General Discussion and Theories #4

[Juballee]

Yes, I'll gladly eat crow if I'm wrong on thinking DM is directly involved in the death of 3 people. I feel very badly for all of his friends and family who will have their lives exposed based on the horrible things he did. Same goes for the friends and family of Smich and Noudga. JMO

I totally agree that at this point we're simply armchair detectives trying to make sense of the little bits and pieces that we do know. One thing that we can say with certainty is that two 1st degree murder trials are right around the corner and that in 5 or 6 months from now we will know what really happened to TB and who was responsible for it. We will have been exposed to the evidence LE has, heard sworn testimony from the witnesses and MSM will not only be flooded with a plethora of factual information, I'm sure that as the story of DM & MS unfold before us, MSM will be shining their spotlight into the lives of some of the witnesses as well. I've never has to testify at a trial like this, but I imagine that you can't really prepare yourself for the stress or publicity.

IMHO, LE has done a brilliant job at keeping a lid on this case. The media has done a great job adhering to the PB. Even the change of Judges seems to have gone without a hitch. Considering that we've all been sitting in various TB/DM/MS WS forums for so long, these next few months are sure to fly by (especially with the holidays in the fold). Yes, I have my theory on DM & MS but hey, we're almost at the finish line so anything I think at this point is irrelevant. If DM does emerge innocent, carrying the Citizen of the Year Award, I'll be the first one to apologize and admit I was wrong. MOO

It seems strange to me that some uninvolved spectators are dying to have some 'skin in the game' and yet the very people who do have some skin in it likely look forward to an invasion of privacy and the spectre of public humiliation or reprisal from the media. It's a wonder any witness ever has the courage to testify at all, considering all the people already lined up and waiting to take a swipe at their hide. It must take a lot of bravery, in my opinion, to stand up to that kind of unnecessary pressure in the name of the truth and justice. To me, that takes real guts.

 

[SnooperDuper]

It seems strange to me that some uninvolved spectators are dying to have some 'skin in the game' and yet the very people who do have some skin in it likely look forward to an invasion of privacy and the spectre of public humiliation or reprisal from the media. It's a wonder any witness ever has the courage to testify at all, considering all the people already lined up and waiting to take a swipe at their hide. It must take a lot of bravery, in my opinion, to stand up to that kind of unnecessary pressure in the name of the truth and justice. To me, that takes real guts.

That's assuming this behaviour is in the name of the truth and justice. It could be out of friendship, kinship, money...

If someone has skin in the game, doesn't that mean LE has already been after their hide?

 

[swedie]

Or someone knew where to find what they needed.



Showing up to murder someone without a disguise is not arrogant in my opinion, it would be downright stupid. Thats one reason why I dont believe DM had any idea what was going on or about to. Wearing a hood up could be habit or to shield his face, if its the latter that would be more telling IMO.



There are simpler ways to hide bodies than burning them and leaving an incinerator out and moved, for all to see, IMO. Lets say MS wanted the truck and would have put it somewhere that he had access to. We know that the truck was somewhere, before being taken to DM's mothers house. What if that truck was somewhere that someone didnt want anyone to find it. We know that DM's tattoo was being pushed via the media, so what better place to put all the evidence, than at the door of the guy with the tattoo. Brilliant. Why not even ask the guy with the tattoo to help you, especially if the guy with the tattoo is feeling that he is a suspect and is scared. I'm not saying I think this is the case as I think there are a few scenarios that could play out. But where was the truck prior to MB's driveway and why was it moved? Why was the incinerator moved? There are still a lot of why's for me in this case and based on this I find certain opinions unlikely. JMO



I dont believe the incinerator was bought for bodies. I also don't believe WM stumbled on anything. I think he may well have noticed something that may harm his family, and suffered the consequences, or he committed suicide as LE first determined. JMO

Well according to LE and the evidence they have, MWJ sold DM the gun which was used to kill WM. MS is not the one charged in WM's murder, therefore it's quite likely MS didn't even know anything about WM's murder and perhaps believed it was what WM's death was originally ruled as, a suicide. I also highly doubt DM shared with anyone that he murdered his father. Why would he? That would just be too risky if a friend(s) knew. So yes, DM found what he needed to murder his father, the gun which he obtained from MWJ. And no, I do not for one second believe there was a "hitman". LE would have figured that out by now. Obviously they have the evidence to prove otherwise.

IMO it was arrogance on DM's part to show up without a disguise. I'll tell you why. He figured the best a witness could give for his description would be; male, age 25 to 30, 6' tall, 180 lbs, light brown, short hair, a few days of facial hair growth, eye colour, orange, long, sleeved shirt, jeans and sneakers. That description would fit probably at least 50% of the male population in Ontario. It's my opinion MS was afraid of being seen by a witness, which means he had more of a conscience than DM, he knew he was being involved in a crime of theft and he was fearful of being identified by SB. MS was into petty crimes, not murder. Again it's my opinion MS believed they were there to steal TB's truck, not murder him. IIRC TB was murdered not too far/a short distance from his property. seems fairly likely it was DM who did the murder as he was the one in the truck with TB, while MS followed behind in DM's Yukon. Again, DM knew where he could get guns and how to use them, just as he had done in the past with his father and perhaps LB. Interesting to note with MS's, with the knowledge of his petty crimes, none of them was it claimed he had a gun or illegal gun on him when arrested.

Simpler way to get rid of bodies then incinerate them? Like how? Incinerating is the best way to dispose of someone and DNA the prep might leave behind. I suspect the truck was hidden in the hangar where DM perhaps also kept his trial. TB's truck was at the hangar prior to it being put into DM's trailer and then parked in MB's driveway. My personal opinion is that DM was not fearful of anything. How can someone who murdered their own father be fearful? Then turn around and murder their lover. Total arrogance yes, fearful no.
ALL MOO of course.

 

[Tamarind]

Well according to LE and the evidence they have, MWJ sold DM the gun which was used to kill WM. MS is not the one charged in WM's murder, therefore it's quite likely MS didn't even know anything about WM's murder and perhaps believed it was what WM's death was originally ruled as, a suicide. I also highly doubt DM shared with anyone that he murdered his father. Why would he? That would just be too risky if a friend(s) knew. So yes, DM found what he needed to murder his father, the gun which he obtained from MWJ. And no, I do not for one second believe there was a "hitman". LE would have figured that out by now. Obviously they have the evidence to prove otherwise.

Maybe there was no murder. LE seemed quite sure it was a suicide for some time. I am interested in knowing a little bit more about the alleged seller and dates etc. I don't see anything as obvious at all. Had it been obvious it would not have initially been ruled a suicide if it were not. I think there is more to be explained before I accept that WM was murdered by his son.

IMO it was arrogance on DM's part to show up without a disguise. I'll tell you why. He figured the best a witness could give for his description would be; male, age 25 to 30, 6' tall, 180 lbs, light brown, short hair, a few days of facial hair growth, eye colour, orange, long, sleeved shirt, jeans and sneakers. That description would fit probably at least 50% of the male population in Ontario. It's my opinion MS was afraid of being seen by a witness, which means he had more of a conscience than DM, he knew he was being involved in a crime of theft and he was fearful of being identified by SB. MS was into petty crimes, not murder. Again it's my opinion MS believed they were there to steal TB's truck, not murder him. IIRC TB was murdered not too far/a short distance from his property. seems fairly likely it was DM who did the murder as he was the one in the truck with TB, while MS followed behind in DM's Yukon. Again, DM knew where he could get guns and how to use them, just as he had done in the past with his father and perhaps LB. Interesting to note with MS's, with the knowledge of his petty crimes, none of them was it claimed he had a gun or illegal gun on him when arrested.

I don't think 50% off young males wear orange T shirts in Ontario. I also don't believe a young man would choose an orange t-shirt to go out an murder someone. I believe we were told that MS and DM are alleged to have been in the truck, not just DM. We also have no idea whether or not anyone got out at some point. Until we are given details of any gun allegation , we cant surmise that DM had access to guns or the alleged dealer.

Simpler way to get rid of bodies then incinerate them? Like how? Incinerating is the best way to dispose of someone and DNA the prep might leave behind. I suspect the truck was hidden in the hangar where DM perhaps also kept his trial. TB's truck was at the hangar prior to it being put into DM's trailer and then parked in MB's driveway. My personal opinion is that DM was not fearful of anything. How can someone who murdered their own father be fearful? Then turn around and murder their lover. Total arrogance yes, fearful no.
ALL MOO of course.

When someone has access to multiple vehicles and a helicopter I can think of far more places to put a body to avoid detection. DM could have gone anywhere and unloaded any type of cargo if he had wanted to. Burying bodies would draw less attention than an incinerator in my opinion. It's all too obvious that something isn't adding up. I don't believe LB was DM's lover. At best she was a short term ex from many months prior, from what I have read.

 

[ABro]

Maybe there was no murder. LE seemed quite sure it was a suicide for some time. I am interested in knowing a little bit more about the alleged seller and dates etc. I don't see anything as obvious at all. Had it been obvious it would not have initially been ruled a suicide if it were not. I think there is more to be explained before I accept that WM was murdered by his son.



I don't think 50% off young males wear orange T shirts in Ontario. I also don't believe a young man would choose an orange t-shirt to go out an murder someone. I believe we were told that MS and DM are alleged to have been in the truck, not just DM. We also have no idea whether or not anyone got out at some point. Until we are given details of any gun allegation , we cant surmise that DM had access to guns or the alleged dealer.g


When someone has access to multiple vehicles and a helicopter I can think of far more places to put a body to avoid detection. DM could have gone anywhere and unloaded any type of cargo if he had wanted to. Burying bodies would draw less attention than an incinerator in my opinion. It's all too obvious that something isn't adding up. I don't believe LB was DM's lover. At best she was a short term ex from many months prior, from what I have read.

I could have sworn you just said you were reserving judgment until you saw the evidence.

 

[Tamarind]

I could have sworn you just said you were reserving judgment until you saw the evidence.

What I actually said was that I like to presume innocence. My post was the same as everyone elses, an opinion. I am not sure what you are trying to get at. We all have opinions. The evidence can be dissected when it is released, even the lack of evidence will be interesting. HTH

I have made no absolute judgement, maybe you could show where you assume I have.

Maybe there was no murder. LE seemed quite sure it was a suicide for some time. I am interested in knowing a little bit more about the alleged seller and dates etc. I don't see anything as obvious at all. Had it been obvious it would not have initially been ruled a suicide if it were not. I think there is more to be explained before I accept that WM was murdered by his son.



I don't think 50% off young males wear orange T shirts in Ontario. I also don't believe a young man would choose an orange t-shirt to go out an murder someone. I believe we were told that MS and DM are alleged to have been in the truck, not just DM. We also have no idea whether or not anyone got out at some point. Until we are given details of any gun allegation , we cant surmise that DM had access to guns or the alleged dealer.g


When someone has access to multiple vehicles and a helicopter I can think of far more places to put a body to avoid detection. DM could have gone anywhere and unloaded any type of cargo if he had wanted to. Burying bodies would draw less attention than an incinerator in my opinion. It's all too obvious that something isn't adding up. I don't believe LB was DM's lover. At best she was a short term ex from many months prior, from what I have read.

 

[swedie]

Maybe there was no murder. LE seemed quite sure it was a suicide for some time. I am interested in knowing a little bit more about the alleged seller and dates etc. I don't see anything as obvious at all. Had it been obvious it would not have initially been ruled a suicide if it were not. I think there is more to be explained before I accept that WM was murdered by his son.



I don't think 50% off young males wear orange T shirts in Ontario. I also don't believe a young man would choose an orange t-shirt to go out an murder someone. I believe we were told that MS and DM are alleged to have been in the truck, not just DM. We also have no idea whether or not anyone got out at some point. Until we are given details of any gun allegation , we cant surmise that DM had access to guns or the alleged dealer.



When someone has access to multiple vehicles and a helicopter I can think of far more places to put a body to avoid detection. DM could have gone anywhere and unloaded any type of cargo if he had wanted to. Burying bodies would draw less attention than an incinerator in my opinion. It's all too obvious that something isn't adding up. I don't believe LB was DM's lover. At best she was a short term ex from many months prior, from what I have read.

BBM - ultimate words chosen "for some time" apparent that was then, this is now. LE are allowed to change their ruling and obviously have since new evidence has been discovered after LB and TB's murder. That is why DM is now facing first degree murder charge of his father. HTH. Of course there will be more explaining done to show DM murdered his father, that's what the trial is for. There will be explaining about how LE originally came to the conclusion in which they believed WM committed suicide, but then there will be the evidence collected more recently to show it was murder and not a suicide. WM's case is not the first case where errors were made in determining cause of death. It actually and unfortunately does happen. As for lovers:

Millard was charged with two more murders — that of his 72-year old father, Wayne, and Millard’s sometime lover, Laura Babcock, who disappeared from Toronto in the summer of 2012.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...rn-to-world-of-fast-cars-and-exotic-adventure

"I can say that [Babcock and Millard] were romantically linked, although I would not say they had a traditional dating relationship," said Det. Mike Carbone.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...had-relationship-with-bosma-accused-1.1399734

He also learned that she had begun a sexual relationship with Mr. Millard, a long-time friend, at some point in the first half of the year.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/what-if-game-haunts-babcock-friend/article18832997/

Carbone He said Millard and Babcock had a “romantic relationship,”[/B] but that it was not a “traditional dating” one.

http://news.nationalpost.com/toront...ing-woman-laura-babcock-through-phone-records

Tamarind, other then people pointing out the obvious and facts, there is nothing more we can do to try and assist you in figuring out this case. You will just have to be patient and wait until the trial to get the facts for yourself. Yes sometimes it is very difficult to figure out how some people can be so sick and evil, but it is true. There are many evil people in this world. Many can just disguise it quite well. IMO DM was one such person. But thankfully and eventually his luck ran out and he was caught red handed. I hate to speculate how many other innocent lives he could have taken and disposed of in his incinerator had DM not been caught on May 10, 2013. HTH and MOO.

 

[Tamarind]

BBM - ultimate words chosen "for some time" apparent that was then, this is now. LE are allowed to change their ruling and obviously have since new evidence has been discovered after LB and TB's murder. That is why DM is now facing first degree murder charge of his father. HTH. Of course there will be more explaining done to show DM murdered his father, that's what the trial is for. There will be explaining about how LE originally came to the conclusion in which they believed WM committed suicide, but then there will be the evidence collected more recently to show it was murder and not a suicide. WM's case is not the first case where errors were made in determining cause of death. It actually and unfortunately does happen. As for lovers:

rsbm

I'm aware that LE can make errors. Then or now.
Yes I said exactly that... she was an ex, from some months prior.

Tamarind, other then people pointing out the obvious and facts, there is nothing more we can do to try and assist you in figuring out this case. You will just have to be patient and wait until the trial to get the facts for yourself. Yes sometimes it is very difficult to figure out how some people can be so sick and evil, but it is true. There are many evil people in this world. Many can just disguise it quite well. IMO DM was one such person. But thankfully and eventually his luck ran out and he was caught red handed. I hate to speculate how many other innocent lives he could have taken and disposed of in his incinerator had DM not been caught on May 10, 2013. HTH and MOO.

I don't need anyone to help me with my opinions, thank you. I am also quite patient, thank you. Yes there are many evil, sick and twisted people in the world and they try to disguise it very well.

At this point I don't see that applying to DM but thank you for your opinion. I don't think luck or lack of has anything to do with this case. Consistent in your opinion for some time, I also am consistent in mine, thanks for clarifying your opinion.

 

[swedie]

rsbm

I'm aware that LE can make errors. Then or now.
Yes I said exactly that... she was an ex, from some months prior.




I don't need anyone to help me with my opinions, thank you. I am also quite patient, thank you. Yes there are many evil, sick and twisted people in the world and they try to disguise it very well.

At this point I don't see that applying to DM but thank you for your opinion. I don't think luck or lack of has anything to do with this case. Consistent in your opinion for some time, I also am consistent in mine, thanks for clarifying your opinion.

Tamarind, you said in your post #604, I don't believe LB was DM's lover. I provided you links to show otherwise, HTH to clarify to you they were lovers according to many sources including LE. Sorry if you don't like that fact, but it is a fact no matter how much one wants to deny it. Those links I provided are not the only links related to this fact if you care to further investigate and find them yourself. MOO.

 

[MsSherlock]

It seems strange to me that some uninvolved spectators are dying to have some 'skin in the game' and yet the very people who do have some skin in it likely look forward to an invasion of privacy and the spectre of public humiliation or reprisal from the media. It's a wonder any witness ever has the courage to testify at all, considering all the people already lined up and waiting to take a swipe at their hide. It must take a lot of bravery, in my opinion, to stand up to that kind of unnecessary pressure in the name of the truth and justice. To me, that takes real guts.

I agree Juballee- IMHO, it must be a horrible stress on witnesses and their loved ones to be dragged into trials like this. I think we've all seen news clips of MSM following witnesses and family members & friends of the accused down the sidewalks when they're covering more sensational trials. IMHO, that's the cruel reality of these high profile murder trials. I'm sure that many of the people that may be called to testify have gotten on with their life-it's been a long time since the arrests. Getting tossed back into it maybe tough. MOO

 

[swedie]

It seems strange to me that some uninvolved spectators are dying to have some 'skin in the game' and yet the very people who do have some skin in it likely look forward to an invasion of privacy and the spectre of public humiliation or reprisal from the media. It's a wonder any witness ever has the courage to testify at all, considering all the people already lined up and waiting to take a swipe at their hide. It must take a lot of bravery, in my opinion, to stand up to that kind of unnecessary pressure in the name of the truth and justice. To me, that takes real guts.

Yes it's crazy isn't it, what murderers put people through, such as their own families, friends and even complete strangers, all over the murderer's sick and evil fantasy. So many lives are affected by their perverse decisions and actions eh? And it's not just with the media either. In all cases, the victims will always be victims left to live without their loved ones so brutally and unnecessarily taken from them They will forever be tormented by thoughts and nightmares of what happened. Could be why I have no sympathy for the guilty who might be doing a bit of self pity in prisons/jails crying the blues of unfair treatment or slowly losing their minds. They brought it upon themselves, no sympathy whatsoever. IMO if I was related to or close to one of the accused, and not called as a witness, I would steer clear of the courthouse. Good thing they can always get access to transcripts if they want. Personally I'm not sure I would want to know the horrific details carried out by someone I once cared about, was related to, or thought I knew. MOO.

I guess we have the MSM to thank for providing us with a lot of the details we do know about this case and those involved. If it wasn't for the MSM we wouldn't know much of anything that goes on in our communities, province and the world and such. We certainly wouldn't be privy to the facts and evidence which will come out in court about these three murders...unless it's rumoured or people get court transcripts. I say a huge :tyou::yourock: to the media. Thank you for the arguments in courtrooms and providing us with our right to know.
ALL MOO.

 

[Tamarind]

Tamarind, you said in your post #604, I don't believe LB was DM's lover. I provided you links to show otherwise, HTH to clarify to you they were lovers according to many sources including LE. Sorry if you don't like that fact, but it is a fact no matter how much one wants to deny it. Those links I provided are not the only links related to this fact if you care to further investigate and find them yourself. MOO.

She was not his lover when she went missing !! She may have been months prior as she was an ex HTH. It is of no matter to me whether they were lovers and I dont believe it has any bearing on the case. JMO.

I'm not sure why this is an issue. She was not in a relationship with him when she went missing. If you can show otherwise, go ahead. TIA

 

[Tamarind]

Simpler way to get rid of bodies then incinerate them? Like how? Incinerating is the best way to dispose of someone and DNA the prep might leave behind. I suspect the truck was hidden in the hangar where DM perhaps also kept his trial. TB's truck was at the hangar prior to it being put into DM's trailer and then parked in MB's driveway. My personal opinion is that DM was not fearful of anything. How can someone who murdered their own father be fearful? Then turn around and murder their lover. Total arrogance yes, fearful no.
ALL MOO of course.

When someone has access to multiple vehicles and a helicopter I can think of far more places to put a body to avoid detection. DM could have gone anywhere and unloaded any type of cargo if he had wanted to. Burying bodies would draw less attention than an incinerator in my opinion. It's all too obvious that something isn't adding up. I don't believe LB was DM's lover. At best she was a short term ex from many months prior, from what I have read.

Swedie your post #603 claimed that he murdered his lover !

My post said that I don't believe they were lovers ( ie when he allegedly killed her, as you implied)

You then keep coming back to what I said without connecting the fact that it was in response to your post. I am sorry you are confused. I hope this helps put it into perspective for you. It gets tedious having to keep going back and explain things that have been written in response to posts, especially when it is implied, that for some reason, I have a problem with two people I have never met being intimate. I hope this clarifies it for you. My apologies if it wasn't clear enough before. HTH

 

[SnooperDuper]

She was not his lover when she went missing !! She may have been months prior as she was an ex HTH. It is of no matter to me whether they were lovers and I dont believe it has any bearing on the case. JMO.

I'm not sure why this is an issue. She was not in a relationship with him when she went missing. If you can show otherwise, go ahead. TIA

Actually although we have heard of when the relationship begun, we never heard when it ended. It could have ended on July 3-4, 2012.

If you can show otherwise, go ahead.

 

[Sillybilly]

If DM was in fact the wealthy, photographer, pilot boyfriend that LB spoke to her uncle TR about, that conversation was only 2 weeks before her disappearance:

from:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ching-millard-farm/+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

Ryan: “The last time I spoke to Laura was two weeks prior to her disappearance and it was in regards to her bringing a gentleman to my wife’s, my wedding, and my wife and I both think that it was Dellen (Millard) she was talking about, just I believe referring to him as a pilot, photographer and wealthy, and what not so we didn’t want her to come with a brand new boyfriend to the wedding, just, it didn’t seem right to me. That’s it, that’s all I got.”

 

[swedie]

And this Tamarind, HTH. Otherwise please provide a link which shows DM and LB were not lovers. For all we know, they may have been doing what "lovers" do just prior to DM allegedly murdering her.

That June, Thomas Ryan called his niece to talk about his upcoming wedding near the end of the month. She told him she wanted to bring a new date, but was upset when Ryan said no.

“She said he’d be taking her travelling for a little bit. She was impressed that he was a good photographer and had money and a good-looking fella,” Ryan said about the new flame he now believes was Millard. Babcock never showed up to the wedding.

In late July, Babcock’s last phone bill arrived in the mail. It showed no calls made after July 3. Her last eight phone calls that day and the previous day were to Millard. She told friends she and Millard were sleeping together.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...ck_leaves_lingering_questions_for_police.html

I am not the one who is confused on this issue of DM and LB being lovers, but apparently you are. Therefore I hope I can clarify for you. I said (603): How can someone who murdered their own father be fearful? Then turn around and murder their lover. Total arrogance yes, fearful no.

Then you quoted my post saying (604): I don't believe LB was DM's lover. At best she was a short term ex from many months prior, from what I have read.

This information also goes to show DM and LB were still in contact July 3, 2012, according to her phone records and by SL's account from meeting up with DM on July 27, 2012, a bit more than three weeks of him allegedly murdering her.

“First, he denies all the calls: ‘Maybe we spoke once or twice, but definitely not eight times.’ Flat-out denies it,” Mr. Lerner recalled. “Then I showed him the phone bill and his tone totally changed: ‘Okay, yeah, we spoke. She was looking for drugs and for a place to stay,’ and he denied her on both of those requests. And then he just had to go. He was in a rush – had to go.”

He also learned that she had begun a sexual relationship with Mr. Millard, a long-time friend, at some point in the first half of the year.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/what-if-game-haunts-babcock-friend/article18832997/

Hope that clears up your confusion whether DM and LB were lovers. Apparently they were according to LE and MSM reports. MOO.

 

[swedie]

[/B]

Swedie your post #603 claimed that he murdered his lover !

My post said that I don't believe they were lovers ( ie when he allegedly killed her, as you implied)

You then keep coming back to what I said without connecting the fact that it was in response to your post. I am sorry you are confused. I hope this helps put it into perspective for you. It gets tedious having to keep going back and explain things that have been written in response to posts, especially when it is implied, that for some reason, I have a problem with two people I have never met being intimate. I hope this clarifies it for you. My apologies if it wasn't clear enough before. HTH

BTW I did not imply they were lovers at the time DM murdered LB, in my post 603. Again, I said, How can someone who murdered their own father be fearful? Then turn around and murder their lover. A lover is a lover regardless of when they were lovers. But now that we examine the articles again, DM and LB very well could have been lovers right up until her death. MOO and HTH.

 

[Tamarind]

If DM was in fact the wealthy, photographer, pilot boyfriend that LB spoke to her uncle TR about, that conversation was only 2 weeks before her disappearance:

from:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ching-millard-farm/+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

That would depend of IF it was who she was referring to and/or in which concept she was referring. My son has many girlfriends, he is not intimate with them all. My daughter has girlfriends and she is not intimate with any. They were obviously on speaking terms to be in contact by phone, unless someone else was using DM's phone. JMO

Mr Ryan also said that he didn't want a brand new boyfriend coming to the wedding. If media is correct then he would not have been a brand new boyfriend. He would have been on the scene as a boyfriend for some time which is contradicted by the mother.
Something doesn't add up again.

 

[Tamarind]

Actually although we have heard of when the relationship begun, we never heard when it ended. It could have ended on July 3-4, 2012.

If you can show otherwise, go ahead.

We only have media reports to go on. Had they been in a close intimate relationship I doubt very much she would have been asking SL for a place to stay before she disappeared and spending time with him. JMO

 

[Tamarind]

BTW I did not imply they were lovers at the time DM murdered LB, in my post 603. Again, I said, How can someone who murdered their own father be fearful? Then turn around and murder their lover. A lover is a lover regardless of when they were lovers. But now that we examine the articles again, DM and LB very well could have been lovers right up until her death. MOO and HTH.

He would not have turned around and murdered his lover, it would have been his ex lover (if they had been). No point bickering over semantics in my opinion. If anyone has any proof of the exact dates and level of intimacy, if any, of DM and LB's alleged relationship, could they post it please?