General Gun Violence/Gun Control

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  • #781
I didn't refer to banning *all* guns either

But there are bans and limitations on bump stocks, high capacity magazines, lightning locks, etc. and tighter controls will probably increase this list.

There are obviously not enough bans or limitations. And not consistently throughout the country. The mass shootings are escalating.

Soon there will have to be armed guards everywhere - malls, supermarkets, schools, post offices, music festivals, all work places - just to try to stop people from very randomly mass-killing innocents.

It is a long way from the freedom that is so desired. The US seems to live under a dark cloud of guns, guns, and more guns.

Each and every one of those guns having been designed to kill - and now to kill more rapidly, more automatically, more lethally.
 
  • #782
States that have enacted firearm laws aimed at protecting public safety such as Red Flag laws have been very effective at curbing violence which is why more states are enacting them.

I don't think I'll be able to post the link from the Cato Institute (without it being modsnipped) about the serious problems with Red Flag laws and the abuse of them.

In a nutshell though, even being interested in guns can get you a restraining order, and they're very open to abuse.
There are obviously not enough bans or limitations. And not consistently throughout the country. The mass shootings are escalating.

Soon there will have to be armed guards everywhere - malls, supermarkets, schools, post offices, music festivals, all work places - just to try to stop people from very randomly mass-killing innocents.

It is a long way from the freedom that is so desired. The US seems to live under a dark cloud of guns, guns, and more guns.

Each and every one of those guns having been designed to kill - and now to kill more rapidly, more automatically, more lethally.
You don't need armed guards if everyone is carrying a sidearm.
 
  • #783
I don't think I'll be able to post the link from the Cato Institute (without it being modsnipped) about the serious problems with Red Flag laws and the abuse of them.

In a nutshell though, even being interested in guns can get you a restraining order, and they're very open to abuse.

You don't need armed guards if everyone is carrying a sidearm.
The red flag law in my state allows a family member or LE to petition a court to remove weapons from a mentally unstable person. Mental stability has to be proved to the satisfaction of a judge. I have yet to see any proof the law is being "abused" as you claim.

JMO
 
  • #784
A red flag law can be unconstitutional, depending on how it’s written.


The attorney who successfully argued the unconstitutionality of the Red Flag law, Daniel Strollo, said the law allows a "very quick and easy mechanism to deprive somebody of their fundamental Second Amendment rights."

"You have people who are essentially not medical professionals expressing medical opinions that result in the deprivation of rights," Strollo said. "And you have a procedure that essentially allows somebody to lose those rights without ever having gone in front of a judge."
 
  • #785
A red flag law can be unconstitutional, depending on how it’s written.


The attorney who successfully argued the unconstitutionality of the Red Flag law, Daniel Strollo, said the law allows a "very quick and easy mechanism to deprive somebody of their fundamental Second Amendment rights."

"You have people who are essentially not medical professionals expressing medical opinions that result in the deprivation of rights," Strollo said. "And you have a procedure that essentially allows somebody to lose those rights without ever having gone in front of a judge."

It seems to me that anything that is suggested or is being tried, in order to try to curb the mass shootings, is invalidated by arguments such as this lawyer's argument. "2nd amendment from the year 1791, don't violate my right to own a musket."

Why won't the US pull together to stop the unending horror?

191 mass shootings in the first 127 days of this year. Link
 
  • #786
It seems to me that anything that is suggested or is being tried, in order to try to curb the mass shootings, is invalidated by arguments such as this lawyer's argument. "2nd amendment from the year 1791, don't violate my right to own a musket."

Why won't the US pull together to stop the unending horror?

191 mass shootings in the first 127 days of this year. Link
I think it is a huge issue and will be a factor in the 2024 election. Too many politicians don't care about public safety, they care about sales of guns and $$$$ into their own pockets.

JMO
 
  • #787
A red flag law can be unconstitutional, depending on how it’s written.


The attorney who successfully argued the unconstitutionality of the Red Flag law, Daniel Strollo, said the law allows a "very quick and easy mechanism to deprive somebody of their fundamental Second Amendment rights."

"You have people who are essentially not medical professionals expressing medical opinions that result in the deprivation of rights," Strollo said. "And you have a procedure that essentially allows somebody to lose those rights without ever having gone in front of a judge."
This article from yesterday indicates the NY Red Flag law is being enforced.


The association lists statistics showing that the number of ERPO cases have grown from 95 in 2021, then up to 584 in 2022, and now 377 so far this year with a pace to reach over 1,000.
 
  • #788
Astute school reacts. Bravo to LE! Parent, who worked for LE, charged:


The girl had been detained by school staff for having a semi-automatic handgun, according to the release.

The parent who was charged works for the Cook County sheriff’s police, but has been de-deputized pending the outcome of an internal investigation, according to sheriff’s police.
 
  • #789
Teach it in civics class - if you aren't willing to carry a firearm for your own defence and the defence of others then you should be looked down on as not accepting your civic responsibility.
This is dystopian. Who would want to live in a country like that?
 
  • #790
This is dystopian. Who would want to live in a country like that?
Because it is their homeland?

And despite of all there are thousands coming to the USA seeking refuge.

There are countries in this world which are real hell holes.

JMO
 
  • #791
Most Mass Murders occur in a residence.

Most mass murders offenders are known to their victims.

Most mass murders utilize a handgun as opposed to a rifle.


Knowing this, it is unfathomable to attempt to legislate against Rifles whilst they seldom being used in these events.

Where are the sources of stats to back up your claims?

Even if all of these are true, which I doubt they are…
My life and work has already been highly impacted by mass shootings. Every shooting in schools impacts me, every shooting in a public space, and every shooting using any style of assault weapon.
The fact that it doesn’t seem to impact you has zero bearing on the impact to me.

Based on your logic, and ’stats’ children, teachers, admin, and anyone who is impacted must wait a bit longer to make changes until these shootings impact you personally, because all other impacts to all other people are not relevant enough.

No! I’m pushing for change to decrease the odds of guns that were designed for war could be accessed by disgruntled young men mad at the world who are competing for who gets the most innocent kills And fame.

JMO
 
  • #792
I'd argue that the solution is exactly that - more guns in the hands of the good guys. Many more.

Teach it in civics class - if you aren't willing to carry a firearm for your own defence and the defence of others then you should be looked down on as not accepting your civic responsibility.

I used to live in one of the most drug and crime riddled cities in the UK. I had guns pointed at me twice. At any point, I could have had an illegal firearm (with ammunition) delivered to my house within the hour for about £150. And that's in the UK where there are the tightest gun restrictions in the world!

Criminals break the law. Funny, I know, but making things illegal does not prevent criminals from obtaining them - I just prevents the good guys from getting them as well.

I agree with the personal choice to carry in these public places and also schools- because I have a right to protect myself. Do I think it would ever fly to make guns mandatory? No. The US is about freedoms, not forcing things on law abiding citizens.

I agree that the only way to stop a shooter is to use deadly force- people miss that mass shooters are most often shot dead by a gun.
It is obvious why these shooters don’t choose a police station, a gun range, an airport, to attack. They want the most injuries with what they presume to be the least resistance.

Making it mandatory that every single school in the nation have a security guard per each 100-200 minor students would be supported by most people- I would guess.
What people don’t like is the public carrying- as if me with my life long experience with guns is not some how more stable and experienced that many security guards.

JMO
 
  • #793
This is dystopian. Who would want to live in a country like that?

The Swiss have a similar system, it works for them.
Yes, all citizens are trained to use guns. Their military is a citizen army.
The Swiss epitomize the ideal well regulated militia described in our 2nd Amendment.

JMO
 
  • #794
The Swiss have a similar system, it works for them.
Yes, all citizens are trained to use guns. Their military is a citizen army.
The Swiss epitomize the ideal well regulated militia described in our 2nd Amendment.

JMO
That's entirely different from what was suggested -- that all citizens would be expected to carry a firearm daily for their own defence and the defence of others or be looked down on if they didn't.
 
  • #795
That's entirely different from what was suggested -- that all citizens would be expected to carry a firearm daily for their own defence and the defence of others or be looked down on if they didn't.

That’s why I said ‘similar’.
I have no idea if the culture ‘looks down’ on people who don’t defend their country. My guess is it is mandatory so it isn’t a choice to be looked down upon.

Whether they carry daily or not, I have no idea.
What I do know is pepper spray can’t stop a person with an AR-15.

I‘m capable of entertaining and discussing an idea without agreeing 100%. That is where ideas outside the box come from.

JMO
 
  • #796
That’s why I said ‘similar’.
I have no idea if the culture ‘looks down’ on people who don’t defend their country. My guess is it is mandatory so it isn’t a choice to be looked down upon.

Whether they carry daily or not, I have no idea.
What I do know is pepper spray can’t stop a person with an AR-15.

I‘m capable of entertaining and discussing an idea without agreeing 100%. That is where ideas outside the box come from.

JMO
I was specifically referring to the OP who suggested non-carrying people should be looked down on for not accepting their civic responsibility in the US. That’s not an actual reality anywhere thankfully.

Normal everyday Swiss people are not walking around carrying weapons....


Concealed-carry permits are tough to get in Switzerland, and most people who aren't security workers or police officers don't have one.
 
  • #797
I think they are saying the school threatened the shooter and that just added fuel to his anger. Instead of the threat, the school should have reported him and his parents to authorities.

jmo
I see your point, but it still sounds like victim blaming.
 
  • #798
Where are the sources of stats to back up your claims?

Even if all of these are true, which I doubt they are…
My life and work has already been highly impacted by mass shootings. Every shooting in schools impacts me, every shooting in a public space, and every shooting using any style of assault weapon.
The fact that it doesn’t seem to impact you has zero bearing on the impact to me.

Based on your logic, and ’stats’ children, teachers, admin, and anyone who is impacted must wait a bit longer to make changes until these shootings impact you personally, because all other impacts to all other people are not relevant enough.

No! I’m pushing for change to decrease the odds of guns that were designed for war could be accessed by disgruntled young men mad at the world who are competing for who gets the most innocent kills And fame.

JMO
Where are the sources of stats to back up your claims?

Even if all of these are true, which I doubt they are…
My life and work has already been highly impacted by mass shootings. Every shooting in schools impacts me, every shooting in a public space, and every shooting using any style of assault weapon.
The fact that it doesn’t seem to impact you has zero bearing on the impact to me.

Based on your logic, and ’stats’ children, teachers, admin, and anyone who is impacted must wait a bit longer to make changes until these shootings impact you personally, because all other impacts to all other people are not relevant enough.

No! I’m pushing for change to decrease the odds of guns that were designed for war could be accessed by disgruntled young men mad at the world who are competing for who gets the most innocent kills And fame.

JMO

Attached are some simple graphics for you.

Source link to data here.

You can doubt all you want, the facts here don’t lie. You’re much much more likely to be struck by lightening than to be a victim in a Mass Public Murder.
 

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  • #799
You don't need armed guards if everyone is carrying a sidearm.
I had thought there were lots of good guys with guns in Texas. Yet we had the epic fail at Uvalde, and now Allen TX, where at least 3 vehicles were filmed backing or driving away, rather than taking down the shooter.
 
  • #800
Attached are some simple graphics for you.

Source link to data here.

You can doubt all you want, the facts here don’t lie. You’re much much more likely to be struck by lightening than to be a victim in a Mass Public Murder.


Is your conclusion that stats have been used incorrectly, and that there is actually nothing to react to, no change is needed, people have no reason to be fearful, concerned, or react?
Are you concluding that the media has duped the public into reacting when it isn’t needed?

People are reacting already, have been since Columbine.
Dicks Sporting Goods- the largest sporting good store in the country stopped selling any kind of assault rifle in 2018 after the mass shooting at Parkland, Florida.
USA Today Article 2019 also says Dick’s destroyed $5 million worth of these guns, rather than sell them.

Your posts seems to be saying there is no rise in incidents… the stats say there is.
“Cases in which someone shoots strangers in a public place usually get the most attention. But fatal public shootings are a small fraction of all mass killings. There has been a spike in these types of killings over the past few years, but the rate of occurrence has remained relatively flat since the mid-2000s, especially considering the growth in the U.S. population over that time frame.”
You focused on the but… I focused on the spike in the past few years.

“2022 saw the second most mass killings in a single year since tracking began. The number of victims was the third highest total, only surpassed in 2017 and 2019.”

The only way to support that the “spike” described will continue Is to do nothing and see.

I think we need to act- to prevent more loss of life- kids and young men should not have murder or suicide as a leading cause of death.

“Guns surpassed car accidents as the leading cause of death for children and teenagers in 2020. The school security industry has grown into a $3.1-billion-a-year market, but our database shows that when it comes to mass killings, most children die at home.”

You focused on the ‘most children die at home’, which the article goes on to explain that they are killed by a parent using a gun at home due to domestic violence.

““A guy who kills his wife and children and sometimes then kills himself is the most common type of mass killing,” Fox said. Mass killings take place far more often in private homes than in schools, supermarkets or churches.”

I focused on the fact that this trend is increasing, more child and teen deaths are gun related.
It is not ok that the leading cause of death among children and teens is gun violence in any year in this country, no matter who is shooting them or what gun they use.
To me that is beyond unacceptable, it is disgraceful, embarrassing, and shows a general lack of care for women and children in this country. I’m Livid

And so it is clear by these stats why some groups want to take away guns. You can’t have a mass shooting/ killing without a gun.
I do not want to take away guns from law abiding citizens at all. But, I do want angry men who are capable of homicide or suicide to have a difficult time obtaining the weapons they could use to kill themselves and others.

It seems the public is more tolerate of gangs or thugs killing other gangs or thugs and less tolerant of individual young men attacking strangers, in some cases their significant other, and in other cases their own children.

We should be asking ourselves why these young men are so angry. Why do they see a gun as the answer?

I would love to see the stats on how many of these violent young men play first person shooter video games where the gun they bought was advertised in the game!

JMO
 
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