George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 1

[MsBetsy]

Retaliatory control!!! That is exactly it! Thanks for posting this. Initially it was retaliatory against GF and then it turned into retaliatory against the gathered group yelling at him to stop!

It sure seemed that way to me. Chauvin and Thao in particilar seemed determined to punish Floyd and use him as an example to show the crowd "what happens when you do drugs." Imo

 

[turaj]

came across this BCA Interview with Thao....despite living in Minneapolis some things are just now coming to my attention...Squad 320 really got the Cup Foods call and the squad of Chauvin and Thao were back up...they were called off but chose to go anyway!!! Have to think if the rookies handled this call it would have been much different.

 

[Cubby]

Very interesting! Gives a lot of insight into his behavior on that day! It sounds like all he knew was work and he had anger/control issues and he was able to vent that out as a cop/security guard. The encounter with the mom is chilling!

I’m not so sure now that the wife didn’t see this as an opportunity to get out of the marriage. My understanding is qualified immunity makes it so that Chauvin can not be sued personally. In the Jason van Dyke case, his wife was there in court every day with their priest! And she even testified in the penalty phase. It sounds like the Chauvins were leading separate lives anyway before May 25, 2020. I think she didn’t want to be dragged down with him in all of this. I can’t blame her. But it’s sad!

He should have never been training anyone, and shame on his superiors for turning a blind eye to his behavior. No wonder he thought he could get away with anything.

 

[turaj]

Please keep in mind that even if a trial were public in the traditional sense, the court room can't fit a huge number of people. There might be people who want to attend but cannot because the gallery is full. They would be turned away, but the trial still would be considered public.

I wish there were a way to reassure you that judges, lawyers, other court employees, courtroom watchers, etc. are all dedicated to following the rule of law and are not in cahoots to hold secret trials. The trials are public.

jmo

I think even absent Covid protocol this courtroom would have been much different than the average given the racial tensions outside. The security would have been high...some more spectators but still pretty restricted. It is however very very public and I see no issues with how it is going. I think they are bending over backward to accommodate the Floyd friends and family.

 

[Cubby]

Interesting. I missed the NYT report on this in February. For others who may have missed it, here’s a summary. I can understand why the Justice Department didn’t want to get involved with Chauvin’s offer since the investigation had barely begun and making deals like this may not have been appropriate at that point. It could have made things even worse in Minneapolis. My interpretation of the reporting is that Chauvin was trying to drive a beneficial bargain and exert control. JMO

Reports: Chauvin plea deal denied last year by then-Attorney General Barr | kare11.com

NBC News has confirmed a report that former Minneapolis police officer Derek Chauvin had offered to plead guilty to third-degree murder charges in the days after George Floyd's death, but the potential plea deal was rejected by then-Attorney General William Barr.
<snip>

Chauvin offered to plead guilty to third-degree murder and serve more than 10 years in prison because he "believed that the case against him was so devastating." Chauvin reportedly asked to serve the sentence in a federal prison, and wanted to avoid federal civil rights charges.

However, a former Justice Department official told NBC News that "both politically appointed and career Department of Justice officials had rejected the idea."

"His lawyers were trying to rush us, and we didn't want to be rushed," the official told NBC News.

According to the Times report, Attorney General Barr worried that such a plea deal so early in the investigation could be seen as too lenient.

BBM

It's a shame this won't be known to the jury. He knows he effed up.

 

[Niner]

Okay late to the game on this 1st topic - I personally have never heard of "hooping" before either... so I googled: Is "hooping a drug term?...


Hooping - Urban Dictionary
Urban Dictionary, April 3: bonerjams › define › term=Hoo...
Putting crystal meth in your anus (), either in solid form or dissolved in water, resulting in a quick and intense high...and potential anal irritation. Having sex ...

I'll try this again. Are any of the cases mentioned in this post directly related to this trial? Did Chauvin participate in any of the case's mentioned in this post?

If the answer is no, will these unrelated cases be allowed into this trial as evidence?

Yes - there will be 2 incidents - let me see if @dixiegirl1035 put them in the Media-no dicussion thread... Ah I see she posted it #385!

I’m amazed at their assets really. JMO.

Maybe because he has a tax issue coming up also; from my notes:
*Charged (7/22/20) with 6 counts of aiding & abetting taxes-false or fraudulent returns-filed with commissioner & 3 counts aiding & abetting taxes-failure to file return, report, document. – Omnibus hearing on 6/30/21.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Yes - there will be 2 incidents - let me see if @dixiegirl1035 put them in the Media-no dicussion thread... Ah I see she posted it #385!

SBM. Those two incidents are not in the post that I was asking about.

 

[turaj]

It's a shame this won't be known to the jury. He knows he effed up.

it is not impossible that some jurors heard about the plea deal here in Minneapolis well before they got a jury summons. It is something I cannot get out of my mind and would really be ironic if he walks (don't think he will)

 

[turaj]

Okay late to the game on this 1st topic - I personally have never heard of "hooping" before either... so I googled: Is "hooping a drug term?...


Hooping - Urban Dictionary
Urban Dictionary, April 3: bonerjams › define › term=Hoo...
Putting crystal meth in your anus (), either in solid form or dissolved in water, resulting in a quick and intense high...and potential anal irritation. Having sex ...




Yes - there will be 2 incidents - let me see if @dixiegirl1035 put them in the Media-no dicussion thread... Ah I see she posted it #385!



Maybe because he has a tax issue coming up also; from my notes:
*Charged (7/22/20) with 6 counts of aiding & abetting taxes-false or fraudulent returns-filed with commissioner & 3 counts aiding & abetting taxes-failure to file return, report, document. – Omnibus hearing on 6/30/21.

long history of overspending and debt...he has many tax issues.

 

[MsBetsy]

came across this BCA Interview with Thao....despite living in Minneapolis some things are just now coming to my attention...Squad 320 really got the Cup Foods call and the squad of Chauvin and Thao were back up...they were called off but chose to go anyway!!! Have to think if the rookies handled this call it would have been much different.

Thanks for posting this, I had not seen this interview. Interesting that Thao never mentions a thing about Floyd saying he couldn't breathe until about an hour into the interview, and only after he was prompted. It shows consciousness of guilt, just like when Chauvin neglected to tell Sergeant Pleoger that he had been kneeling on Floyd's neck while attempting to restrain him.
Imo

 

[Niner]

SBM. Those two incidents are not in the post that I was asking about.

Sorry - can't help you then...

 

[CrimeAway]

Law and Crime Network roundup of 1st week trial testimony, and discussion of Mr. (Morries/Maurice) Hall.

 

[turaj]

another BCA Interview with Thomas Lane....one of the rookies..
Thomas Lane BCA interview in George Floyd death

Listening to this makes me angry that Chauvin/Thao decided to come to Cups Foods...Nathan sounds reasonable...of course he was lawyered up but I think he would testify that it was 'TOO MUCH FORCE" and very much regrets not having done more.

 

[missy1974]

I does appear that he'll be ripping apart the training manual etc etc and that it states neck is not deadly force? I found three of the exhibits in this document.. lots re manual but downright confusing to me, and also as to the source of the documents. Defense Exhibits #6, 7 & 8 below

https://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgo...ses/27-CR-20-12951-TKL/Exhibit67807072020.pdf

Also, in Lane's motion it is stated that the neck restraints were indeed considered to be non-deadly force.

Which is NOT what Zimmerman I thought said on the stand. We shall see.

https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/floyd-family.pdf pages 11-14

I have been reading and trying to catch up! I did half watch/listen yesterday. And as I'm catching up, I clicked on a link that TippyLin (?) posted, which took me to some of the documents that you have just linked!!! I was surprised to see that it's considered 'non-deadly force' after what I heard yesterday and reading and catching up here! It even says Two applications - Conscious & Unconscious



Oh and somewhere in there I read that when using the neck restraint, the ball of the officers foot should be on the ground, now I have to go back and watch video.

Thanks to everyone that has been posting

 

[Blondiexoxo]

Has Chauvin ever expressed remorse for George’s death? Or does he honestly think he didn’t do anything wrong? The indifference to life was evident in the moments leading up to and after GFs death. I also think it was terrible that DC was allowed at the hospital afterwards too. He should have been taken away and separated from the other officers, that was a total failure of policy.

 

[MsBetsy]

I have been reading and trying to catch up! I did half watch/listen yesterday. And as I'm catching up, I clicked on a link that TippyLin (?) posted, which took me to some of the documents that you have just linked!!! I was surprised to see that it's considered 'non-deadly force' after what I heard yesterday and reading and catching up here! It even says Two applications - Conscious & Unconscious

View attachment 291206

Oh and somewhere in there I read that when using the neck restraint, the ball of the officers foot should be on the ground, now I have to go back and watch video.

Thanks to everyone that has been posting

As I understand it, the use of deadly force by a police officer is force which a "reasonable person" would consider likely to cause serious bodily harm or death.

It is only justified under conditions of extreme necessity, after all other means have failed.

I think that's what Zimmerman was trying to get at when he said the restraining should have stopped after Floyd had already been handcuffed.

Also, the officers didn't even attempt to try other means, such as talking to Floyd or making any effort to de-escalate the situation. Imo

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I have been reading and trying to catch up! I did half watch/listen yesterday. And as I'm catching up, I clicked on a link that TippyLin (?) posted, which took me to some of the documents that you have just linked!!! I was surprised to see that it's considered 'non-deadly force' after what I heard yesterday and reading and catching up here! It even says Two applications - Conscious & Unconscious

View attachment 291206

Oh and somewhere in there I read that when using the neck restraint, the ball of the officers foot should be on the ground, now I have to go back and watch video.

Thanks to everyone that has been posting

Yes, for folks that are new here, (not you, you are an ol' fogie as gramma would say as to how long at WS ) it is usual in murder and all trials that the jury will get more and more "yes yes yes.... agree with charges".. So at the end of the prosecution CIC (Case in Chief) a juror most likely will be at the top of "HE DID IT! ... This charge is what I'll do!)..

And then the defense has their time.

And they poke holes in what was said in the best possible light (like potential here as to what was in the manual etc.).. and then the jury comes back down.

Us old folks, when we say guilty of the middle charge is here.... we understand that we are at WS, and not on the jury.. and as I stated before my opinion changes almost daily on this one.

So if folks have an opinion NOW, don't fret, many will change as the prosecution moves on.... and then again change their opinion as the defense puts on their case. iykwim.

So if anyone has a different opinion here... great to listen to all aspects for discussion MOO.

As you just saw... this was what the defense used for Lane to get his charge kicked, and was just an example of what defense may offer later. It has NOT BEEN OFFERED in this case... was just food for thought and consideration and discussion,

MOOOOOOOO. Back to my food and cooking and listening to the video that was posted on Thao's interview while I cook. Thanks to that poster... forgot who it was. Good find, do you have more videos of the LE interviews? ETA: Thanks @turaj.. scrolled up and it was you.

 

[missy1974]

As I understand it, the use of deadly force by a police officer is force which a "reasonable person" would consider likely to cause serious bodily harm or death.

It is only justified only under conditions of extreme necessity, after all other means have failed.

I think that's what Zimmerman was trying to get at when he said the restraining should have stopped after Floyd had already been handcuffed.

Also, the officers didn't even attempt to try other means, such as talking to Floyd or making any effort to de-escalate the situation. Imo

I really have not disected the charges, but have read them and am trying to follow along and watch the trial without it taking up too much of my time (all of us that have followed trials, know what I mean I hope lol)

I guess I will have to go back and listen to yesterdays testimony since I was distracted while listening. I'm not sure how restraining should have stopped after he was cuffed makes any sense? he was cuffed right away, they were trying to get him into the car.

I'm also a bit confused why Zimmerman has never had any training involving this neck restraint, yet the other officers had and it was actually in the manual. Maybe I misunderstood.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Has Chauvin ever expressed remorse for George’s death? Or does he honestly think he didn’t do anything wrong? The indifference to life was evident in the moments leading up to and after GFs death. I also think it was terrible that DC was allowed at the hospital afterwards too. He should have been taken away and separated from the other officers, that was a total failure of policy.

Totally O/T.. or not? When I grew up in the 60's, it was the time if your dog pooped in the house, you would take the dog and move back to in front of the poop and say NO NO! As that was the way (forgive me, it was back then!) to train a dog not to do such. To stick their nose into the mess to see what they had done. To face it head on. MOO

Back to On/Topic.....It also got him and his partner out of the crime scene and under supervision. Actually, I think policy worked here, just wish he had been removed earlier from the scene (so he and Thao didn't have a change to view bodycams. I WANT TO KNOW IF they could pull up other's bodycams! Thao said he did NOT review in the car, only the beginning for timestamps.. hmmmmmm)We may never know but I'm looking for such) MOO

And yes, I'm working on the timeline!!! I said this weekend.. but rl in the way and cooking homemade soup, spring gardening, sharing plants and Easter Bunny stuff is getting in the way! I'll target to have by 5 pm eastern Tomorrow as a FIRST DRAFT...

 

[missy1974]

Yes, for folks that are new here, (not you, you are an ol' fogie as gramma would say as to how long at WS ) it is usual in murder and all trials that the jury will get more and more "yes yes yes.... agree with charges".. So at the end of the prosecution CIC (Case in Chief) a juror most likely will be at the top of "HE DID IT! ... This charge is what I'll do!)..

And then the defense has their time.

And they poke holes in what was said in the best possible light (like potential here as to what was in the manual etc.).. and then the jury comes back down.

Us old folks, when we say guilty of the middle charge is here.... we understand that we are at WS, and not on the jury.. and as I stated before my opinion changes almost daily on this one.

So if folks have an opinion NOW, don't fret, many will change as the prosecution moves on.... and then again change their opinion as the defense puts on their case. iykwim.

So if anyone has a different opinion here... great to listen to all aspects for discussion MOO.

As you just saw... this was what the defense used for Lane to get his charge kicked, and was just an example of what defense may offer later. It has NOT BEEN OFFERED in this case... was just food for thought and consideration and discussion,

MOOOOOOOO. Back to my food and cooking and listening to the video that was posted on Thao's interview while I cook. Thanks to that poster... forgot who it was. Good find, do you have more videos of the LE interviews? ETA: Thanks @turaj.. scrolled up and it was you.

This is good for anyone new to WS to read I've been around for awhile but I am one of those that like to try to look at these trials as if I am new to it and don't know anything else lol Some of the testimony was damning, LE opinions of what could or should have been done.

Where I am at right now is... I really don't know where I'm at haha I can argue with myself points either way. From the time I watched the first video on the news, I have always thought that regardless of the circumstances that led up to what we saw, I don't know how they justified not trying to help GF once he was not responding anymore. And of course, I don't expect to hear from DC to get his perspective or thoughts at the time.

One thing that does disturb me is... the EMS response time. The off duty firefighter refused to believe that the response to a code 3 took that long, even said "I don't believe it", which actually highlighed the response time to me (did it to the jurors too?) So could it be argued that the officers also didn't expect it to be that long? But then.. they still could have started CPR...