General Discussion Thread #1 -Bail Hearing
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Lola
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14:29 - Phillip de Wet tweets: Forest of microphones on magistrate podium is still growing. Now they can finally broadcast, electronic media has pounced.
14:28 - Barry Roux looking remarkably relaxed. Microphones being fiddled with in front of Nair's seat, says Mandy Wiener.
14:28 - Barry Roux looking remarkably relaxed. Microphones being fiddled with in front of Nair's seat, says Mandy Wiener.
Lola
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Karyn Maughan ‏@karynmaughan
Magistrate kicks out photographers without allowing them to get one image of pre-ruling #OscarPistorius @eNCAnews
Ranjeni Munusamy ‏@RanjeniM
Just 6 months ago, South Africa was also anxious, waiting for #OscarPistorius to run for his country & bring home a gold medal. And now..
Magistrate kicks out photographers without allowing them to get one image of pre-ruling #OscarPistorius @eNCAnews
Ranjeni Munusamy ‏@RanjeniM
Just 6 months ago, South Africa was also anxious, waiting for #OscarPistorius to run for his country & bring home a gold medal. And now..
I'll be surprised if he doesn't get bail, for the simple reason that the prosecution really hasn't proved that he's a flight risk or even a danger to society. Nothing they've said in court has actually disproven his story. They've brought up scenarios and what they think happened but nothing yet actually proves that it's false.
Zimmerman was still granted bail after shooting Trayvon Martin due to the murky circumstances of what can and cannot be proven at the time of the bail hearing, I don't see this any different.
Zimmerman was still granted bail after shooting Trayvon Martin due to the murky circumstances of what can and cannot be proven at the time of the bail hearing, I don't see this any different.
Lola
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Barry Bateman ‏@barrybateman
#OscarPistorius Nair: refers to the order at the outset - the media application. BB
#OscarPistorius Nair: goes over the sequence of the ruling - deal with media ruling, evidence, legal position, analisys, factors... BB
#OscarPistorius Nair enters. Let's get going... BB
#OscarPistorius Nair: refers to the order at the outset - the media application. BB
#OscarPistorius Nair: goes over the sequence of the ruling - deal with media ruling, evidence, legal position, analisys, factors... BB
#OscarPistorius Nair enters. Let's get going... BB
Lola
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Barry Bateman ‏@barrybateman
#OscarPistorius Nair: has read the legislation dealing with media requests. BB
news 24 has switched over to live streaming of audio live stream
#OscarPistorius Nair: has read the legislation dealing with media requests. BB
news 24 has switched over to live streaming of audio live stream
Carol70
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Just some funnies I saw from Barry bateman:
#OscarPistorius over heard in court, American journo: "you thought superbowl seats were hard to find, try this courtroom..." BB
#OscarPistorius overheard in court, Brit journo referring to Kenny Kunene: "have we got a photo of Mr Sushi?" BB
#OscarPistorius over heard in court, American journo: "you thought superbowl seats were hard to find, try this courtroom..." BB
#OscarPistorius overheard in court, Brit journo referring to Kenny Kunene: "have we got a photo of Mr Sushi?" BB
Estelle
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12.33 Before we get underway, here's a summing up from Aislinn Laing in court
I think Pistorius will get bail - and that's the generally-held view of people watching this hearing. Desmond Nair, Pretoria's Chief Magistrate, has tried to play Devil's Advocate on both sides of the argument but on balance, I think he'll come down in favour of Mr Pistorius. His question yesterday to Barry Roux, Mr Pistorius' lawyer, was most telling. While discussing the public mood about the case, he asked Mr Roux anxiously: "Do you think there will be shock if the accused is released on bail?" Mr Roux responded: "I think there will be shock if he is not."
Mr Nair faces what he himself described as an "unenviable" decision. If he grants bail, he will come under fire from womens' groups - two members of the ANC's Womens' League have been in court throughout the hearing and are likely to summon their members to make merry hell if Mr Pistorius walks free. Following the particularly brutal rape and murder of a Cape teenager earlier this month, there have been calls - acknowledged by President Jacob Zuma in his recent State of the Nation address - for tougher action against those who abuse women and children.
If he denies the athlete bail, he will be pilloried by his many fans the world-over, and potentially take flak from his increasingly well-oiled PR machine, run by former Sun editor Stuart Higgins. There have also been suggestions that he can appeal the decision at the High Court.
To recap - the prosecution say Mr Pistorius should remain in custody because, through previous incidents such as his accidentally firing a gun in a Johannesburg restaurant then persuading a friend to take the rap, he said he has shown he does not take responsibility for his actions, and would thus pose a flight risk. He pointed to high-profile cases such as Wikileaks founder Julian Assange, who absconded while on bail and sought refuge in the Ecuadorian embassy in London, to prove that even world-famous people can be fugitives of justice.
Mr Pistorius' lawyer has responded that the defendant loves his country, and wants to clear his name in court. He said that practically, life on the run would be too difficult for him, since he needs regular access to medical care for his stumps and prosthetic legs.
He added: "If he goes through airport security there's always a commotion and the system reacts. That shows you how difficult it is."
Karyn Maughan, legal journalist for the rolling South African television station E News Channel Africa, said Mr Nair would probably set the bar high with bail conditions, asking for a surety of between R100,000 to R200,000 and regular visits to police.
"To avoid any accusations of leniency, he will really make his life hell," she said. "It will basically be like house arrest."
She said that the entire bail application process, and Mr Pistorius' decision to present his version of events in an affidavit, was a risky strategy. It means the prosecution can now work to disprove every aspect of his defence in forensic detail.
Equally, the debacle with Warrant Officer Botha, who saw old charges he was facing re-enacted the day after he gave a distastrous account of the police evidence on the witness stand, has prompted the country's police chiefs to dedicate some of their most senior officers, working with more resources, on the case.
"He may have won some public sympathy but it could considerably harm his chances at trial," she said.
As for what Mr Pistorius will do if he is released, we've heard he will likely head to a house belonging to one of his uncles.
I've been told that there will be "absolutely no interviews" with the athlete himself, but his family may conduct one or two at a later stage.
12.31 Reeva Steenkamp's relatives say they will not be making any comment after the decision, and that they are simply in court "to represent Reeva".
12.33 Before we get underway, here's a summing up from Aislinn Laing in court
I think Pistorius will get bail - and that's the generally-held view of people watching this hearing. Desmond Nair, Pretoria's Chief Magistrate, has tried to play Devil's Advocate on both sides of the argument but on balance, I think he'll come down in favour of Mr Pistorius. His question yesterday to Barry Roux, Mr Pistorius' lawyer, was most telling. While discussing the public mood about the case, he asked Mr Roux anxiously: "Do you think there will be shock if the accused is released on bail?" Mr Roux responded: "I think there will be shock if he is not."
Mr Nair faces what he himself described as an "unenviable" decision. If he grants bail, he will come under fire from womens' groups - two members of the ANC's Womens' League have been in court throughout the hearing and are likely to summon their members to make merry hell if Mr Pistorius walks free. Following the particularly brutal rape and murder of a Cape teenager earlier this month, there have been calls - acknowledged by President Jacob Zuma in his recent State of the Nation address - for tougher action against those who abuse women and children.
If he denies the athlete bail, he will be pilloried by his many fans the world-over, and potentially take flak from his increasingly well-oiled PR machine, run by former Sun editor Stuart Higgins. There have also been suggestions that he can appeal the decision at the High Court.
To recap - the prosecution say Mr Pistorius should remain in custody because, through previous incidents such as his accidentally firing a gun in a Johannesburg restaurant then persuading a friend to take the rap, he said he has shown he does not take responsibility for his actions, and would thus pose a flight risk. He pointed to high-profile cases such as Wikileaks founder Julian Assange, who absconded while on bail and sought refuge in the Ecuadorian embassy in London, to prove that even world-famous people can be fugitives of justice.
Mr Pistorius' lawyer has responded that the defendant loves his country, and wants to clear his name in court. He said that practically, life on the run would be too difficult for him, since he needs regular access to medical care for his stumps and prosthetic legs.
He added: "If he goes through airport security there's always a commotion and the system reacts. That shows you how difficult it is."
Karyn Maughan, legal journalist for the rolling South African television station E News Channel Africa, said Mr Nair would probably set the bar high with bail conditions, asking for a surety of between R100,000 to R200,000 and regular visits to police.
"To avoid any accusations of leniency, he will really make his life hell," she said. "It will basically be like house arrest."
She said that the entire bail application process, and Mr Pistorius' decision to present his version of events in an affidavit, was a risky strategy. It means the prosecution can now work to disprove every aspect of his defence in forensic detail.
Equally, the debacle with Warrant Officer Botha, who saw old charges he was facing re-enacted the day after he gave a distastrous account of the police evidence on the witness stand, has prompted the country's police chiefs to dedicate some of their most senior officers, working with more resources, on the case.
"He may have won some public sympathy but it could considerably harm his chances at trial," she said.
As for what Mr Pistorius will do if he is released, we've heard he will likely head to a house belonging to one of his uncles.
I've been told that there will be "absolutely no interviews" with the athlete himself, but his family may conduct one or two at a later stage.
12.31 Reeva Steenkamp's relatives say they will not be making any comment after the decision, and that they are simply in court "to represent Reeva".
Lola
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Barry Bateman ‏@barrybateman
#OscarPistorius Nair: describing photographers swamping accused - like the accused is a species the world never seen before. BB
#OscarPistorius Nair: took inter cosnideration the rights of the accused, the size of the venue. BB
#OscarPistorius Nair: describing photographers swamping accused - like the accused is a species the world never seen before. BB
#OscarPistorius Nair: took inter cosnideration the rights of the accused, the size of the venue. BB
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