General Discussion Thread #1 -Bail Hearing

[Carol70]

#OscarPistorius OP is sobbing

Seems he managed to do much better today with the tears only starting to cry now!!

 

[Lola]

once Schedule 6 falls, the bail part is easy?

 

[Lola]

Roux: Botha conceded bat not used to hit Reeva. He conceded that bloos on bat came from the scene. @eNCAnews #OscarPistorius

Roux: Botha knew if he denied saying that bail for #OscarPistorius wouldn't be a problem, there'd be big problems. We have witnesses.

Roux argues that Botha tailored his evidence to incriminate #OscarPistorius as much as possible, ignored mitigating evidence @eNCAnews

 

[Lola]

Roux: there was no motive for murder. This was a extremely loving relationship. #OscarPistorius cries as brother comforts him @eNCAnews

 

[Carol70]

once Schedule 6 falls, the bail part is easy?

practically a given!!

 

[jandkmom]

I have to think that this could have been an accident until they prove murder to me and right now they are not.

I was just the opposite. I thought that he had probably gotten the FB message from the other guy, OP had seen it. They argued. They went to bed and then in the middle of the night she went to bathroom to either read or write a text, he woke up and realized it and went crazy. But, the more the defense brings out and the more holes in the prosecution's case, the less likely I see for a conviction. I still don't believe the intruder story though, but before this is over, who knows.

 

[Carol70]

EWN Reporter‏@ewnreporter

#OscarPistorius Roux: the firearm accidentally going off does not prove this is a person with a propensity to commit crime. BB
First confirmation that there was a shooting at an resturant.(that ive heard anyway)

 

[Carol70]

He will not walk away from this...the only way he will walk is if the state/police totally bungles the case by some form of ineptitude (similarly displayed by Botha yesterday) or dockets/files get lost then the case will be struck off the roll (meaning thrown out of court)...otherwise, he will still be facing a murder change regardless but if the defence keeps this up and the state carrys on the way they are...he could possibly get off with a suspended sentence (being the best outcome)

 

[Carol70]

EWN Reporter‏@ewnreporter

#OscarPistorius we adjourn - Nair says there appears to be some threat of some kind outside. BB

??????

 

[otyikondo]

I was just the opposite. I thought that he had probably gotten the FB message from the other guy, OP had seen it. They argued. They went to bed and then in the middle of the night she went to bathroom to either read or write a text, he woke up and realized it and went crazy. But, the more the defense brings out and the more holes in the prosecution's case, the less likely I see for a conviction. I still don't believe the intruder story though, but before this is over, who knows.

Intruder story. Tick.
Intruder story debunking routine. Tick.

Gregory (from Scotland Yard): "Is there any other point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
Sherlock Holmes: "To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time."
Gregory: "The dog did nothing in the night-time."
Holmes: "That was the curious incident."

Arthur Conan Doyle (Silver Blaze)

OP had dogs. Serious dogs. I've seen pictures. They'd eat small dogs for breakfast. They were outside. I would expect the area also had CCTV, but the dogs are a significant factor. How come they didn't bark like crazy at this assumed intruder, who was apparently attempting to gain access to an upper floor window right in front of their noses?

Had the intruder perhaps tempted them with a juicy steak (or perhaps more topically, with a nice lump of horsemeat filled with bute painkillers that put them to sleep)?

How come we've heard NOTHING about their (non-) role in all this?

 

[Lola]

14:37 - Roux: Father's ammunition in his house has nothing to do with Oscar Pistorius propensity for violence.

14:36 - Roux says when Oscar threatened to break soccer player's legs it was 'just an expression'.

14:36 - Mandy Wiener says: Oscar Pistorius seems to break down momentarily, his brother comforts him. Shoulders hunched, despite laughs in court at Roux comment.

14:35 - Roux: The firearm accidentally going off does not prove this is a person with a propensity to commit crime.

14:34 - Roux on Pistorius: "He has a clean track record." Don't think the pun was intended, says Phillip de Wet.

14:33 - Roux: This was a true and loving relationship with no motive to kill.

14:31 - Mandy Wiener says Roux is gesticulating all over the places, using hands to make his point for emphasis. Knocks glasses on podium.

14:31 - Defence trying to argue there was nothing to infer any motive, [they] had a loving relationship.

14:29 - Pistorius hunched over, body heaving, sobbing hard, according to reporters.

14:27 - Roux: We ask you [Nair] to reconsider your ruling... There exists no objective facts that show this should be treated as a schedule six offence [premeditated murder].

14:27 Roux: You cannot confuse any argument with a planned murder.

14:25 - Roux: There were no eyewitnesses. There will only be forensic evidence about events in the house.

14:25 - Oscar Pistorius crying for the first time today, leant forward, face red, veins in temple pulsing, says Aislinn Laing.

14:24 - Roux: Botha's evidence can be apty sumarised as extremely poor, resulted in the "monumental collapse of State's case".

14:24 - Karyn Maughan tweets that National Police Commissioner Riah Phiyega is expected to address media at the 16:00 press conference. A new lead investigator on the case is also expected to be announced.

14:23 - Roux: "very rare that a witness will lie about everything", after Nair asked why he believes Botha [about the] phone calls.

14:22 - Roux: Botha must have known what was on cellphone records and that it didn't help his case.

14:22 - Pistorius slumped forward in dock, overcome by emotion, David Smith tweets.

14:20 - Roux: Botha admitted that he knew of no phone call that could have formed part of a pre-planned offence.

14:20 - Roux: Botha conceded that the bat was not used to hit Reeva. He conceded that blood on the bat came from the scene.

14:19 - Roux moves on to the bloody bat. Says there is no possibility that the bat could have played any role other than that which Pistorius puts forward.

14:18 - Roux: Botha knew if he denied saying that bail for Oscar Pistorius wouldn't be a problem, there'd be big problems. We have witnesses.

14:18 - Nair: Would Botha have conceded mistakes if [he] wanted Oscar Pistorius behind bars at all cost? Roux: He had no choice.

14:17 - Roux: He is an internationally known athlete. Why would he flee?

14:17 - Roux argues that Botha tailored his evidence to incriminate Oscar Pistorius as much as possible, ignored mitigating evidence.

14:16 - Roux: [The] idea that Oscar Pistorius might skip bail "does not accord with common sense".

14:16 - Roux: Botha supported bail, now opposes it. What changed? We don't know.

14:15 - Roux: Botha was not a credible witness. We cannot say that he would tell the whole truth.

14:14 - Roux: [Botha] then introduces the evidence of the woman who heard screaming and the shots - a vague piece of evidence.

14:13 - Roux arguing possibility/probability. Could this or that have happened? Yes. But did it? Probably not.

 

[otyikondo]

He will not walk away from this...the only way he will walk is if the state/police totally bungles the case by some form of ineptitude (similarly displayed by Botha yesterday) or dockets/files get lost then the case will be struck off the roll (meaning thrown out of court)...otherwise, he will still be facing a murder change regardless but if the defence keeps this up and the state carrys on the way they are...he could possibly get off with a suspended sentence (being the best outcome)

No, but he will in all probability walk free from this hearing. I'm pretty sure he's toast anyway. Nobody respectable is going to touch him with a long pole from now on, but yes, there is a possibility he could get this brought down to a more manageable negligent homicide charge and a suspended sentence.

It all depends what comes out when the blindfolds come off and we play for real (emphasising that what has happened so far is basically a very public sideshow).

 

[Lola]

14:45 - And we are back...no word on what the "threat" was.

14:41 - Magistrate leaves very quickly. Says something going on outside.

14:39 - Adjourned suddenly due to a "threat of some kind" outside.

14:39 - Is there any reasonable, acceptable reason why he won't come to court to stand his trial, Roux asks. I don't believe it, he says.

14:38 - Roux on flight risk: "It borders as close as can be on impossible. That's why I was amazed by the evidence of the investigating officer."

Roux: We all know the applicant, we can see what's going on around us. He's a professional, he's an icon, he represents so many things.

 

[Lola]

#OscarPistorius Roux concludes. Nair has a few questions. BB

#OscarPistorius Roux: he has given his full version, it makes sense, there is nothing to refute it - why should he still be jailed? BB

 

[Lola]

Nair: there is evidence in this bail application that #OscarPistorius asked friend to take fall for accidental gunshot fired in restaurant..

 

[Lola]

14:49 - Magistrate says one of the grounds against bail is the possibility the accused could influence witnesses.

 

[Lola]

Roux: to take #OscarPistorius's alleged passing of "accidental gunshot" buck as grounds to say he'd influence witnesses would be unfair.

Roux admits he didn't ask #OscarPistorious about his alleged accidental discharge of gun in restaurant - and asking friend to take fall.

 

[Lola]

oops. Roux looks like your icon bid may backfire

 

[otyikondo]

14:49 - Magistrate says one of the grounds against bail is the possibility the accused could influence witnesses.

You got a thank you for that last post, but this one is to say a sincere Thanks for providing such an excellent minute-by-minute account.

Hardly worth messing around with Twitter when it's all put on a plate like this!

 

[marlywings]

I agree otyikondo. Fantastic job Lola...thankyou