General Discussion Thread #4

[kittychi]

Pistorius family spokesperson Anneliese Burgess told the Sunday Times that it was the first time the paralympian went out with friends but left the Kitchen Bar when "public interest became overwhelming".

Does that mean people began shouting and hurling objects? :lol:

 

[Pisto_lius]

OP's father was never at the crime scene.
Other things there may not match the timeline either.

BIB – it sounds like this is a fact? Than, congratulation, because it seems, you’re the only one here who knows details

All I “know” is, that several media reported:

Pistorius’ father received a call from his son just after 3.20am on Thursday, asking him to come to his house. When his family arrived, Oscar was carrying Steenkamp’s body down the stairs from his bedroom to the entrance hall. Her head and arms were “dangling”.
http://www.citypress.co.za/news/exclusive-full-the-case-against-oscar/

According to City Press, Pistorius also called his father and sister and asked them to go to the house at about 3.20am on Thursday.

When they arrived, it said, he was carrying his girlfriend’s body down the stairs — her head and arms were “dangling”, it added.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...at-central-piece-of-evidence-against-him.html

At around 3.20am, four shots rang out – apparently not all at once. The first person Pistorius called was his father Henke, 59.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...in-Divaris-shooting-dead-Reeva-Steenkamp.html

And on the other hand is what was reported of Botha’s testifying:

Botha testified that shortly after he arrived at the crime scene, Pistorius' brother Carl and a lawyer arrived at the house with a locksmith.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/oscar-pistorius-arrives-2nd-day-bail-hearing-article-1.1268575

10:22 - Botha: "[Pistorius]'s lawyer came to the house with a locksmith to open a safe in the kitchen.
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/LIVE-UPDATES-Pistorius-in-court-day-2-20130220

Pistorius’s brother and lawyer came to the house after Botha had arrived at 4.15 a.m. to get documents and a flash drive containing information of off-shore bank accounts, the policeman said.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...release-from-custody-before-murder-trial.html

How you can see: some people reported brother Carl AND a lawyer came to the house shortly after Botha arrived the crime scene – others reported ONLY the lawyer came to the house.

And that means to me, it’s entirely possible that other people were at the house before Botha arrived and their actions were so irrelevant when Botha arrived, that he didn’t mention them during the bail hearing.

 

[Patticake]

Pistorius family spokesperson Anneliese Burgess told the Sunday Times that it was the first time the paralympian went out with friends but left the Kitchen Bar when "public interest became overwhelming".

Does that mean people began shouting and hurling objects? :lol:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ously-denies-downing-drinks-and-flirting.html

Arnold Pistorius said it had been the first time Oscar had been out with friends since the murder, but given the reaction, they had advised him not to do so again.

"These reports are a rude reminder that Oscar’s every move is under intense scrutiny by the media and, as a family, we have advised him to find other ways of coping with his sense of isolation," he said.

.

 

[kittychi]

LaurieAClaase provided a link regarding the CTM lawsuit:

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2013/03/03/pistorius-drops-r2.2-million-claim-report

The title of the article is "Pistorius drops R2.2 million claim: report." But here is part of the article: "Pistorius decided to withdraw the reputational damages claim against his former neighbour Cassidy Taylor-Memmory on Thursday and communicated his decision on Friday, the Sunday Independent reported.

On Friday, Pistorius lawyer Gary Pritchard told the French news agency Agence France Presse that the parties were holding "confidential" talks to resolve the lawsuit."


Here in the US, if you drop a lawsuit, it is done. Resolved. Goes away. This article seems to clash with the headline in that they are working to "resolve" the lawsuit in "'confidential' talks."

Confusing!

 

[kittychi]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ously-denies-downing-drinks-and-flirting.html

A family friend told the Sunday Times recently that the world-famous athlete was "cooped up at the home of his uncle, Arnold, watching a bit of television and reading the Bible".


:silly: :floorlaugh: :rolling: :violin:

 

[shane13]

Pistorius family spokesperson Anneliese Burgess told the Sunday Times that it was the first time the paralympian went out with friends but left the Kitchen Bar when "public interest became overwhelming".

Does that mean people began shouting and hurling objects? :lol:

Kittychi: This brings up who OP had the drinks with.
It was pointed out that that person has an unsavory past and is linked to org. crime or such.

But he came with 4 bodyguards. And perhaps OP needs that now--and for the rest of his life?

Many of us fear that Reeva may not get justice. But for the rest of his life OP may need bodyguards, so in some way his life will be altered and made more problematic even if he gets off either scot-free or with a small sentence.

 

[shane13]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ously-denies-downing-drinks-and-flirting.html

A family friend told the Sunday Times recently that the world-famous athlete was "cooped up at the home of his uncle, Arnold, watching a bit of television and reading the Bible".


:silly: :floorlaugh: :rolling: :violin:

Is he reading the part about "Thou shalt not kill"?
Or what about bearing false witness?

 

[natsound]

BIB – it sounds like this is a fact? Than, congratulation, because it seems, you’re the only one here who knows details

All I “know” is, that several media reported:





Gu

And on the other hand is what was reported of Botha’s testifying:







How you can see: some people reported brother Carl AND a lawyer came to the house shortly after Botha arrived the crime scene – others reported ONLY the lawyer came to the house.

And that means to me, it’s entirely possible that other people were at the house before Botha arrived and their actions were so irrelevant when Botha arrived, that he didn’t mention them during the bail hearing.

Thank you for posting these passages, P. There have been so many contradictions about what transpired that night. Nothing has been settled. Well, very little, anyway.

 

[soozieqtips]

As sorrell said, quote box was not working . I tried

Yes, but you can preview before you post and correct it before submitting, or edit it later.

This one of yours also doesn't have the quote tags closed so I don't know whose comments are whose.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Oscar Pistorius charged with murdering his girlfriend #4


As we were all asked recently to make sure we've closed quote tags before submitting, I don't think it out of place to post a reminder since some posts are really confusing when the wrong person's name is attached to them.

 

[sorrell skye]

Not A drink, or a couple of drinks, but a few! He has perhaps hidden his drinking habit.

But, if this had happened to me, you would not see me in public for a year or more! How can his PR team have approved this?

Yet comically it is stated that not a moment goes by when he is not mourning Reeva. Does he not know that when he is seen out in public, smiling ... with drink in hand, it puts that in question?
.

BBM

I agree, Patti!

I guess it's apparent why his family spokesperson released that media statement on April 11 that many of us have read.

"Over the past few weeks, Oscar has found comfort in spending time and sharing memories with many of those whom she loved, in surroundings where shared memories were created," the family said in a statement Thursday.

It did not identify the people with whom 26-year-old Pistorius had met, nor the locations.

Anneliese Burgess, a spokeswoman for the Pistorius family, said the athlete had been "very isolated" but had begun a process of "interacting with people."

http://espn.go.com/olympics/trackan...rius-family-says-runner-visiting-friends-bail

I think they were aware this current story was about to break, and they wanted to get ahead of it to try to paint OP in a sympathetic light by saying he was coming out of isolation & beginning the process of "interacting with people" & spending time with people Reeva loved.

It's transparent, to me, that they released their April 11 statement as preemptive damage control.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

I found this interesting ..FYI

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/rigor-mortis-and-lividity.html

Rigor Mortis and Lividity are two natural occurrences within the human body after death that can be used as a means of determining - or at least estimating - when the deceased died.

Lividity is the process through which the body's blood supply will stop moving after the heart has stopped pumping it around the inside of the deceased. What normally happens at this point is that the blood supply - or at least any blood that remains within the corpse depending on the nature of their death - will settle in direct response to gravity. For example an individual found lying on their stomach would be found with all the blood from their back heading towards the ground. Lividity also displays itself as a dark purple discolouration of the body and can also be referred to as Livor Mortis or Post Mortem Hypostasis.

Any part of the body which has come into contact with a firm surface for a period of time - such as a floor or bench top - will show signs of this during lividity as this impression against the skin displays itself as an indentation surrounded by gravity-pulled blood.

It is worth noting that lividity begins to work through the deceased within thirty minutes of their heart stopping and can last up to twelve hours. Only up to the first six hours of death can lividity be altered by moving the body. After the six hour mark lividity is fixed as blood vessels begin to break down within the body.

 

[soozieqtips]

Not A drink, or a couple of drinks, but a few! He has perhaps hidden his drinking habit.

But, if this had happened to me, you would not see me in public for a year or more! How can his PR team have approved this?

Yet comically it is stated that not a moment goes by when he is not mourning Reeva. Does he not know that when he is seen out in public, smiling ... with drink in hand, it puts that in question?
.

Haha. Funny how someone who 'doesn't drink alcohol' fought to have the ban on it lifted from his bail condtions so that he could continue his, um, non-drinking lifestyle in peace!! Why did his family insist he didn't drink when he so obviously does? Who are they trying to kid?

 

[kittychi]

BBM

Anneliese Burgess, a spokeswoman for the Pistorius family, said the athlete had been "very isolated" but had begun a process of "interacting with people."[/I]

http://espn.go.com/olympics/trackan...rius-family-says-runner-visiting-friends-bail

I think they were aware this current story was about to break, and they wanted to get ahead of it to try to paint OP in a sympathetic light by saying he was coming out of isolation & beginning the process of "interacting with people" & spending time with people Reeva loved.

It's transparent, to me, that they released their April 11 statement as preemptive damage control.

I totally agree with you, sorrell skye. Every time we see the name Anneliese Burgess, I feel we're given a translation of the truth through a PR filter. They must think the public is really gullible; unfortunately I'm afraid they're correct.

IMO you are right on target about the timing.

 

[natsound]

Haha. Funny how someone who 'doesn't drink alcohol' fought to have the ban on it lifted from his bail condtions so that he could continue his, um, non-drinking lifestyle in peace!! Why did his family insist he didn't drink when he so obviously does? Who are they trying to kid?

They knew who they were trying to kid when they asked for softened bail restrictions.... and it worked!:banghead:

 

[kittychi]

from Annelise Burgess' web site:

http://www.annelieseburgess.com

Media Management | Liaison
The media environment can be a confusing and intimidating place. Not knowing how to negotiate the cut and thrust of information flow across multiple platforms and an ever-shrinking news cycle, can pose a serious risk for your brand. I handle the media interface on behalf of clients to ensure they get their information out whilst giving journalists what they need to tell their stories and meet their deadlines.

Crisis Communication
When emotions run high and risks stack up, clear and forthright communication is a critical tool to avert reputational damage. A clear vision is needed to effectively reach the public and interact with the media. With my intimate understanding of, and experience in, the media I assist clients to manage information in times of crisis.



Betcha she is always trying to get Uncle Arnold to keep his mouth shut! :silenced:

 

[kittychi]

Does anyone know the answers to these questions:

If OP is indicted in June, will he still be out on bail UNTIL the trial?

Will he still be out on bail DURING the trial?

Carol70, I thought you may know the answer?

:gthanks:

 

[Patticake]

Does anyone know the answers to these questions:

If OP is indicted in June, will he still be out on bail UNTIL the trial?

Will he still be out on bail DURING the trial?

Carol70, I thought you may know the answer?

:gthanks:

i'll take a shot at this although I'm clueless about SA law.

Here's Wikipedia on indictment:

Indictment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think OP has already been indicted. So I would say "no", he has already been charged with murder and is out on bail until his trial and during his trial.

Okay, how far off am I?

 

[Mango33]

i'll take a shot at this although I'm clueless about SA law.

Here's Wikipedia on indictment:

Indictment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think OP has already been indicted. So I would say "no", he has already been charged with murder and is out on bail until his trial and during his trial.

Okay, how far off am I?

My understanding has been that he has not been indicted, based on what Nel said at the bail conditions hearing:

"Nel said indictments would be filed in June and the State hoped to go to trial before the end of the year."

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/20...en-bail-terms-challenged-by-pistorius-defence

But yes, Patticake, you are right, bail is in effect until there is a verdict in the case. Here is a link to the South Africa Criminal Procedure Act defining bail:

http://www.acts.co.za/criminal-procedure-act-1977/
See Chapter 9,section 58

As long as OP does not break his bail conditions and no new info comes to light that impacts the courts' impression of his flight risk (like evidence that he lied about something related to bail application etc) the bail conditions should hold till this is all over.

 

[sorrell skye]

Pistorius family spokesperson Anneliese Burgess told the Sunday Times that it was the first time the paralympian went out with friends but left the Kitchen Bar when "public interest became overwhelming".

Does that mean people began shouting and hurling objects? :lol:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ously-denies-downing-drinks-and-flirting.html

Arnold Pistorius said it had been the first time Oscar had been out with friends since the murder, but given the reaction, they had advised him not to do so again.
"These reports are a rude reminder that Oscar’s every move is under intense scrutiny by the media and, as a family, we have advised him to find other ways of coping with his sense of isolation," he said.

BBM

I would venture to say that the public response to OP out drinking & flirting in bars was anything but positive, based on the snippet from the above article.

If it's true that he 'patted a woman's backside', well, there are no words (at least no polite words), and he certainly shouldn't be offended that his latest actions have brought him negative publicity.

IMO, SA's golden boy has grown so accustomed to being hailed a hero these past ten years that I think he truly believes he can literally get away with murder.

"Rude reminder" indeed. It's tragic that he didn't heed the series of wake-up calls before he killed Reeva. It seems to me that he's been getting away with all sorts of extremely bad behavior for many years. I think that's one of the problems with putting athletes on a pedestal & worshipping them as demi-gods: they are not gods, despite their amazing athletic success.

IMO, this latest report reveals that OP is not a humble person and does not feel remorse for his heinous actions.

I won't say that I'm surprised.

 

[kittychi]

IMO, this latest report reveals that OP is not a humble person and does not feel remorse for his heinous actions.
<snipped>

BBM
Indeed, if everything in his affidavit were 100% truth, it seems he would stay out of the public eye out of respect for Reeva's family and for the fact that he is under arrest for premeditated murder.

However, he's already been indignant about the arrest: "I fail to understand how I could be charged with murder, let alone premeditated murder, as I had no intention to kill my girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp ("Reeva")"