General Discussion Thread #1 -Bail Hearing

[Lola]

Nel: #OscarPistorius never woke Reeva up and asked her if she had heard an intruder. @eNCAnews

 

[Carol70]

Nel is not impressing me in the least! and far to many of his statements are starting with the word *why*, they have NOTHING on him..absolutely zilch Im afraid to say!

 

[Lola]

#OscarPistorius Nel on hi own version he was keen to arm himself - it's indicative of someone willing to kill. BB

#OscarPistorius Nel Even on his own version, there was no imminent danger in the bedroom. BB

#OscarPistorius he fetched his firearm from the side Reeva sleeps, he didn't rouse here, ask her she heard something? BB

 

[Lola]

15:43 - Nel: The issue with affidavits is it's untested. We argue the love being described by the witnesses wasn't from the night of the incident.

15:40 - Nel moves onto process and the issue that defence only gave a statement and did not take the stand himself.

 

[otyikondo]

This goes back to the argument about why did he wait until she locked herself behind a door to hurt her. Her actions are not indicative of someone who is being chased by a gun, running to the smallest room in the house with no place to hide, leaving your phone outside the room your running too.

Now, if you were to say they were having an argument and they were already in the bathroom (meaning he wasn't chasing her, but found her in the bathroom and the argument started), that's more believable.

Help me here, people. Am I right in understanding that no evidence relating to SMS messages or other phone traffic on RS's phone(s) has been brought up?

Was the rumour running around that the rugby player's message had kicked all this off (possibly being found by OP at the point when his girlfriend had gone for a pee - which would fit in with the scenario above) just a scurrilous rumour, and should we expect phone traffic to play a pivotal role in any subsequent trial? Of course, if it does, it could change the complexion of the case dramatically.

 

[Lola]

#OscarPistorius Nel this vulnerable person stormed the danger without his prosthesis. BB

 

[Lola]

otyikondo, apparently the prosecution doesn't have this info yet....or if you believe Roux it does not support their case.

 

[Lola]

Nel's choice of adjective to describe #OscarPistorius claims about the shooting: "improbable" @eNCAnews

Nel: law shows that #OscarPistorius must prove on balance of probability that he will be acquitted to get bail @eNCAnews

 

[gxm]

This goes back to the argument about why did he wait until she locked herself behind a door to hurt her. Her actions are not indicative of someone who is being chased by a gun, running to the smallest room in the house with no place to hide, leaving your phone outside the room your running too.

Now, if you were to say they were having an argument and they were already in the bathroom (meaning he wasn't chasing her, but found her in the bathroom and the argument started), that's more believable.

That's what makes the most sense to me. That they were arguing and she was in the bathroom, he was either in or near the bathroom. They argue. OP leaves the bathroom area to get his gun. RS stays in the bathroom assuming the argument is over or at a lull. OP comes back with the gun, RS sees the gun and runs and locks herself in the toilet. If there really was a bullet found in the bathroom entry, then IMO that supports this scenario.

 

[otyikondo]

otyikondo, apparently the prosecution doesn't have this info yet....or if you believe Roux it does not support their case.

Really isn't like the movies, is it? It's been a week!

Maybe Roux is onto something.

 

[cityslick]

15:43 - Nel: The issue with affidavits is it's untested. We argue the love being described by the witnesses wasn't from the night of the incident.

15:40 - Nel moves onto process and the issue that defence only gave a statement and did not take the stand himself.

I saw Dershowitz make the comment that the fact that he put his statement in an affidavit means his defense lawyers must feel very confident in either OP's version or lack of evidence to prove the states cases. Once it's in an affidavit, anything that's proven to be false and he's automatic toast.

 

[Lola]

#OscarPistorius Nel his version can only be that he wanted to kill the person in the cubicle, that's why he fired. BB

#OscarPistorius Nel even on his own version he fired to kill a burglar. BB

#OscarPistorius Nel doesn't add any weight to Pistorius's statement - it's untested, he didn't submit to cross-examination. BB

 

[Lola]

#OscarPistorius Nel on his own version it's dolus eventualis. We say dolus directus - it was planned. BB

#OscarPistorius Nel he fired four shots, not one. You only fire four if you want to kill. BB

 

[Lola]

#OscarPistorius Nel on his own version it's dolus eventualis. We say dolus directus - it was planned. BB

#OscarPistorius Nel he fired four shots, not one. You only fire four if you want to kill. BB

15:50 - Nel: Why did he shoot? Did he want to kill the intruder, not Reeva? Let's give him the benefit of the doubt.

15:50 - Nel: Botha said nothing inconsistent with State's case, as well as the defence's. And burden of proof is on Pistorius.

15:49 - Nel cites precedent that the accused "must prove on the balance of probability that he will be acquitted".

15:47 - Nel: This man created his feeling of vulnerability but stormed the [toilet] door - on his own version.

15:45 - Nel on Oscar Pistorius version: Actions indicative of a man willing and ready to fire, to kill… He stormed the danger.

15:45 - Nel: Pistorius never woke Reeva up and asked her if she had heard an intruder.

15:44 - Nel: his version is so improbable that it can never be a reasonable possibility.

Nel: You want to protect her but don't look at her

 

[Lola]

#OscarPistorius Nel the threats to Mark Bachelor and at Kyalami went unchallenged - because it's true. BB

#OscarPistorius Nel there's one person who knows every detail of what happened that night - he has the onus. BB

#OscarPistorius Nel the witness statements we have is taken under oath. BB

 

[Lola]

#OscarPistorius Nel: Roux argued its young-people speak, but here we have threats and a dead woman. BB

 

[Lola]

#OscarPistorius Nel he elected to give a statement, but we can't test it, ask him questions. BB

#OscarPistorius Nel he is prone to violence. BB

 

[Lola]

Karyn Maughan ‏@karynmaughan
#OscarPistorius bail application postponed until ten tomorrow morning. @eNCAnews

 

[Lola]

#OscarPistorius and that's it for the day. We are back at 10am tomorrow. BB

#OscarPistorius Nel: Roix says why would international athlete flee - I ask why would int athlete handle a firearm in public. BB

 

[cityslick]

I think the state is wising up to the fact that with the evidence they have they shouldn't be going down the road that he was intentionally trying to kill Reeva, just that he was intentionally trying to kill anyone behind that door regardless.

It's hard to argue with that if you take that angle vs. trying to argue the specific 'he was targeting Reeva' angle.