up in their own, leaving DM to be raised by a housekeeper? I see DM getting his students pilots license to feel significant with WM, MB & CM. Did he struggle in a love/hate relationship with WM and MB? Did he realize his power when got into his twenties- realizing what money could really buy you- things like women, trips, drugs, guns and lots and lots of friends? Leading me back to my initial question- "what causes someone like DM to become a murderer". MOO

I share those same thoughts with you . DM was a product of a responsible aviation family combined with parental desires that may not have fit him very well . All parents put expectations on their children , and children do try to please parents for the most part.

Most likely in his heart DM knew his direction in life was not quite what family expected but his circle of friends accepted him for what he was , and that acceptance kept him migrating in that direction until it went overcenter

Reminds me of the Brigadier General who expects his son to join the military , but the son wants to play the violin. The orchestra loves the son for what he is , but the parents express disappointment for what he is not

DM encountered the wrong orchestra , liked the music , and became a player .

 

[Tamarind]

I share those same thoughts with you . DM was a product of a responsible aviation family combined with parental desires that may not have fit him very well . All parents put expectations on their children , and children do try to please parents for the most part.

Or maybe he did meet their expectations. He certainly did when he was 14 and took to the skies solo. He obviously stood in for his father and helped him when he met people on business. His grandfather left his estate to both WM and DM not just WM apparently. So nothing to suggest DM was not good enough to inherit. WM went with DM to view the farm that was purchased, so obviously they were on great terms.

Most likely in his heart DM knew his direction in life was not quite what family expected but his circle of friends accepted him for what he was , and that acceptance kept him migrating in that direction until it went overcenter

Many may not find a group of activists who are trying to save seals as being admirable and that any friends connected with that venture are not acceptable. Then there are those who find it to be quite acceptable. We have no idea of the details that brought DM and MS together. Maybe DM was sought out. Maybe he was friends with a girl or someone MS friends knew and it proceeded from there.

Reminds me of the Brigadier General who expects his son to join the military , but the son wants to play the violin. The orchestra loves the son for what he is , but the parents express disappointment for what he is not

I see no evidence of WM showing any disappointment in DM. He appears to have valued his company and to have been close to his son. JMO

DM encountered the wrong orchestra , liked the music , and became a player .

I see no evidence of DM being a player. He comes across as being no different than any other young man IMO. Players usually don't get engaged. Any break up could have been mutual based on many situations. It doesn't need to have been negative. He was obviously still friendly with his fiance, whether she was an ex or not. In that situation maybe they both liked the music and played in the same orchestra but the gig was postponed !

 

[redheart]

RSBM:

BBM

IMO This girl is and/or was totally aware of the wrongs that were committed and it sickens me that a young girl like that would accept that and just move on with her life like nothing happened. I sincerely hope this extreme apathy is not what our society is breeding.

JMO MYO

Exactly, hopingforjustice.

Every once in awhile it really hits me just how scary these people are, if guilty as charged. In Tim's murder, a young family has been shattered. His little girl will grow up and someday learn how brutally her father was killed and incinerated. His wife desperately pleaded for his safe return for all to see. How could it be in a young woman - CN - to help DM cover it up? She's not as loathsome as the murderers, but she certainly is sickening.

 

[Tamarind]

RSBM:



Exactly, hopingforjustice.

Every once in awhile it really hits me just how scary these people are, if guilty as charged. In Tim's murder, a young family has been shattered. His little girl will grow up and someday learn how brutally her father was killed and incinerated. His wife desperately pleaded for his safe return for all to see. How could it be in a young woman - CN - to help DM cover it up? She's not as loathsome as the murderers, but she certainly is sickening.

As you say...IF guilty as charged and IF she was helping a murderer. We shall see. I am hoping to get to the trials. It will be good to actually get some first hand information. IMO

 

[Juballee]

Personally, I would like to know what actually happened before I judge how loathsome people may be.

For all we know at the present time, CN's charge could stem from something as simple as answering a phone call and saying 'Sorry, he's not here' when her boyfriend mouthed to say he's not there.

Call me what you will, I like to know what people actually did before I condem them for it.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I guess we're looking at it from different angles AD. You're looking at all the reasons DM had not to be a triple murderer, and I'm looking at some clue as to what made him a triple murderer. Of course, nothings been proven in court, but I'm of the opinion that they've corralled too many rats on this case and there's either going to be some slam dunk convictions or we'll witness the biggest miscarriage of justice in Canadian history. My bets are hedged on the first.

So, if it is in fact the first, I want to know exactly what would turn a cute little boy into a manipulative killer. I can't believe that baby D was born to kill. Did he feel forced to do things that he didn't have one ounce of interest in...like go thru all the steps to get his student pilots license? Were his parents involved in his life or were they wrapped up in their own, leaving DM to be raised by a housekeeper? I see DM getting his students pilots license to feel significant with WM, MB & CM. Did he struggle in a love/hate relationship with WM and MB? Did he realize his power when got into his twenties- realizing what money could really buy you- things like women, trips, drugs, guns and lots and lots of friends? Leading me back to my initial question- "what causes someone like DM to become a murderer". MOO

I think it goes back to CM. CM learned to fly in his twenties, WM at 17 and DM at 14. WM became an exec of CM's company in his twenties and so did DM of WM's project. I think there was an expectation that the third generation of M's was going to be better, faster, stronger than any generation before.

The reality though was this: DM was in a school full of professionals' kids that he had nothing in common with, including a university path. In business DM was not at all a leader - he was too young and inexperienced to earn any respect, and lacked a work ethic, and his employees like AS looked down on him as a spoiled kid. There must of been a lot of competitive spirit (rather than compassion and support) in the family for the cause of CM's legacy to be so strong. I keep thinking of WM spending $30k to eulogize CM in the paper, and how he wanted DM to uphold the family name and legend with the MRO project.

So DM knew he had to be Mr. Big, but it wasn't happening. There was no TFS graduation ceremony. There was no convocation at university. After age 14, DM's achievements stalled, but I think the expectation was still there for him to do big things.

What ended up happening with the MRO was that everyone was told DM was doing big things, but the reality was different again. He wasn't there, he didn't work hard, he did not have the knowledge or experience, he was an impediment. Family built up a myth that DM was doing fine when he really wasn't on schedule for all the achievements his family expected of him.

It was easier for DM to just be a regular guy, and hang out with his buds, but he still felt that push to be Mr. Big, to create a legacy in his name. And, DM could lead his friends easily by being the most daring, by ponying up the cash to make things happen, by having the most shocking hysterical haircut. The challenges of being a leader of ordinary men is much less than that in business. All you need is a few good movie quotes and one good imitation.

The crazy got fuelled by money and male friendship and a no fear, no boundaries attitude. I don't think others lead DM astray, but that others supported him in his hijinks. DM was the "watch me do this" guy. And he always tried to top his last trick.

Now you don't have to be smart to be a criminal, you just have to cross the intangible line between right and wrong. I don't think DM was an incredible thinker - after all, he wasn't into school and he sits in his jail cell fantasizing about kids' movies...but he had a tremendous amount of daring.

Somehow I picture him watching that old movie MB made of a seal being skinned alive, with his buddies, drunk and stoned and howling with laughter. Can you top that DM? Can you do something even grosser than make that horror flick/"wildlife education film"? I think DM would be attracted by the gruesomeness of that film and all the physical fights and evasion of police that went with it.

When MB and WM divorced, DM was a young teen and chose (as you legally may at age 12) to live with WM. WM was a drinker. This means DM's household was ruled by the schedule of the bottle, with late mornings, and many many hours devoted to drinking and recovering from drinking. Don't kid yourself: drinking eats up a lot of time. WM could have been doing many other worthwhile things, but he merely insisted that DM achieve (with no pressure on himself to recover his own life). He cooked DM pasta because it is quick and easy and there are leftovers. WM didn't put his time into making the home a good environment. DM got the basics out of him. MB was absent. With no real adults in his life, DM surrounded himself with buddies and empowered the lot of them with his money.

I see DM as immature and childish and daring. He is no genius and I think this will become apparent at trial, when the mountain of evidence against him is revealed. DM never planned to get caught and undergo an investigation. All of his defenses against LE were shallow and easily defeated. LE arrested DM within days.

I think just like any other kid with parents with substance abuse issues, he went astray due to lack of guidance, and he surrounded himself with other kids that did not have the wisdom of life, or strongly developed values or morals, rather than stable adults. I think DM got a lot of encouragement from his buddies. I think his buddies felt safe and protected because of DM's status and money, as did DM.

Every so often in Facebook I get a trite graphic that ponders how lovely the world would be if children ruled it. In reality kids have to be taught not to bully, pinch, slap, hit, name call or push or shove...the little buggers need to be civilized and taught to behave nicely. I think that's what happened to DM. He did not have the adult guidance to keep him on the right track, and he developed into a self-centred, self-important monster that was haunted by the need to build a legacy of his own.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Personally, I would like to know what actually happened before I judge how loathsome people may be.

For all we know at the present time, CN's charge could stem from something as simple as answering a phone call and saying 'Sorry, he's not here' when her boyfriend mouthed to say he's not there.

Call me what you will, I like to know what people actually did before I condem them for it.

Surely then her charges would not stand up in court?

CN is charged with accessory after the fact to murder, and you have to do more than nothing to face that charge. She's spent months in jail, deposited $100k bail, and wears and ankle monitor. Surely it would be an abuse of power to punish her this way if all she did was answer the phone.

It's also interesting that she was not arrested for nearly a year after the crime. I don't think this was because of a lack of evidence. I think LE was watching her, and the delay to her arrest was intentional.

 

[SnooperDuper]

We don't know that she knew anything about murder(s).

<rsbm>

We absolutely do know that CN knew about the murder, because LE would have to have proof that she knew in order to arrest her and charge her with being an accessory after the fact to murder.

 

[SnooperDuper]

BBM
Respectfully, I do not agree. If a terrified and completely innocent young girl with her parents in tow showed up on a lawyers door, spilling her guts with what she "knew" (one or more murders) and what she may or may not have been "forced" to do, I find it very very hard to believe that a lawyer would tell her to sit back and wait it out. As if to see if she would get caught or called into it ??? Really? It's my feeling that if she has a totally good girl alibi and got totally swindled into a serious mess, a good lawyer would accompany her to the authorities and clear her name immediately, perhaps even start ratting the perp out and begin the plea bargain process at that point..not a year later when they have the goods on her!! There was a much more serious agenda on her visit to that lawyer. JMO

Lets face it..If she is guilty of what they are accusing her of and she spoke up right away, think of the torment, time, money and grief this would have saved that family and a whole lot of people. And would have helped herself twofold!

You are very correct in your statement that she had good reason for seeking an attorney and IMO it was for purely selfish reasons, not to help the case. There is no explanation for her remaining quiet except to save her own a$$


IMO This girl is and/or was totally aware of the wrongs that were committed and it sickens me that a young girl like that would accept that and just move on with her life like nothing happened. I sincerely hope this extreme apathy is not what our society is breeding.

JMO MYO

I loved this post - tell it like it is!

 

[Tamarind]

<rsbm>

We absolutely do know that CN knew about the murder, because LE would have to have proof that she knew in order to arrest her and charge her with being an accessory after the fact to murder.

LE lays a charge. Prosecutors then have to PROVE it beyond reasonable doubt. Charges can be laid for things without any proof at all. Just by someone saying that it happened is all it takes. Evidence can consist of something that LE has interpreted one way, when in actual fact it was not that way at all.