George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 1

[JerseyGirl]

The defense attorney representing Derek Chauvin is receiving support from a police union’s $1 million legal defense fund, as well as a 12-person team of lawyers so far not seen inside the courtroom.

Defense attorney Natalie Paule, one of the lawyers representing another former officer, Tao Thao, declined to comment on whether their team expects to receive similar financial backing from the police union, citing instruction not to speak with media during Chauvin’s trial.

Derek Chauvin's defense backed by $1M Minneapolis police union fund, 12-lawyer team

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Thanks L.

When do we expect the rest of their trials? Tia.

August, grasshopper

 

[mickey2942]

I think the rookies will settle before any court case. They are well represented and in my opinion far less guilty than Chauvin. Doubt they will be back on the streets but can probably at some point in the near future resume their lives. Thao on the other hand may go to court...he needs to do prison time.

Do we know if they will all have separate cases? Separate trials?

What do you think is appropriate for Lane and Kueng? What should they have done differently?

 

[missy1974]

I too was VERY confused and spent some time on these exhibits. It is clear as mud to me. It MOO appears that the date in the upper right rectangle is when was updated? But jeeeez, iirc that manual was over 800+ pages on one link. I just can't do all of that..

Zimmerman said one thing, but exhibits say another.

We shall have to wait, but know what is coming?

I had my first COVID shot, getting second one... and I need to get out more!

The date in the upper right hand I think is the court filing date?

And yes, Zimmerman's opinion isn't really aligning with the manual from what I have read IMO

I also noticed the 2018 date that Legally Bland noticed and since I was reading yesterday's posts this morning right before seeing that exhibit, I recalled a post about Nelson asking something about Zimmerman's last training being in 2018 or something, so the 2018 date was not lost on me.

I haven't had time to go back an listen to testimony from yesterday, RL gets in the way when it's nice outside

Hope everyone is having a safe and happy Easter weekend

 

[angelainwi]

The date in the upper right hand I think is the court filing date?

And yes, Zimmerman's opinion isn't really aligning with the manual from what I have read IMO

I also noticed the 2018 date that Legally Bland noticed and since I was reading yesterday's posts this morning right before seeing that exhibit, I recalled a post about Nelson asking something about Zimmerman's last training being in 2018 or something, so the 2018 date was not lost on me.

I haven't had time to go back an listen to testimony from yesterday, RL gets in the way when it's nice outside

Hope everyone is having a safe and happy Easter weekend

I thought the 2018 was in reference to a question Nelson asked Zimmerman on the last time he was in a physical fight with a subject

 

[missy1974]

There is an article here by Duke Law Center for Science and Justice that says that, at the time of George's death, the neck restraint was considered non-deadly force by the MPD.

The Minnesota statutes say that neck restraint is deadly force (but am still looking for dates with regard to this statute), but the police manual did not classify it as such. Am wondering if the police manual did not align with the actual law, or if there was an exception for the police.


16 Apr 2012 (MPD manual - not the actual legislation)

Choke Hold: Deadly force option. Defined as applying direct pressure on a person’s trachea or airway (front of the neck), blocking or obstructing the airway (04/16/12)

Neck Restraint: Non-deadly force option. Defined as compressing one or both sides of a person’s neck with an arm or leg, without applying direct pressure to the trachea or airway (front of the neck). Only sworn employees who have received training from the MPD Training Unit are authorized to use neck restraints. The MPD authorizes two types of neck restraints: Conscious Neck Restraint and Unconscious Neck Restraint. (04/16/12)

Conscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with intent to control, and not to render the subject unconscious, by only applying light to moderate pressure. (04/16/12)

Unconscious Neck Restraint: The subject is placed in a neck restraint with the intention of rendering the person unconscious by applying adequate pressure. (04/16/12)

Use of Force Policy in Minneapolis

From your link, I believe it's Statute 609.6 that was added/changed? If so, I think that may have changed in Aug 2020. It doesn't show it here, but that is all underlined at the link and text that is underlined is new language.


EFFECTIVE DATE.
This section is effective August 1, 2020.

Sec. 8.
Minnesota Statutes 2018, section 609.06, is amended by adding a subdivision to read:
Subd. 3.
Limitations on the use of certain restraints.
(a) A peace officer may not use any of the following restraints unless section 609.066 authorizes the use of deadly force to protect the peace officer or another from death or great bodily harm:

(1) a choke hold;

(2) tying all of a person's limbs together behind the person's back to render the person immobile; or

(3) securing a person in any way that results in transporting the person face down in a vehicle.

(b) For the purposes of this subdivision, "choke hold" means a method by which a person applies sufficient pressure to a person to make breathing difficult or impossible, and includes but is not limited to any pressure to the neck, throat, or windpipe that may prevent or hinder breathing, or reduce intake of air. Choke hold also means applying pressure to a person's neck on either side of the windpipe, but not to the windpipe itself, to stop the flow of blood to the brain via the carotid arteries.




https://www.revisor.mn.gov/laws/2020/2/1/

 

[missy1974]

I thought the 2018 was in reference to a question Nelson asked Zimmerman on the last time he was in a physical fight with a subject

oh you might be right! I will make the time to go and listen before Monday morning thanks!

 

[musicaljoke]

Based on Zimmerman's testimony there was never a moment when use of force by Chauvin became necessary.

Not even was the use of force unnecessary, but the police arriving on the scene to check out a suspected $20 forged bill was was unnecessary. Seriously, where in the world do police come out for something like that?

If I called in a complaint about a suspicious $20 bill, I can guarantee that the response would be, "Bring it in sometime when you come by, and we'll check it out". And that would be the end of it.

Nobody would die.

 

[In vino veritas]

The date in the upper right hand I think is the court filing date?

And yes, Zimmerman's opinion isn't really aligning with the manual from what I have read IMO

I also noticed the 2018 date that Legally Bland noticed and since I was reading yesterday's posts this morning right before seeing that exhibit, I recalled a post about Nelson asking something about Zimmerman's last training being in 2018 or something, so the 2018 date was not lost on me.

I haven't had time to go back an listen to testimony from yesterday, RL gets in the way when it's nice outside

Hope everyone is having a safe and happy Easter weekend

I am! A lot of chocolate bunnies have been sacrificed in the effort!!
Happy Easter to all who celebrate and look forward to the trial resuming on Monday.

 

[mom2chloe]

I really have not disected the charges, but have read them and am trying to follow along and watch the trial without it taking up too much of my time (all of us that have followed trials, know what I mean I hope lol)

I guess I will have to go back and listen to yesterdays testimony since I was distracted while listening. I'm not sure how restraining should have stopped after he was cuffed makes any sense? he was cuffed right away, they were trying to get him into the car.

I'm also a bit confused why Zimmerman has never had any training involving this neck restraint, yet the other officers had and it was actually in the manual. Maybe I misunderstood.

I have pondered whether the knee move tactic was from military vs LE training and experience. IMO I hope this is an answered question at some point. DC was previously military and frankly IDK what that training consists of but it may IMO be more of a military maneuver rather than police training.

 

[MsBetsy]

He is hanging his hat on "crowd control" and "never touching Floyd"...he repeated both during the interview. He thinks because he physically never touched him he will be cleared...I am sure privately he is 100% throwing Chauvin under the bus but we will never hear that.

He was asked about his training in crisis intervention and de-escalating in situations such as this at the beginning of the interview.

Yet when he was later asked if he could have done anything different all he could think of was putting Floyd on the sidewalk? There's no way he didn't know what was going on or that he believed Floyd was continuing to struggle for almost ten minutes. He knew the officers were on top of him the entire time. That it was "not his job," just doesn't cut it. He didn't do what any reasonable person would have done. The crowd knew it, and he knew it. Imo

 

[Weki]

In regards to the plea deal.....it def sounds like Chauvin’s defense team was trying to use the public outrage immediately following the incident to leverage a favorable plea deal. He wanted to write his ticket. Do time in a federal penitentiary, which is much more comfortable.

I think this case NEEDED to go to trial. And not be wheeled and dealed in the back room. For the sake of the public trust.

 

[MsBetsy]

Not even was the use of force unnecessary, but the police arriving on the scene to check out a suspected $20 forged bill was was unnecessary. Seriously, where in the world do police come out for something like that?

If I called in a complaint about a suspicious $20 bill, I can guarantee that the response would be, "Bring it in sometime when you come by, and we'll check it out". And that would be the end of it.

Nobody would die.

Yeah, I think it's very uncommon to call officials after a fake bill has been passed and the passer is still there when police arrive. The cashier has no way to know the person was aware the money was counterfeit. It's also not necessary to call 911.

Also, if they didn't check to verify that the bill was fake, was there enough probable cause for an arrest in the first place?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

What to Do if You Receive Counterfeit Money

The United States Secret Service recommends if you receive a counterfeit:

• Do not return it to the passer.
• Delay the passer if possible.
• Observe the passer's description, as well as that of any companions, and the license plate numbers of any vehicles used.
• Contact your local police department or United States Secret Service field office. These numbers can be found on the inside front page of your local telephone directory.
• Write your initials and the date in the white border areas of the suspect note.
• Limit the handling of the note. Carefully place it in a protective covering, such as an envelope.
• Surrender the note or coin only to a properly identified police officer or a U.S. Secret Service special agent.
  
  What to Do if You Receive Counterfeit Money | MyCreditUnion.gov

 

[Cool Cats]

Derek Chauvin used force against suspects before George Floyd. The jury won't hear about 6 of those incidents.

Though police department records show 18 complaints filed against Chauvin over the course of his 19-year career with Minneapolis police, just one will be introduced at trial.

 

[Cool Cats]

High school teacher chains herself to court where Derek Chauvin is standing trial | Daily Mail Online

High school teacher chains herself to court where Derek Chauvin is standing trial for murder of George Floyd to protest police killings in Minnesota

Cops investigate 'suspicious packages'

Buildings are boarded up

The Hennepin County Government Center was heavily fortified ahead of Chauvin's trial

 

[mom2chloe]

Derek Chauvin used force against suspects before George Floyd. The jury won't hear about 6 of those incidents.

Though police department records show 18 complaints filed against Chauvin over the course of his 19-year career with Minneapolis police, just one will be introduced at trial.

I don’t find it odd that he had 18 complaints over 19 years. Maybe that’s just me but I think even an exemplar cop would have complaints lodged regardless. IMO

 

[Cubby]

SMH, both Lane and Keung were post FTO 2 days/5 days IIRC... just out of FTO/field training. Their lifelong career aspirations perhaps. MOO.

and then this...

still watching the video of Thao (rl in the way) and was VERY interesting that Thao mentioned that CUP foods was a known place for the BLOOD gang. (as to MMA ?? yelling you are doing a blood choke...)

Harrump... sitting on hands

I'll NEVER get over that.

I don't think the MMA term has any relation to the gang. It did make me immediately recall Maurice/Morris clothing.

 

[musicaljoke]

What to Do if You Receive Counterfeit Money

The United States Secret Service recommends if you receive a counterfeit:

• Do not return it to the passer.
• Delay the passer if possible.
• Observe the passer's description, as well as that of any companions, and the license plate numbers of any vehicles used.
• Contact your local police department or United States Secret Service field office. These numbers can be found on the inside front page of your local telephone directory.
• Write your initials and the date in the white border areas of the suspect note.
• Limit the handling of the note. Carefully place it in a protective covering, such as an envelope.
• Surrender the note or coin only to a properly identified police officer or a U.S. Secret Service special agent.
  
  What to Do if You Receive Counterfeit Money | MyCreditUnion.gov

Counterfeit Prevention

If you suspect that you’re being offered a counterfeit note, assess the situation to ensure that you are not at risk. Then, do the following:

• Politely refuse the note and explain that you suspect that it may be counterfeit.
• Ask for another note (and check it too).
• Advise the person to check the note with the local police.
• Inform your local police of a possible attempt to pass suspected counterfeit money.
• Be courteous. Remember that the person in possession of the bill could be an innocent victim who does not realize that the note is suspicious.

After a transaction
If you suspect that you’ve received a counterfeit note, give it to the local police.

• If it’s real, you’ll get it back.
• Either way, the police should be informed of possible counterfeiting activity in your community. Timely reporting helps police and prosecutors bring counterfeiters to justice.

 

[Lilibet]

I have pondered whether the knee move tactic was from military vs LE training and experience. IMO I hope this is an answered question at some point. DC was previously military and frankly IDK what that training consists of but it may IMO be more of a military maneuver rather than police training.

I don’t find it odd that he had 18 complaints over 19 years. Maybe that’s just me but I think even an exemplar cop would have complaints lodged regardless. IMO

A document from the civil suit ties in with your opinion. IMO I don’t consider it a defense for Chauvin’s actions.
https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/floyd-family.pdf
Note pages 19-20 #145-152

It references MPD Lieutenant and agent of the City of Minneapolis Bob Kroll- who has served as the president of the Police Officers Federation of Minneapolis since 2015 and has sat on its board since 1996 as a promoter of these attitudes.

-Up and until 2019, the City of Minneapolis permitted officers to receive “Killology” or “warrior style” training, which teaches officers to consider every person and every situation as a potential deadly threat and to kill “less hesitantly.”


-Kroll has further encouraged officers to behave aggressively, stating that MPD officers who do not receive citizen complaints are “low-level slugs” who “[don’t] get out and investigate anything. And that’s not what we’re paying our officers to do.” Kroll has stated that policing should be viewed like “a basketball game, in that if you’re not getting any fouls, you aren’t playing hard enough.”

-In addition, Kroll expressed the opinion that if a suspect could talk in the prone position, he could breathe. This was said to Floyd. It is an accepted scientific fact that the ability to speak does not imply that someone is getting sufficient air to survive. (Page 19 #143)