General Discussion Thread #1 -Bail Hearing

[21merc7]

What about the cricket bat? No forensics, mobile phone records or info on skull. This is the poorest bail application from the prosecution that one would ever think could happen. I think they could have the evidence but they have not presented it in a supportive way. They were very lazy IMO.

What about the new guy? Mark van Aarndt? or someone when is he going to take over? What's the betting OP will escape to a country without an extradition treaty now if he is released on bail which seems to be a foregone conclusion?

I don't see how forensics can be complete on anything, ie. cricket bat. It doesn't happen that quickly.

 

[Estelle]

What about this article?

"Oscar Pistorius:Fury At Former Nigerian Minister's Attack On Victim

Posted: 1 hr ago by Hafiz Salman

Fresh reports emanated on former Minister of Aviation, Femi Fani-Kayode sparking outrage on blaming South African model, Reeva Steenkamp for her own death. The erstwhile Aviation Minister labelled Reeva Steenkamp as 'jezebel' who provoked the global sporting star into a murderous rage.

He said that the Paralympian 'was provoked into a murderous rage by his pretty little lover and that she played on his insecurities and inadequacies.'

'In one moment of blind rage he has lost everything, and all because of a sexy and pretty little model who the devil sent his way,' he wrote. "

http://www.galaxytvonline.com/news/...at-former-nigerian-ministers-attack-on-victim

 

[Estelle]

http://ow.ly/i/1yGrU/original

AnnaMarie's application re OP's mental state to the court.

 

[Lola]

from the latest diagram i've seen and from what we heard yesterday, the cricket bat was near the sinks at the br consistent with bashing in the door. nothing was made of a bashed in skull, so i'm guessing that was not true and if there was skull damage at all it would be consistent with a bullet.

he may not have known it was Reeva in the toilet, (my DH keeps saying but she didn't live there - who often did she stay over?) but he definitely was out to get whoever it was. if phone records/tweets/ipad activity/ whatever support the argument theory then the "witnesses" will carry more weight, but right now???

what was the state of the bedroom? whose phones were in the toilet? and had they been used? did she really go to use her phone? who would leave at 3am after an argument? was she getting ready to bail? (no pun intended) lots of ??s but the prosecutors better pull their socks up if there is a case to be made, they have fallen well short!

 

[Carol70]

I would call a retrial of bail hearing due to Botha's ineptitude.

Defence will protest very loudly, wont happen. The state should have done their homework! Surely they should have known that Botha had NOT done one thing to substantiate their claim of premeditated murder and wouldnt have put him on the stand! It just tells me that the state hadnt even bothered to check the docket and instead just thought Botha would be on his game. There is absolutely no room for "thought" in this case! They should have had their lackeys on it 24/7!

 

[Lola]

#OscarPistorius Roux: the moving of the body downstairs shows positive steps to save her life - he was desperateto save her. BB
Roux: ... the IO conceded that if Oscar shouted there was na burglar in the house she would have locked herself in. BB
the state relies on the point that the door was broken down from the outside to show this was premed... BB
Roux: the state's claim that the applicant lived in a secure estate has no value - violent crime in esates is well known. BB
Roux continues his closing argument. BB

 

[otyikondo]

What about the cricket bat? No forensics, mobile phone records or info on skull. This is the poorest bail application from the prosecution that one would ever think could happen. I think they could have the evidence but they have not presented it in a supportive way. They were very lazy IMO.

What about the new guy? Mark van Aarndt? or someone when is he going to take over? What's the betting OP will escape to a country without an extradition treaty now if he is released on bail which seems to be a foregone conclusion?

A double problem is that - having missed the ball so badly at the "bail hearing that everyone and his mother thinks is really a trial", if the prosecution CAN come up with (and one has to assume they can, or otherwise this has all been a colossal waste of time) some serious and compelling forensic/phone/ballistics evidence of guilt and premeditation at some later date in the actual trial process, will it have been poisoned by these earlier flubs?

I'm horribly afraid that as it is at the moment we are going to see a medical miracle and that "Pistorius Walks!" headline.

Another side of the coin is media culpability in rushing to judgement - that whole "bloodied cricket bat" thing, for instance, has somehow fizzled out and gone away. If it were to return at some later date, most minds would ask why on earth it was not taken into consideration at the time.

Who sowed that original seed - and the very striking images of OP whacking her to a pulp - in the first place?

 

[LJKaust]

What about this article?

"Oscar Pistorius:Fury At Former Nigerian Minister's Attack On Victim

Posted: 1 hr ago by Hafiz Salman

Fresh reports emanated on former Minister of Aviation, Femi Fani-Kayode sparking outrage on blaming South African model, Reeva Steenkamp for her own death. The erstwhile Aviation Minister labelled Reeva Steenkamp as 'jezebel' who provoked the global sporting star into a murderous rage.

He said that the Paralympian 'was provoked into a murderous rage by his pretty little lover and that she played on his insecurities and inadequacies.'

'In one moment of blind rage he has lost everything, and all because of a sexy and pretty little model who the devil sent his way,' he wrote. "

http://www.galaxytvonline.com/news/...at-former-nigerian-ministers-attack-on-victim

:what:

What a complete pig! :furious:

 

[Lola]

Karyn Maughan ‏@karynmaughan

Roux: #OscarPistorius took positive steps to save Reeva's life, that's why he called Netcare and carried her down stairs. @eNCAnews

Roux: a CEO was shot in security complex in Waterval Estate, Pretoria - fact that #OscarPistorius lived in sec estate "doesn't tip scale"

 

[Lola]

Roux: there may have been an argument between Oscar and Reeva earlier in the evening, but witnesses can't confirm. BB

#OscarPistorius Roux: why would a burglar lock himself in the toilet? He didn't know the door was locked. BB

 

[Lola]

Karyn Maughan ‏@karynmaughan

Roux: state submits that #OscarPistorius aimed shots at the basin. But Botha conceded that shot angle consistent with #oscar version.

Roux: #OscarPistorius didn't know that door was locked when he shot (addressing state questions about why burglar would lock self in toilet)

 

[Lola]

13:49 - Roux: Botha had a statement from a person who was 600m away, then 300m away, "now I don't know how far". Witness didn't identify them.

13:49 - Mandy Wiener tweets: Roux pulls off his glasses, waving hands about, lambasting 'naked statements' saying 'desperate attempt by State'.

13:48: Argument between Oscar Pistorius and Reeva Steenkamp "speculative at best", Roux says.

13:47 - Roux: The evidence is not that the applicant knew the toilet was locked when he fired the shots. The door was only closed.

 

[otyikondo]

What about this article?

"Oscar Pistorius:Fury At Former Nigerian Minister's Attack On Victim

Posted: 1 hr ago by Hafiz Salman

Fresh reports emanated on former Minister of Aviation, Femi Fani-Kayode sparking outrage on blaming South African model, Reeva Steenkamp for her own death. The erstwhile Aviation Minister labelled Reeva Steenkamp as 'jezebel' who provoked the global sporting star into a murderous rage.

He said that the Paralympian 'was provoked into a murderous rage by his pretty little lover and that she played on his insecurities and inadequacies.'

'In one moment of blind rage he has lost everything, and all because of a sexy and pretty little model who the devil sent his way,' he wrote. "

http://www.galaxytvonline.com/news/...at-former-nigerian-ministers-attack-on-victim

Jeez. "Jezebel". You couldn't make stuff like this up. Poor old Oscar, eh?
It sort of throws a strong light on this rather different article in the Daily Telegraph today.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/oscar-pistorius/9344453/Oscar-Pistorius-case-The-Blonde-is-the-victim-here-Blade.html

 

[Lola]

Nair to Roux: lets save time...you do appreciate that Botha isn't a ballistic expert. Roux: but he tendered evidence @eNCAnews

 

[Carol70]

A double problem is that - having missed the ball so badly at the "bail hearing that everyone and his mother thinks is really a trial", if the prosecution CAN come up with (and one has to assume they can, or otherwise this has all been a colossal waste of time) some serious and compelling forensic/phone/ballistics evidence of guilt and premeditation at some later date in the actual trial process, will it have been poisoned by these earlier flubs?

I'm horribly afraid that as it is at the moment we are going to see a medical miracle and that "Pistorius Walks!" headline.

Another side of the coin is media culpability in rushing to judgement - that whole "bloodied cricket bat" thing, for instance, has somehow fizzled out and gone away. If it were to return at some later date, most minds would ask why on earth it was not taken into consideration at the time.

Who sowed that original seed - and the very striking images of OP whacking her to a pulp - in the first place?

I so so agree with you, been in plenty debates before the bail application that most details were comming from "sources" and someone who knows a friend, who knows a friend, who is second cousins with another person who is close to the case-details seen on twitter. It was ridiculous. No details were confirmed by police except that Oscar had shot and killed Reeva.

 

[Lola]

Karyn Maughan ‏@karynmaughan
State denies that Botha conceded that ballistic evidence supported #OscarPistorius shooting claims. @eNCAnews

Roux: the objective facts show that at the time of her demise, there was no urine in Reeva's bladder - backing up #oscar @eNCAnews

Rouxon Botha: don't come and tender positive evidence as a fact. Because it won't fly.

 

[Lola]

Karyn Maughan ‏@karynmaughan

Roux: probability is that #Reeva would have attempted to safeguard her position in the toilet after hearing #OscarPistorius "warning"

Nair questions why Reeva wouldn't have opened toilet do to "ask what's going". Roux: in face of danger that doesn't make sense @eNCAnews

 

[Lola]

13:57 - State denies that Botha conceded that ballistic evidence supported Oscar Pistorius shooting claims.

13:57 - Roux: The objective facts show that at the time of her demise, there was no urine in Reeva's bladder - backing up Oscar.

13:56 - Roux: Even if Reeva was dressed, doesn't mean she didn’t go to the toilet.

13:55 - Roux: Pistorius could not have known the angle of the person behind the door.

 

[21merc7]

I don't know how he could "get off" the crime. It is clear that he killed Reeva. Accidentally or intentionally will only render a less or more sentence. Well, in the U.S. it would. He would still have to serve some amount of time in jail. Regardless if he "thought" it was an intruder and was scared, he shot (and killed) someone 3 times that he could not see and know with certainty was trying to cause him harm.

 

[Lola]

interesting point on dressed?! these were NOT her nightclothes?