General Discussion Thread #4

[Flinders]

Vanity Fair

CRIME
June 2013

The Shooting Star and The Model

http://m.vanityfair.com/culture/2013/06/oscar-pistorius-murder

 

[Estelle]

The NPA said the hearing would be presided over by Acting Chief Magistrate Daniel Thulare, who is not the same magistrate from the bail application.

Why the change of Magistrate?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/05/25/pistorius-investigation-august.html

It appears that he is a lenient magistrate if this is anything to go by.

Acting Chief Magistrate Daniel Thulare

http://answerit.news24.com/Question...el Thulare o driving without a licence?/63818

He is mentioned here also:

http://www.joasa.org.za/aricles/JOASA MAY Newsletter.pdf

Thulare has a background in Family Law Courts in Johannesburg - not criminal law! I am trying to find other cases he has been involved in.

Is it true that there will be three judges presiding over this case at trial?
I wonder who the other will be?






http://www.dawsoncornwell.com/press/ibadailynews.pdf

 

[Estelle]

Strange Tweets Express “Sympathy” For Reeva Steenkamp Days Before Her Death

Here are just two of the tweets:

"You think he's yours? Oh dear, dear, dear Reeves" 7 Feb

"Learn to appreciate what you have before time make you appreciate what you had" 7 Feb

One week before she died, Reeva Steenkamp suffered at the hands of an anonymous Twitter troll.

"While unpleasant, online trolling is by no means an unheard of phenomenon. But the tweets from the anonymous “Janne LA” in reply to Oscar Pistorius, Reeva Steenkamp and some of her friends indicate that the troll moved in the same circles as Pistorius and Steenkamp. Is this a jealous stalker with mental instability? Is there something deeper here? Does anyone know anything?"

http://www.2oceansvibe.com/2013/02/...hy-for-reeva-steenkamp-days-before-her-death/

Who is Tara Osborne?

I wonder if RS met up with Warren Lahoud the day before and confided in him about what was happening and he has not been able to disclose this until the trial. Are these tweets the reason for Reeva's so-called "premonition" through her art which the parents stated in a previous article above?

 

[Estelle]

This is a very interesting article:

Oscar Pistorius: the end of the rainbow

Oscar Pistorius was more than a national hero. His success came to symbolise South Africa's triumph over apartheid. Then he shot his girlfriend and left the nation's self-image in tatters

'South Africa has not learned to feel ambivalent about itself. That is why it invented Oscar the great one day and Oscar the terrible the next.'

A couple of years ago, two journalist friends of mine spent an afternoon with Oscar Pistorius. For much of the time, they recall, Oscar was quiet and self-contained. And then, apropos of nothing, he told a story. He was driving on the outskirts of a black township, he said, when a dog ran under his wheels. In his rear-view mirror, he watched as it dragged itself off the road by its front legs, its hind legs useless to it now. Its back was clearly broken. He stopped and got out of his car to find that the dog's owner had come out on to the street, shouting, cursing, gesticulating. What to do? Oscar grabbed his gun, shot the dog through the back of the head and drove off.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/24/oscar-pistorius-end-of-rainbow

 

[shane13]

Will Oscar's DT love this eerily similar crime story?

At 4 AM, a man living in a security estate in Pretoria hears a noise and goes to investigate. He is attacked. He shoots four times., wounding one of the assailants in the head...

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Pretoria-man-shoots-robber-in-home-20130503

 

[Estelle]

There's a lot more going on here, e.g. "Simasiku said the state did not have an expert witness to counter a planned defence argument that Barnard actually died from lack of care in the hospital and not as a result of injuries sustained in the accident."

To me seems strange, without even hearing this planned argument they basically drop the matter???
They could not get an expert witness???

http://www.accidentin.com/worldnews...her_of__39_bladerunner_39_oscar_pistorius.htm

If my memory serves me correctly when it went to court a few months ago the new prosecutor wanted to organise an expert witness but was refused permission as if it was too late to do that now. Also the family of the victim seemed to have accepted that Carl was not to blame for some reason. Were they paid off by Carl to say that?

 

[natsound]

To me, it is a bit troubling that the acting Chief Magistrate, Daniel Thulare, who will hear this case--at least on June 4--and maybe the actual trial, calls himself "Evangelist Daniel Thulare." That's the way he declared his authorship of his religious book.

Will he be able to have a separation of church and state during the trial?

Amazon.com: Y 2 4 Jesus: Zion, Where Indigenous Knowledge Meets Christianity (9781449076009): Daniel Thulare: Books

A magistrate can't love God? Can't write a book?

What if he wrote a book about tennis? Basket weaving? Dream interpretation?

I see no problem with it at all.

 

[natsound]

This is a very interesting article:

Oscar Pistorius: the end of the rainbow

Oscar Pistorius was more than a national hero. His success came to symbolise South Africa's triumph over apartheid. Then he shot his girlfriend and left the nation's self-image in tatters

'South Africa has not learned to feel ambivalent about itself. That is why it invented Oscar the great one day and Oscar the terrible the next.'

A couple of years ago, two journalist friends of mine spent an afternoon with Oscar Pistorius. For much of the time, they recall, Oscar was quiet and self-contained. And then, apropos of nothing, he told a story. He was driving on the outskirts of a black township, he said, when a dog ran under his wheels. In his rear-view mirror, he watched as it dragged itself off the road by its front legs, its hind legs useless to it now. Its back was clearly broken. He stopped and got out of his car to find that the dog's owner had come out on to the street, shouting, cursing, gesticulating. What to do? Oscar grabbed his gun, shot the dog through the back of the head and drove off.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/24/oscar-pistorius-end-of-rainbow

Yikes. That's pretty hard-core.

 

[Estelle]

Pistorius: Pics of bloody murder scene emerge

Pictures obtained by Sky News show the room where Reeva Steenkamp was shot, including the panel missing from the bathroom door and police markers pointing out the bullet holes. (Sky News)

Sky News on Friday broadcast the images showing the toilet that Steenkamp was apparently sitting on when Pistorius shot her, and the trail of blood from when he carried her downstairs to the front entrance of the house.

This is the first time the public has seen these images. There is a panel missing from the toilet door - from when he broke it down to get to her - and two police markers indicating bullet holes. Significantly, these bullet holes are below the door handle, correlating with Pistorius's claim that he was not wearing his prosthetic legs at the time of the shooting.

Trail of blood

Pistorius claimed during his bail hearing in February that he got up during the night to bring a fan in, but heard a noise in the bathroom and believed it was an intruder. He grabbed his gun and fired four shots at the bathroom door before he realised he had shot Steenkamp.

He then broke down the toilet door with a cricket bat to get to her and carried her downstairs. The photographs show blood on the stairs and landing, as well as flecks of blood on a sofa below.

The photographs also show a gift that Steenkamp planned to give Pistorius for Valentine's Day, along with a card bearing the name Ozzy - her nickname for him.

Other photographs show footprints in the blood. It emerged during the bail hearing that the investigating officer, Warrant Officer Hilton Botha, admitted walking around without protective foot covers, potentially contaminating the crime scene. Sky News did not reveal how it obtained the photographs.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Pistorius-Pics-of-bloody-murder-scene-emerge-20130531

 

[Carol70]

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Pistorius-Pics-of-bloody-murder-scene-emerge-20130531

FINALLY!!!

Im pretty excited to see these! Very interesting. Will be back to add my opinion this evening!

 

[Estelle]

NPA looking weak ahead of Pistorius trial

But, for many legal scholars in South Africa, the real spotlight will be on state lawyers from the National Prosecuting Authority (NPA).

While the NPA claims a conviction rate of 88%, setbacks in a recent string of high-profile cases are damaging the organisation's public image.

Prosecutors failed to convict police officers accused of killing activist Andries Tatane during a protest in 2011; one of the men accused of gang-raping and killing 17-year-old Anene Booysen was released for lack of evidence; and J Arthur Brown, who allegedly swindled thousands of widows and orphans out of their savings, was able to walk away with a fine and a suspended sentence.

‘Something is sorely wrong’

Judges in South Africa have not spared criticism. In case after case, they have lashed out at police and prosecutors.

"Something is sorely wrong and I can only think the prosecution's case has been poorly handled," Judge Anton Veldhuizen said during Brown's criminal trial.

Outside the courtroom, critics are less diplomatic and express a deeper level of concern for the state of the prosecution, amid what they say is a lack of leadership, budget cutbacks, alleged political interference, and outright incompetence.

The problems with the NPA have been ongoing for years, and include alleged improprieties regarding graft cases against Jacob Zuma, now president, in the period right before he took office.

More recently, top prosecutor Glynnis Breytenbach says she lost her job because she pursued an investigation into Richard Mdluli, an allegedly corrupt former head of police intelligence.

The picture arising from all this "suggests a toxic mixture of undue political influence and the incompetence of prosecutors", says Sipho Pityana, head of the Council for the Advancement of the South African Constitution, a think-tank.

NPA boss

William Booth, a criminal lawyer based in Cape Town, says the NPA is in dire need of a boss who can take charge and set the organisation on a better course.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/NPA-looking-weak-ahead-of-Pistorius-trial-20130530

 

[Estelle]

http://news.sky.com/story/1097557/pistorius-images-show-bloody-scene-of-killing

Pistorius: Images Show Bloody Scene Of Killing

Images obtained by Sky News show the room where Reeva Steenkamp was fatally shot. WARNING: These pictures may cause distress.

Sky News has obtained pictures inside the house of paralympian Oscar Pistorius - including images of the bloody bathroom where he shot his lover, Reeva Steenkamp.

The pictures have emerged as allegations that police officers involved in the investigation are being questioned following the disappearance of one of the runner's watches from his house.

This is the first time the public has seen the actual room where the athlete's model girlfriend was killed.

The images show a panel missing from the toilet door - and two police markers below the handle which indicate bullet holes - low down.

It is likely the defence will argue this backs up the runner's claims that he was on his stumps and shooting - from low down - at what he thought was an intruder.

There is also an image of the gift that the model had wrapped up ready to give the athlete. Stuck on the top of it, is a card with just one word - Ozzy - her nickname for him. There is a container of heart-shaped sweets too.

Other photographs show footprints in blood. The investigating policeman, Warrant Officer Hilton Botha, has already admitted he walked through the scene without wearing protective foot covers, potentially contaminating the evidence.

Now, there are further allegations about the police conduct at the house. Two different sources have told Sky News that other officers are being investigated too after the disappearance of one of the athlete's watches from his house

The South African Police Service, when contacted by us, refused to comment.

But the latest allegations will only add to the impression that the initial investigation into the killing of Reeva Steenkamp was not entirely above reproach.

 

[Estelle]

The Paralympian owns another house in Johannesburg, which he bought for 677,856 pound this year but was not declared as part of his assets in the affidavit.

http://zeenews.india.com/sports/oth...-169-pound-over-undeclared-assets_762147.html

 

[Carol70]

Just some quick observations...Havent been able to watch the video because Im at work but what strikes me the most is where the bullet holes are in the door. They are well below the handle..as opposed to Botha stating that they were high up in the door. Also, Im familiar with those locks, I can easily imagine the key coming out of the door after being bashed in by the bat. Also, the amount of blood on the seat seems, to me anyway, to indicate she may have been sitting on the loo at some point while being shot??

 

[cityslick]

Just some quick observations...Havent been able to watch the video because Im at work but what strikes me the most is where the bullet holes are in the door. They are well below the handle..as opposed to Botha stating that they were high up in the door. Also, Im familiar with those locks, I can easily imagine the key coming out of the door after being bashed in by the bat. Also, the amount of blood on the seat seems, to me anyway, to indicate she may have been sitting on the loo at some point while being shot??

Yea, the location of the holes at the very least puts the theory that he had his legs on the whole time into serious question. It also puts the theory that he chased her all around the house into question because although it's still possible to do that on stumps, it's not quite as believable if he did have his legs on.

What exactly was Botha talking about when he said they were high on the door?

 

[Carol70]

Yea, the location of the holes at the very least puts the theory that he had his legs on the whole time into serious question. It also puts the theory that he chased her all around the house into question because although it's still possible to do that on stumps, it's not quite as believable if he did have his legs on.

What exactly was Botha talking about when he said they were high on the door?

Im not sure but im my mind, he insinuated at least above the handle!! Will check later!

 

[Patticake]

Another article of the bathroom that Estelle posted earlier. Reeva really didn't have anywhere to go!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ter-Oscar-Pistorius-shot-dead-girlfriend.html

Shocking photograph reveals the blood-covered bathroom where sprinter Oscar Pistorius shot dead his girlfriend

 

[TheDuchess]

Yea, the location of the holes at the very least puts the theory that he had his legs on the whole time into serious question. It also puts the theory that he chased her all around the house into question because although it's still possible to do that on stumps, it's not quite as believable if he did have his legs on.

What exactly was Botha talking about when he said they were high on the door?

OK...I'm looking at the holes as marked in the doors and I see the exact opposite. It appears to me that the lock on the door is actually quite high, if I am not mistaken. Given that fact and the fact that the shots would have come from a few feet away from the door, and if the bullet trajectory itself is shown as a downward angle, then it would appear as though his legs were on at the time.

Question-were his legs on when the police arrived? Did he say he grabbed his legs and put them on to carry her down the stairs? Sorry...I can't remember.

 

[shane13]

RE the bathroom door:
I cannot be sure of the scale of the photo. The handle appears to be high up on the door. If so, this does not negate the claims of the holes being on the top part of the door. Likewise we only have 2 of the holes, and thus perhaps the other 2 may be in the panel that was bashed apart.

If you cannot see the original video, here is another one: the bloody bathroom where Oscar Pistorius shot his lover dead - YouTube

Some curious things in the video.
Botha gets the blame for everything. If there is a footprint in some blood, there is no proof that that is Botha's. So many cops went though the house, etc.

There is a claim that one of Oscar's watches was taken, implying a cop took it, which elsewhere it is said to be under investigation. That won't look too good at trial.

 

[shane13]

OK...I'm looking at the holes as marked in the doors and I see the exact opposite. It appears to me that the lock on the door is actually quite high, if I am not mistaken. Given that fact and the fact that the shots would have come from a few feet away from the door, and if the bullet trajectory itself is shown as a downward angle, then it would appear as though his legs were on at the time.

Question-were his legs on when the police arrived? Did he say he grabbed his legs and put them on to carry her down the stairs? Sorry...I can't remember.

Good on you, Dutchess. I posted the same RE the door handle. Interesting some people celebrating, when it appears that the handle is high on the door, and we don't have the other 2 holes. But I noted that I am not sure of the scale of the photo. If the horizontal log is like half way up, then it appears that the handle is way up and the 2 holes are on the top half. Again we don't know where the other 2 holes are.

Another thing I note is that there appears not to be much blood shown on the stairs which seems to contradict some paramedics and others witness accounts. But maybe there was massve blood loss at the top, and we see mostly the bottom part of the stairs?

And yes, his prosthetic legs were on when he carried her down, and when the cops etc arrived.