George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 1

[Weki]

Does anyone find Chauvin’s mannerisms childlike? The way he sits there writing and flips the page, his body language in general etc.

 

[Blondiexoxo]

I think the fact that DC’s colleagues from the same department testified against him will be shattering for the defence. Police usually keep behind the blue wall of silence when it comes to cases like this. I’ve never actually seen an officer testify against another officer before I don’t think. It speaks volumes to how this case is different from officer shootings. There is a difference between an officer making the decision to fire their weapon, and an officer kneeling on someone’s neck for 9 minutes. You can defend a split second decision to shoot a lot easier than you can defend 9 minutes of indifference and recklessness.

The fact is that multiple videos prove over and over again that Chauvin did not reassess GF’s condition. Did not act upon learning he was unresponsive and only upgraded the call to code 3 just before responders arrived after GF had been in a critical condition for minutes. He was aware of the ‘crowd’ (I’ve honestly seen more people outside my local shop waiting forever it to open) but by no means ‘scared’ or ‘intimidated by them’. He didn’t even care that he was being recorded. he didn’t care one single iota that GF was begging for breath. He kept that knee in position, until he had no choice but to move it.

An off duty fire fighter and the 911 operator called the police on the police. You wouldn’t do that unless you were absolutely horrified by what you just saw.

 

[mickey2942]

Does anyone find Chauvin’s mannerisms childlike? The way he sits there writing and flips the page, his body language in general etc.

He is a bully. And now, doesn't know how to act in a situation where he is not in control and can't "bully" his way out of it. No doubt he sees this as being completely over exaggerated, and that this entire situation was the fault of GF.

Maybe he thinks that he can beat this.

I am going to guess that they allowed him bail because dealing with him in jail was too much work. My own opinion. He was a high maintenance prisoner, who had to be kept safe.

Minority Officers Barred From Guarding Derek Chauvin in Jail, Lawsuit Alleges

 

[missy1974]

20:26:29 THIS TIME WAS DISCUSSED TRIAL DAY 2 WITH GH ON STAND AS “SHE DOESN’T BELEIVE THAT… WHAT IS THIS TIME?

Nelson tells her, 8:26:29 was when she first walked on the scene and paramedics had been called at 8:21, that's an abnormal response time based on your experience?

she answered "I don't believe that"

So that time stamp was when she got on the scene.

 

[Dotta]

Does anyone find Chauvin’s mannerisms childlike? The way he sits there writing and flips the page, his body language in general etc.

He is writing furiously and endlessly - one might take him for a court stenographer haha. But seriously, I think it is a way to avoid eye contact and lessen stress. Once I saw him wringing his hands and nervously pulling on his fingers. I think he is really scared.

 

[Marysmith]

Does anyone find Chauvin’s mannerisms childlike? The way he sits there writing and flips the page, his body language in general etc.

Reminds me of Mark Sievers.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I think the fact that DC’s colleagues from the same department testified against him will be shattering for the defence. Police usually keep behind the blue wall of silence when it comes to cases like this. I’ve never actually seen an officer testify against another officer before I don’t think. It speaks volumes to how this case is different from officer shootings. There is a difference between an officer making the decision to fire their weapon, and an officer kneeling on someone’s neck for 9 minutes. You can defend a split second decision to shoot a lot easier than you can defend 9 minutes of indifference and recklessness.

The fact is that multiple videos prove over and over again that Chauvin did not reassess GF’s condition. Did not act upon learning he was unresponsive and only upgraded the call to code 3 just before responders arrived after GF had been in a critical condition for minutes. He was aware of the ‘crowd’ (I’ve honestly seen more people outside my local shop waiting forever it to open) but by no means ‘scared’ or ‘intimidated by them’. He didn’t even care that he was being recorded. he didn’t care one single iota that GF was begging for breath. He kept that knee in position, until he had no choice but to move it.

An off duty fire fighter and the 911 operator called the police on the police. You wouldn’t do that unless you were absolutely horrified by what you just saw.

Just an insert as I'm this moment watching Thao's interview with FBI and BCA to see what I might add to the timeline.

In the video below, at a little after 1:12:30, he states that he asked ?Elaine? to confirm the ambulance was coming. She verified to him that it was a CODE 2. He said that HE /THAO escalated it to a CODE 3 at that time.

When queried by BCA on why he escalated, he said due to the environment that was occuring in the hostile crowd. About a minute or two later, BCA probes further as to his concern for GF, and he stated I was concerned with the crowd and I would hope that the other officers would do their job and check on him and do their job.

Going back to sync this up with my timeline from body cameras I actually had noted who was on the sidewalk at this timeframe

20:21:14 Trial Day 3 testimony by Lt Rugel – Thao body cam – LE heard to say “code 3”. [e.d. NOTE: There is not one person on the sidewalk at this time that I see on the body cam view, although shown and heard that the 61 y/o had been on scene.]

20:21:30 Trial Day 3 screenshot showing only 4 at the time on sidewalk (cashier, MMA guy, viral video girl and another I didn’t write in my notes)

20:21:35 123096 - 330 EMS CODE 3 [e.d. Code 3 = get here quick with lights and sirens. Verified by Thoa BCA interview it was he who updgraded it after asking Elaine is ambulance coming, she said Code 2 yes, and he upgraded to CODE 3 because of the environment that was occuring the the hostile crowd Timestamp in interview 1:12:35-→>and Thao stated NOT due to concern with GF]

20:21:39 Trial Day 3 testimony by Lt Rugel – Thao body cam – Seen on sidewalk at this time are two people #1) White shirt/jeans girl on sidewalk 2) Grey shirt/blue pants on sidewalk. No one else

20:22:30 Trial Day 3 testimony by Lt Rugel – Keung body cam – GF sounding very weak now when speaking

20:22:47 Trial Day 3 testimony by Lt Rugel – Thao body cam – 5 folks on sidewalk at this time #1 MMA guy #2 Cashier guy? #3 White shirt/blue jeans #4 Grey shirt/blue pants, #5 Lime green shirt (little cousin just returning to scene from being in the store) #6 61 y/o man

......sorry, I was about to say more about the interview... it's one where too much to express right now iykwim.

ETA: Might help to show video I was referring to DOH!

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[Weki]

He is writing furiously and endlessly - one might take him for a court stenograpger haha. But seriously, I think it is a way to avoid eye contact and lessen stress. Once I saw him wringing his hands and nervously pulling on his fingers. I think he is really scared.

Maybe that’s what I’m picking up on - vulnerability. He’s afraid. The whole world practically hates him. And he’s all alone it seems. His wife left him. It will be really interesting to see if and who comes to sentencing to speak on his behalf!

 

[SouthAussie]

Just an insert as I'm this moment watching Thao's interview with FBI and BCA to see what I might add to the timeline.

In the video below, at a little after 1:12:30, he states that he asked ?Elaine? to confirm the ambulance was coming. She verified to him that it was a CODE 2. He said that HE /THAO escalated it to a CODE 3 at that time.

When queried by BCA on why he escalated, he said due to the environment that was occuring in the hostile crowd. About a minute or two later, BCA probes further as to his concern for GF, and he stated I was concerned with the crowd and I would hope that the other officers would do their job and check on him and do their job.

Going back to sync this up with my timeline from body cameras I actually had noted who was on the sidewalk at this timeframe

20:21:14 Trial Day 3 testimony by Lt Rugel – Thao body cam – LE heard to say “code 3”. [e.d. NOTE: There is not one person on the sidewalk at this time that I see on the body cam view, although shown and heard that the 61 y/o had been on scene.]

20:21:30 Trial Day 3 screenshot showing only 4 at the time on sidewalk (cashier, MMA guy, viral video girl and another I didn’t write in my notes)

20:21:35 123096 - 330 EMS CODE 3 [e.d. Code 3 = get here quick with lights and sirens. Verified by Thoa BCA interview it was he who updgraded it after asking Elaine is ambulance coming, she said Code 2 yes, and he upgraded to CODE 3 because of the environment that was occuring the the hostile crowd Timestamp in interview 1:12:35-→>and Thao stated NOT due to concern with GF]

20:21:39 Trial Day 3 testimony by Lt Rugel – Thao body cam – Seen on sidewalk at this time are two people #1) White shirt/jeans girl on sidewalk 2) Grey shirt/blue pants on sidewalk. No one else

20:22:30 Trial Day 3 testimony by Lt Rugel – Keung body cam – GF sounding very weak now when speaking

20:22:47 Trial Day 3 testimony by Lt Rugel – Thao body cam – 5 folks on sidewalk at this time #1 MMA guy #2 Cashier guy? #3 White shirt/blue jeans #4 Grey shirt/blue pants, #5 Line green shirt (little cousin just returning to scene from being in the store) #6 61 y/o man

......sorry, I was about to say more about the interview... it's one where too much to express right now iykwim.

Thank goodness there was CCTV looking down on that whole situation. I can only imagine the lies these officers would have been able to get away with (about a hostile mob) if there had been no CCTV.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Nelson tells her, 8:26:29 was when she first walked on the scene and paramedics had been called at 8:21, that's an abnormal response time based on your experience?

she answered "I don't believe that"

So that time stamp was when she got on the scene.

Thanks! Added/corrected the timeline for the next version. That makes sense from the documentation of who arrived when. I may go back and capture more later.

TIA to any and all who can make additions, corrections, suggestions for the next version of our timeline, or have any questions as to clarifications.

 

[Lilibet]

Thanks for the link.

My OP wasn't about that part of the article so my opinion of the clubs owner remains the same. JMO

Got it.

Seems a bit strange to me that the owner of the club hired Chauvin over an extended period of time given his stated behavior. She must have condoned it. JMO

Derek Chauvin knew George Floyd "pretty well" and was "afraid" of black people, nightclub coworkers say

Yes, 17 years is a long time to put up with Chauvin’s aggressive, hair-trigger behavior toward her customers that she describes. If she ends up being called as a witness, that’s something she needs to answer.

 

[missy1974]

These are all of the incidents the State asked to introduce at trial:

1. On March 15, 2014, Defendant restrained an arrested male by placing his body weight on the male’s upper body and head area as the male laid in the prone position on the ground. Defendant reported that he used this restraint to control the male’s movements and to place the male in handcuffs. See MPD CCN 2014- 082863.

2. On February 15, 2015, Defendant restrained an arrested male by applying pressure to the male’s lingual artery below the male’s chin bone and pressing the male against a wall. Defendant then pulled the male to the ground, placed him in a prone position, and placed handcuffs on the male. Defendant kept the male handcuffed in the prone position until other officers arrived to aid him in placing the male in a squad car. See MPD CCN 2015-054320.

3. On August 22, 2015, Defendant participated in rendering aid to a suicidal, intoxicated, and mentally-disturbed male. Defendant observed other officers fight with and tase the male. Defendant then observed other officers place the male in a side-recovery position, consistent with training. Defendant rode with the male to the hospital to receive medical care. Officers involved in the response received a commendation for their appropriate efforts and received feedback from medical professionals that, if officers had prolonged their detention of the male or failed to transport the male to the hospital in a timely manner, the male could have died. See MPD CCN 2015-317385.

4. On April 22, 2016, Defendant restrained an arrested male by placing both of his hands around the male’s neck and applying pressure to both sides of the male’s neck. Defendant then forced the male backwards onto the sidewalk and handcuffed him. After Defendant placed the male in handcuffs, he stood the male up. Defendant’s actions resulted in a small crowd of concerned citizens to view Defendant’s actions. The male later complained of asthma, and paramedics were called to the scene. See MPD CCN 2016-141710.

5. On June 25, 2017, Defendant restrained an arrested female by placing his knee on her neck while she laid in prone position on the ground. Defendant shifted his body weight onto the female’s neck and continued to restrain the female in this position beyond the point when such force was needed under the circumstances. See MPD CCN 2017-235836.

6. On September 4, 2017, Defendant detained an arrested juvenile by applying a neck restraint, flipping the juvenile on his stomach, and pinning him to the floor. Defendant continued to restrain the juvenile in this position beyond the point when such force was needed under the circumstances. See MPD CCN 2017- 337738.

7. On March 12, 2019, Defendant detained an intoxicated male on the ground by applying a neck restraint on the male while sitting on the male’s lower back. Defendant continued to restrain the male in this position beyond the point when such force was needed under the circumstances. See MPD 2019-71230.

8. On July 6, 2019, defendant kicked an intoxicated male in the midsection and then applied a neck restraint on the male until the male was rendered unconscious. Defendant continued to restrain the male in this position beyond the point when such force was needed under the circumstances. See MPD 2019-19749.


Complaints

• 03-1999, Civilian Review Authority, DEMEANING TONE, SUSTAINED, ORAL REPRIMAND
• 03-1999, Civilian Review Authority, DEROGATORY LANGUAGE, SUSTAINED, ORAL REPRIMAND
• 03-1999, Civilian Review Authority, LANGUAGE--OTHER, SUSTAINED, ORAL REPRIMAND
• 04-2100, Civilian Review Authority, Closed - No Discipline
• 05-2306, Civilian Review Authority, Closed - No Discipline
• 09-2643, Civilian Review Authority, Closed - No Discipline
• 09-2680, Civilian Review Authority, Closed - No Discipline
• 12-3244, Office of Police Conduct Review, Closed - No Discipline
• 13-09814, Office of Police Conduct Review, Closed - No Discipline
• 13-10527, Office of Police Conduct Review, Closed - No Discipline
• 13-32189, Office of Police Conduct Review, Closed - No Discipline
• 14-14106, Office of Police Conduct Review, Closed - No Discipline
• 14-23776, Office of Police Conduct Review, Closed - No Discipline
• 15-04541, IA , Closed - No Discipline
• 15-12394, Office of Police Conduct Review, Closed - No Discipline
• 20-06870, Office of Police Conduct Review, Closed - No Discipline
• A10-140, Internal Affairs, Closed - No Discipline
• A10-269, Internal Affairs, Closed - No Discipline
• A11-185, Internal Affairs, Closed - No Discipline
• FR08-06, Internal Affairs, Closed - No Discipline
• IA06-76, Internal Affairs, Closed - No Discipline
• IA07-39, Internal Affairs, ABUSE OF DISCRETION, SUSTAINED, LETTER OF REPRIMAND
• IA07-39, Internal Affairs, MVR, SUSTAINED, LETTER OF REPRIMAND
• IA10-172, Internal Affairs, Closed - No Discipline
• P11-115, Internal Affairs, Closed - No Discipline
• P12-174, Internal Affairs, Closed - No Discipline

Page

https://mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov/me...otice-of-Intent-to-Officer-Other-Evidence.pdf

so I had to go and look for the ruling on these incidents and why the judge ruled the way he did. Something I didn't know was.. incidents 2 and 4 were when he was off duty and working at the nightclub and Midtown Global Market (? not sure what that is)

Here is the memo with the judge's reasonings, I haven't read it all, but found the reasons why the judge did not allow the others. First, because they were not the same situation's, second because the State never charged him with anything in those incidents and his supervisors 'approved' of the use of force in the incidents. (starts around page 47) There may be more reasons, but just scanned it looking for the main reasons. Interesting. I know some of you may already know all this, but I didn't and I'm guessing there are others that didn't too

https://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov/media/High-Profile-Cases/27-CR-20-12646/Memorandum03242021.pdf

 

[Marysmith]

Got it.



Yes, 17 years is a long time to put up with Chauvin’s aggressive, hair-trigger behavior toward her customers that she describes. If she ends up being called as a witness, that’s something she needs to answer.

Right?!?! Always struck me as ridiculous that she is saying that after the fact.

 

[NoSI]

DBM. Found answer.

 

[Lilibet]

Ben Crump, the Floyd family attorney, discusses the trial so far, including “bombshell moments.”

Derek Chauvin Trial: George Floyd's family describes heart wrenching experience in the courtroom during Chauvin's trial, attorney says - CNN

 

[SouthAussie]

Yes, 17 years is a long time to put up with Chauvin’s aggressive, hair-trigger behavior toward her customers that she describes. If she ends up being called as a witness, that’s something she needs to answer.

I expect (without knowing) that the answer will be that it is good to have known police persons associated with your business. Ones who know who the trouble makers are, and can potentially make their lives difficult when they are on police duty. That could be a contributing factor to deterring bad behaviour within the club.

Though I can't imagine how she would word such a thought.

It reminds me of the shops that encourage officers to stop in for free donuts and coffee. To have a police presence known in their shop, and deter crime in that way.

 

[Cubby]

I thought the 2018 was in reference to a question Nelson asked Zimmerman on the last time he was in a physical fight with a subject

Correct.

 

[Rocky1]

If Floyd and Chauvin knew each other so well, it makes me wonder why Floyd called him "Officer" instead of "Derek" or Chauvin."
I don't recall Chauvin calling him "George" or "Floyd" while watching the video either.

 

[SouthAussie]

Is David Pinney on the witness lists?


"Is there any doubt in your mind that Derek Chauvin knew George Floyd?" CBS News asked Pinney. "No. He knew him," Pinney said.

"How well did he know him?" CBS News asked. "I would say pretty well," Pinney replied.

"I knew George on a work basis," he said. "We were pretty close. When it came to our security positions, he was in charge and I worked directly below him as a security adviser."

"He (George) was good at talking with people and establishing himself. He never had to put his hands on anybody. Usually his presence would stop people from having any type of competition with one another."

Pinney also described working with both men and said Floyd didn't want to interact with Chauvin because of Chauvin's aggressive behavior.

"…..he always showed aggression to, you know, George. So George, to keep it professional, George had me intervene and – interface with him instead of himself, just to be – just to get away from the conflict and keep it professional."

Pinney also said: "I can relate to George, how he felt. And I think that's what makes that personal bond between him and I, dealing with Derek."

Man who claimed George Floyd and Derek Chauvin "bumped heads" changes story - CBS News

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Minnesota law says Chauvin’s actions must be viewed through the lens of what a ‘reasonable officer’ in his shoes would do – without 20/20 hindsight.

KARE 11 Investigates: “Reasonable Officer” standard is key in Chauvin murder trial | kare11.com