General Discussion and Theories #4

[Tamarind]

And this Tamarind, HTH. Otherwise please provide a link which shows DM and LB were not lovers. For all we know, they may have been doing what "lovers" do just prior to DM allegedly murdering her.

That June, Thomas Ryan called his niece to talk about his upcoming wedding near the end of the month. She told him she wanted to bring a new date, but was upset when Ryan said no.

“She said he’d be taking her travelling for a little bit. She was impressed that he was a good photographer and had money and a good-looking fella,” Ryan said about the new flame he now believes was Millard. Babcock never showed up to the wedding.

In late July, Babcock’s last phone bill arrived in the mail. It showed no calls made after July 3. Her last eight phone calls that day and the previous day were to Millard. She told friends she and Millard were sleeping together.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...ck_leaves_lingering_questions_for_police.html

I am not the one who is confused on this issue of DM and LB being lovers, but apparently you are. Therefore I hope I can clarify for you. I said (603): How can someone who murdered their own father be fearful? Then turn around and murder their lover. Total arrogance yes, fearful no.

Then you quoted my post saying (604): I don't believe LB was DM's lover. At best she was a short term ex from many months prior, from what I have read.

This information also goes to show DM and LB were still in contact July 3, 2012, according to her phone records and by SL's account from meeting up with DM on July 27, 2012, a bit more than three weeks of him allegedly murdering her.

“First, he denies all the calls: ‘Maybe we spoke once or twice, but definitely not eight times.’ Flat-out denies it,” Mr. Lerner recalled. “Then I showed him the phone bill and his tone totally changed: ‘Okay, yeah, we spoke. She was looking for drugs and for a place to stay,’ and he denied her on both of those requests. And then he just had to go. He was in a rush – had to go.”

He also learned that she had begun a sexual relationship with Mr. Millard, a long-time friend, at some point in the first half of the year.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/what-if-game-haunts-babcock-friend/article18832997/

Hope that clears up your confusion whether DM and LB were lovers. Apparently they were according to LE and MSM reports. MOO.

Thats a lot of hearsay Swedie. Either way it doesn't appear that they were in an intimate relationship in the summer of 2012. She was relying on SL and spending time with him. She also had his laptop/ipad. I would have expected a little more information to have been revealed in order to believe that DM and LB were intimate at that time.

 

[Juballee]

If DM was in fact the wealthy, photographer, pilot boyfriend that LB spoke to her uncle TR about, that conversation was only 2 weeks before her disappearance:

from:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ching-millard-farm/+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

Flying is an expensive hobby, like sailing or racing, so it only makes sense for a pilot to be described as wealthy, especially by someone who didn't have enough money for rent. And half my friends consider themselves amateur photographers, it is a very common hobby. Put together I feel that this description could fit a lot of people. Especially when you add in the fact that when you hang out with one pilot, it increases the odds of you meeting other pilots.

Are the Josie photos, that he was asked to take by the model, the only photos we have heard of so far that might allow DM to be described as a photographer? Because in my opinion, that happened so long ago, it's unlikely that he would still be considered a photographer.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Flying is an expensive hobby, like sailing or racing, so it only makes sense for a pilot to be described as wealthy, especially by someone who didn't have enough money for rent. And half my friends consider themselves amateur photographers, it is a very common hobby. Put together I feel that this description could fit a lot of people. Especially when you add in the fact that when you hang out with one pilot, it increases the odds of you meeting other pilots.

Are the Josie photos, that he was asked to take by the model, the only photos we have heard of so far that might allow DM to be described as a photographer? Because in my opinion, that happened so long ago, it's unlikely that he would still be considered a photographer.

But there is another clue, and that is that the uncle believed the pilot was part of a "bad lot" that LB had been hanging out with. DM and his buddies certainly fit that description.

How many wealthy, photographer pilots that hang out with a bad crowd are there? You know, drugs, guns, thefts...not the usual agenda for a pilot.

 

[Juballee]

But there is another clue, and that is that the uncle believed the pilot was part of a "bad lot" that LB had been hanging out with. DM and his buddies certainly fit that description.

How many wealthy, photographer pilots that hang out with a bad crowd are there? You know, drugs, guns, thefts...not the usual agenda for a pilot.

What was that Denzil Washington movie where he was a pilot called?

 

[Tamarind]

What was that Denzil Washington movie where he was a pilot called?

Flight?

 

[MsSherlock]

Flying is an expensive hobby, like sailing or racing, so it only makes sense for a pilot to be described as wealthy, especially by someone who didn't have enough money for rent. And half my friends consider themselves amateur photographers, it is a very common hobby. Put together I feel that this description could fit a lot of people. Especially when you add in the fact that when you hang out with one pilot, it increases the odds of you meeting other pilots.

Are the Josie photos, that he was asked to take by the model, the only photos we have heard of so far that might allow DM to be described as a photographer? Because in my opinion, that happened so long ago, it's unlikely that he would still be considered a photographer.

Juballee, IMO, LB did not come from impoverished roots. She had also graduated from University, so IMHO, even though LB may have had some emotional issues and suffered from depression or bipolar disorder, I don't think she'd have a hard time differentiating between "wealthy" and "normal working class" people.
Being a pilot does not equate to being "wealthy". Not all pilots are hobby pilots. I'm a pilot who does it for a hobby and I'm not wealthy. It costs me less to go flying for 3 hours than it does to go golfing at a ClubLinks course for 18 holes. I would consider people hanging out at the private golf course near the airport wealthier than the guys flying as a hobby at the airport I fly out of. A single engine plane will only set you back as much as another car in your driveway. Also, by all accounts, DM had his own aviation thing going on. Millardair planes and his helicopter were in his own hangar. He didn't belong to any flying clubs and there are no reports of him socializing with any of the general aviation crowd at Waterloo. MOO leaves me believing that the guy she wanted to take to the wedding is either DM or a clone. I truly believe that LB may have thought that DM genuinely cared for her welfare and loved her if she could turn herself around. I'm speculating here, but I'm thinking that she may have been waiting for DM to cut his ties with CN so they could be a full time number.
It would make sense to me that if DM was promising LB more, she may have been more confused, desperate and depressed than ever. Her dropping her dog and shoe box with money in it off at her parents place kind of indicates to me that she thought she was going somewhere. Maybe a romantic getaway? A treat for being so patient? IMHO, DM was the guy she was referring to. RIP LB

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Laura Babcock - he (DM) was "romantically linked to". Noudga was Millard’s girlfriend at the time of the Bosma murder.
- See more at: http://www.bullfax.com/?q=node-dell...is-father-and-missing-to#sthash.vNQDRFPy.dpuf

When Shawn Lerner last saw Laura Babcock, he checked her into a Toronto hotel, took her out for dinner and lent her his iPad to look for apartments.
After almost a year, a Toronto Police investigation had proven unsuccessful in finding Mr. Lerner’s ex-girlfriend, who disappeared in late June 2012.
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...spect-dellen-millard-before-her-disappearance
In late July, Babcock’s last phone bill arrived in the mail. It showed no calls made after July 3. Her last eight phone calls that day and the previous day were to Millard. She told friends she and Millard were sleeping together.
http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...ck_leaves_lingering_questions_for_police.html

 

[Deleted member 102539]

After graduating from English and drama at the University of Toronto, Babcock struggled to find meaningful work, so she stayed on for a bit at the toy store and worked as an extra in a few locally produced movies.
By then, Babcock’s brain had already begun to turn on her. She grew restless at home and fought with her parents over chores and house rules. Both sides agreed: Laura should move out.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...ck_leaves_lingering_questions_for_police.html

Maybe LB was the first to have contact with the "bad lot", then MS and eventually DM? :dunno:

 

[Arnie M]

He would not have turned around and murdered his lover, it would have been his ex lover (if they had been). No point bickering over semantics in my opinion. If anyone has any proof of the exact dates and level of intimacy, if any, of DM and LB's alleged relationship, could they post it please?

Exact dates ?? .... look up the last person LB was phoning before she went missing

<modsnip>

 

[Juballee]

Juballee, IMO, LB did not come from impoverished roots. She had also graduated from University, so IMHO, even though LB may have had some emotional issues and suffered from depression or bipolar disorder, I don't think she'd have a hard time differentiating between "wealthy" and "normal working class" people.
Being a pilot does not equate to being "wealthy". Not all pilots are hobby pilots. I'm a pilot who does it for a hobby and I'm not wealthy. It costs me less to go flying for 3 hours than it does to go golfing at a ClubLinks course for 18 holes. I would consider people hanging out at the private golf course near the airport wealthier than the guys flying as a hobby at the airport I fly out of. A single engine plane will only set you back as much as another car in your driveway. Also, by all accounts, DM had his own aviation thing going on. Millardair planes and his helicopter were in his own hangar. He didn't belong to any flying clubs and there are no reports of him socializing with any of the general aviation crowd at Waterloo. MOO leaves me believing that the guy she wanted to take to the wedding is either DM or a clone. I truly believe that LB may have thought that DM genuinely cared for her welfare and loved her if she could turn herself around. I'm speculating here, but I'm thinking that she may have been waiting for DM to cut his ties with CN so they could be a full time number.
It would make sense to me that if DM was promising LB more, she may have been more confused, desperate and depressed than ever. Her dropping her dog and shoe box with money in it off at her parents place kind of indicates to me that she thought she was going somewhere. Maybe a romantic getaway? A treat for being so patient? IMHO, DM was the guy she was referring to. RIP LB

Funny, all the pilots I know are not normal working class guys, if there even is such a thing. The cost of having a second car in the driveway is usually mitigated by the second person in the house needing that car to go to work, and in turn helping to pay for that car. One guy who owns two cars just for his personal use would not be considered a normal working class guy, in my opinion. And again, when you are sleeping on couches and asking exes for favours, any guy with a good paying job could seem wealthy to you, it's a relative opinion.

I don't care care how romantic the retreat is, a woman who is going to go on a vacation without any of her own money is asking for trouble. When is the last time anyone here went away on a vacation and left all their money behind in a shoebox? And if you were planning on coming back for the money, wouldn't you have to tell someone, with a note saying that you will be back and not to spend it, perhaps?

To me, the acts of dropping off her worldly possessions with her family is a classic sign of impending suicide. It is a way of cutting ties to the world, because the person knows that where they are going they will not need valuables ever again. If she had not dropped her beloved dog off at her family's home, if she had been staying in a hotel, and had committed suicide in a way where her body was not found immediately, what would have been the immediate outcome? No one would have been there to care for her dog, it would have gotten hungry and soiled the carpet. Other guests would have complained when it barked, and management would have gone in, and tried to contact her. When they couldn't contact her, they would have taken the dog to the humane society where it would have been put up for adoption, and her contents would be held for a short time and then disposed of. The shoebox full of money would have disappeared at some point, no doubt.

She dropped her stuff off at home because she was settling her affairs in my opinion. It not something you do before you go on vacation, or are murdered, it is something you do before committing suicide.

WARNING SIGNS OF SUICIDE

1. Expressing suicidal feelings directly or bringing up the topic of suicide.
   
2. Giving away prized possessions, settling affairs, making out a will.
   

http://www.ovhs.info/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/WARNING-SIGNS-OF-SUICIDE.pdf

 

[Arnie M]

<snip>
To me, the acts of dropping off her worldly possessions with her family is a classic sign of impending suicide. It is a way of cutting ties to the world, because the person knows that where they are going they will not need valuables ever again. If she had not dropped her beloved dog off at her family's home, if she had been staying in a hotel, and had committed suicide in a way where her body was not found immediately, what would have been the immediate outcome? No one would have been there to care for her dog, it would have gotten hungry and soiled the carpet. Other guests would have complained when it barked, and management would have gone in, and tried to contact her. When they couldn't contact her, they would have taken the dog to the humane society where it would have been put up for adoption, and her contents would be held for a short time and then disposed of. The shoebox full of money would have disappeared at some point, no doubt.

She dropped her stuff off at home because she was settling her affairs in my opinion. It not something you do before you go on vacation, or are murdered, it is something you do before committing suicide.
<snip>

I think the same , and have all along. With her mental health issues and the downward slide in her lifestyle it could be very well be possible that was her plan

But I see the possibility it was taken one step farther into a "friend-assisted suicide" (for lack of a better word) , LB wanted "out" , DM & associates were aware of it , and they maybe conjured up an idea to accomplish her wish as well as fulfill a macabre desire of their own. I even consider it could have been used for an underground "snuff" video. I keep going back to hints from a reporter who said the public will be stunned by some of the things going on. And that would surely do it.

Many heroin overdoses have been suspected suicides but hard to prove , and we certainly know pharmaceutical drug suicides are common ... as unpleasant as the thought is , it would be a pleasant way to exit , Our parliaments debate it continually (doctor assisted suicides)

 

[matou]

People who own dogs know life can be tricky trying to do things and go places without bringing the dog along. Also many places don't allow dogs. She likely just needed to get rid of her dog to make her life a bit easier if she was always on the move, wanting to travel, etc. JMO

 

[Tamarind]

People who own dogs know life can be tricky trying to do things and go places without bringing the dog along. Also many places don't allow dogs. She likely just needed to get rid of her dog to make her life a bit easier if she was always on the move, wanting to travel, etc. JMO

Getting rid of a dog may make someones life a little easier for travelling, but surely getting rid of your money would make it more difficult. I have never managed to travel without funds. JMO

 

[Sillybilly]

People who own dogs know life can be tricky trying to do things and go places without bringing the dog along. Also many places don't allow dogs. She likely just needed to get rid of her dog to make her life a bit easier if she was always on the move, wanting to travel, etc. JMO

July 2 LB contacted her friend NM looking for a place to stay. She told her friend she ditched the dog because it had become too much of a burden. At the time she dropped the dog at her parents, phoned her friend NM, called DM, she was still looking for a place to live, not a place to commit suicide.

As for the money, we have no idea how much money she had in her possession compared to how much she left in the shoebox when she dropped the dog. She may have kept funds back to spend on her trip with the bf that, according to her uncle TR, was going to take her travelling.

 

[Tamarind]

July 2 LB contacted her friend NM looking for a place to stay. She told her friend she ditched the dog because it had become too much of a burden. At the time she dropped the dog at her parents, phoned her friend NM, called DM, she was still looking for a place to live, not a place to commit suicide.

Deciding to commit suicide often happens over time. It also is opportunistic in some cases. Sometimes it happens when feelings are at their lowest. We have no way of knowing how many times she may have contemplated suicide and no way of knowing whether she had reached her limit. Sounds to me that if she was not getting any luck with a place to stay and was down, she could have decided at any time.

As for the money, we have no idea how much money she had in her possession compared to how much she left in the shoebox when she dropped the dog. She may have kept funds back to spend on her trip with the bf that, according to her uncle TR, was going to take her travelling.

We don't know enough IMO to determine whether there was much truth in anything. Why were funds in a shoebox and not a bank account ? I am guessing she had a bank account for her pay to be paid into. I wonder where the money in the shoebox came from? Did she empty her bank account and put it in a shoebox to save her family having to get permission to get at her funds in the event of her demise?

 

[Tamarind]

I think the same , and have all along. With her mental health issues and the downward slide in her lifestyle it could be very well be possible that was her plan

I agree, suicide does seem high in the realm of possibilities.

But I see the possibility it was taken one step farther into a "friend-assisted suicide" (for lack of a better word) , LB wanted "out" , DM & associates were aware of it , and they maybe conjured up an idea to accomplish her wish as well as fulfill a macabre desire of their own. I even consider it could have been used for an underground "snuff" video. I keep going back to hints from a reporter who said the public will be stunned by some of the things going on. And that would surely do it.

How do you know DM and associates were aware of anything like suicide? Hints from reporters can be quite vague and may not reflect the true situation IMO. Friend assisted suicide seems unlikely to me, there would be more likelihood to have found a body IMO. Snuff murders would leave evidence somewhere, and DM was not part of the blood and gore video IIRC.

Many heroin overdoses have been suspected suicides but hard to prove , and we certainly know pharmaceutical drug suicides are common ... as unpleasant as the thought is , it would be a pleasant way to exit , Our parliaments debate it continually (doctor assisted suicides)

I agree. Maybe she was phoning so many people to get drugs....to get enough to be successful with suicide. There are many remote places to hide as drugs take effect IMO.

I don't agree with doctors deciding on when people should exit FWIW.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I think the issue between DM and LB was personal. There was a pregnancy, a mounting drug debt, or just her instability (she was known to have called police on her boyfriend before).

I think DM needed to get rid of LB, and that some people in the Help Find Laura group kinda knew that she was never going to be found.

I don't think it was a suicide because that's a scary process. If you start thinking about the process of dying, and how things are going to go down, it's actually truly scary. She's be seeking assurances and dropping hints to lots of people that she was facing a scary decision if she were suicidal. LB doesn't seem to have been a girl with great emotional fortitude and an ability to keep a secret to herself. It would be a great stress to her, and with her emotional labile state, everyone would know about it.

It makes sense that LB dropped off her dog if she were going to stay with DM, who already had a lot of pets. If you upset the balance in a pet household, it can lead to furry members of the family marking their territory or fighting. Sometimes it is best not to introduce a new animal. Perhaps the money was an apology to her parents for dumping off this responsibility of hers on them.

I think DM is at the centre of all three cases, just as he likes to be the centre of attention with his new Padawan braid. I see him as the boss, the leader, the instigator, the manipulator.

 

[Tamarind]

I think the issue between DM and LB was personal. There was a pregnancy, a mounting drug debt, or just her instability (she was known to have called police on her boyfriend before).

What was the issue between them, I must have missed the link? Can you also link to the matter of a pregnancy as I cant seem to find that or the mounting debt either. She called the police on the boyfriend in late 2011 I believe. I don't believe she has had reason to call them on DM as there does not appear to be any information to support that.

I think DM needed to get rid of LB, and that some people in the Help Find Laura group kinda knew that she was never going to be found.

I think people gathered she wouldn't be found after so much time had passed.

I don't think it was a suicide because that's a scary process. If you start thinking about the process of dying, and how things are going to go down, it's actually truly scary. She's be seeking assurances and dropping hints to lots of people that she was facing a scary decision if she were suicidal. LB doesn't seem to have been a girl with great emotional fortitude and an ability to keep a secret to herself. It would be a great stress to her, and with her emotional labile state, everyone would know about it.

We may find the process of suicide scary but those contemplating it often dont. Suicidal people do not seek assurances in many cases. Sometimes suicides are random. A lot of people have apparently said her emotional state was dire. SL even made mention.

It makes sense that LB dropped off her dog if she were going to stay with DM, who already had a lot of pets. If you upset the balance in a pet household, it can lead to furry members of the family marking their territory or fighting. Sometimes it is best not to introduce a new animal. Perhaps the money was an apology to her parents for dumping off this responsibility of hers on them.

I am not sure how anything links to her going to stay with DM. DM''s home wasn't exactly small judging from the location and area and the amount of guests who allegedly stayed there. So plenty of rooms to house one more dog I'm sure. If the money was an apology I feel an apology note would have accompanied it. JMO

I think DM is at the centre of all three cases, just as he likes to be the centre of attention with his new Padawan braid. I see him as the boss, the leader, the instigator, the manipulator.

I see him as none of those things but I do he him as being an easy target for users, criminals and blackmailers. JMO

 

[cansleuther]

She called the police on the boyfriend in late 2011 I believe. I don't believe she has had reason to call them on DM as there does not appear to be any information to support that.

It was actually March of 2012 when LB pressed charges against DA. The alleged assault took place a month before.

A month later, Babcock went to police. In March 2012, Austerweil was charged with assaulting her, theft under $5,000 (what he owed for the vet bill) and sexually assaulting her friend.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2014/06/07/dellen_millard_murder_of_laura_babcock_leaves_lingering_questions_for_police.html

 

[SnooperDuper]

It was actually March of 2012 when LB pressed charges against DA. The alleged assault took place a month before.



http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2014/06/07/dellen_millard_murder_of_laura_babcock_leaves_lingering_questions_for_police.html

So, very recent to the date of her disappearance.