George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 2

[Cubby]

Chauvin had two knees on him at one point? Or are you referring to Keung's knee on his back? I missed the trial today but I'm catching up now.

At one point Chauvin kept repositioning his knee and applying more pressure by leaning forward and pressing his knee down further. At the same time Keung had his weight on Floyd's back. This was right before Floyd appeared to stop breathing and was unresponsive. (Also when the bystanders started sounding more and more urgent. Chauvin pulled out his mace and aimed it at them.) Keung removed his knee, but Chauvin kept right up until the paramedic told him to move.

Chauvin had BOTH knees on GF. Left knee on his neck. Right knee above shoulder blade.

 

[Gibbo214]

How many pills did GF swallow?

Did they find any pills in his stomach? There would not have been time to digest them.

 

[MsBetsy]

Sure, if he took 1 pill. How many did he take? Plus he had overdosed in March and had been "clean" since so his tolerance would have been lower.

I found it interesting that he was foaming at the mouth during the March overdose and he was doing the same here. IMO, he did overdose again but did it alone cause his death?

Didn't his girlfriend testify that they had both taken pills about a week before he died? He had a certain amount of fentanyl metabolite in his system, so it sounds to me like he had taken fentanyl in the past few days.

Also, the fact that there was suboxone found in the car might point to consistent opioid use. People sometimes use it for the in between periods so they don't get sick. It could have belonged to his friend, though.

 

[MsBetsy]

Chauvin had BOTH knees on GF. Left knee on his neck. Right knee above shoulder blade.

Wow, I never noticed that either. Which witness was testifying?

 

[mom2chloe]

Did they find any pills in his stomach? There would not have been time to digest them.

GF tested positive for Fentanyl, meth and marijuana.

 

[Gibbo214]

GF tested positive for Fentanyl, meth and marijuana.

I thought that he meant just before he was arrested.

 

[Cubby]

Chauvin had two knees on him at one point? Or are you referring to Keung's knee on his back? I missed the trial today but I'm catching up now.

At

Wow, I never noticed that either. Which witness was testifying?

I only caught a moment in passing. It was when the 5 pictures of the neck or.shoulder was being questioned.

But, maybe by "both" they meant both officers.versus both of DC'S knees. I'm on 5 hours of sleep and exhausted......

 

[Boodles]

That's right. They try to create reasonable doubt. Via any means that they can.
In this case, Nelson is trying to create reasonable doubt through George's drug use, the 'unruly mob', the 'knee wasn't on the neck', and any other way that he can.

In other words, by gaslighting the jury. “You didn’t see what you saw. Rather, it was X.”

This tactic irks me to no end. I think a def attorney should make sure a defendant’s rights are not violated. But all too often it turns into obfuscation, gaslighting, and pointing the finger where it doesn’t belong.

Speaking of a defendant, how whacked is it that DC is not supposed to be referred to as “the defendant”? That’s insane. By definition, he’s the defendant. And GF is the victim.

 

[MsBetsy]

I thought that he meant just before he was arrested.

Yeah, I'm not sure how they can tell how recently it was ingested. Fentanyl usually shows up in urine in 1-3 days or 5-24 hours in bloodwork. I don't know if they looked in his stomach. It will be interesting to hear the medical experts testify. I don't think there is any way to prove that he had just ingested a lethal amount before the arrest. The only evidence may be the pill fragments found in the police vehicle, which is not very convincing. Imo

 

[Boodles]

In Minnesota, who decides a sentence: the judge or jury? Anyone know?

 

[Cubby]

Also, I heard "ain't" not ate.

I ate too many drugs, vs. I ain't do any drugs. Smh. Not a chance GF could have enunciated ate too clearly enough to distinguishthose two words.

 

[MsBetsy]

In Minnesota, who decides a sentence: the judge or jury? Anyone know?

I'm pretty sure the judge does.

 

[ilovewings]

In other words, by gaslighting the jury. “You didn’t see what you saw. Rather, it was X.”

This tactic irks me to no end. I think a def attorney should make sure a defendant’s rights are not violated. But all too often it turns into obfuscation, gaslighting, and pointing the finger where it doesn’t belong.

Speaking of a defendant, how whacked is it that DC is not supposed to be referred to as “the defendant”? That’s insane. By definition, he’s the defendant. And GF is the victim.

I agree with everything you said: I would support legitimate honest defense of a defendant, but these days what you get is trashing of the victim and twisting of the facts.
It seems for the criminal defense attorney it is: win at any cost---throw anybody under the bus-- all the defense attorney has to do is cause one juror to have reasonable doubt- and cause a mistrial, which is a win for the defense. In this particular case Nelson's relentless mantra to every single witness about the alleged "hostile unruly crowd" is absolutely disgusting---it is a distraction- look over there, but don't look at Chauvin's body weight suffocating Mr. Floyd to death.

 

[branmuffin]

In other words, by gaslighting the jury. “You didn’t see what you saw. Rather, it was X.”

This tactic irks me to no end. I think a def attorney should make sure a defendant’s rights are not violated. But all too often it turns into obfuscation, gaslighting, and pointing the finger where it doesn’t belong.

Speaking of a defendant, how whacked is it that DC is not supposed to be referred to as “the defendant”? That’s insane. By definition, he’s the defendant. And GF is the victim.

I asked earlier regarding the issue of not calling DC 'the defendant'. I never saw any explanation as to why or if the court concurred I pulled up a Star Tribune article from February that showed the request was one of many by the defense. Another one is to only allow the initial Hennepin County PM report that listed GF COD as cardiopulmonary arrest (complicated by police restraint) . I don't know if these requests were agreed upon.

It just seems like theatre to me.

Derek Chauvin's attorney pushes back on proposed third-degree murder count in Floyd case

 

[MsBetsy]

Also, I heard "ain't" not ate.

I ate too many drugs, vs. I ain't do any drugs. Smh. Not a chance GF could have enunciated ate too clearly enough to distinguishthose two words.

Me too. He said "I ain't," but the rest isn't clear to me. Floyd told them over and over that he couldn't breathe, he just had covid, he was claustrophobic, had anxiety, his mouth was bleeding, and was moaning and begging for his life. I think those are the things that are going to stand out to the jury, knowing the officers heard all that clearly yet did nothing to help him.

 

[Gibbo214]

Yeah, I'm not sure how they can tell how recently it was ingested. Fentanyl usually shows up in urine in 1-3 days or 5-24 hours in bloodwork. I don't know if they looked in his stomach. It will be interesting to hear the medical experts testify. I don't think there is any way to prove that he had just ingested a lethal amount before the arrest. The only evidence may be the pill fragments found in the police vehicle, which is not very convincing. Imo

In any autopsy they test the stomach contents. There are always a set of routine procedures and stomach contents is one of them. If he had ingested pills when he was in the car they would be still in his stomach in pill form.

 

[missy1974]

Here are my notes on the pills.

Item 48 - two pills from console of Mercedes, not complete tablets they had a portion that was cut off, could not read the monogram that was on it, appeared to be round tablets with nothing out of the ordinary. First tablet appeared to have a monogram of zero and a two, five (025) on one side and a capital P on the other side. The second tablet was a partial, round, white tablet that was monogramed three, two, five (325) on one side and capital R and capital P (RP) on the other side. The pills appeared to be consistent with one another.

Quantitative measurements: Ex. 628
First Pill
Fent <1%
Meth 1.9%

Second Pill
Fent <1%
Meth 2%

Item 51 - one pill found in the rear floor of the squad car. Partial tablet with no visual monogram with red staining on the tablet and a rough surface compared to the other two pills.

Quantitative measurements:
Fent <1%
Meth 2.9%

Street fent is typically <1% or slightly higher
Street meth is typically 90% - 100%

Thanks for this! I was listening earlier, but only able to half pay attention! I'm sure we will learn more about these later. How many of those pills does a man his size have to take to get to the level he had?

 

[onceuponadecember]

As much as I hate to say this, and I know it will be a death sentence for saying this, but I feel like Derek is innocent. He was just doing his job, yes he took it too far, I know, but George was resisting arrest. Plus, the amount of drugs in his system, which shouldn't be present to begin with, were incriminating. The problem with letting Derek go is that it would be a death sentence for the US. BLM will get furious and use rumor over fact, and cities will be gone in a snap. This is ridiculous. It's a hard choice here - go with the justice system and let an innocent man go (while the cities burn), or convict an innocent man and prevent pandemonium. It's confusing.

 

[missy1974]

The language used by the State and it's witness was to sway the jury into believing that "average" levels of methamphetamine and Fentanyl found here is not a big deal and are safe on the street. Nothing can be further from the truth. Imo, there's not a city, in this country where the 911 system is not taxed with calls where a person has overdosed by the "average" dose.

I copied this tweet from the last thread:
https://twitter.com/cathyrusson/status/1379909412739903491

#DerekChauvinTrial - Giles tested the two white pills. They had markings for oxycodone/ acetaminophen (Percocet) but the pills tested positive for Methamphetamine/fentanyl. Prosecutor says sometimes homemade pills are given same markings to make look legitimate.
@LawCrimeNetwork

I didn't hear that but will take it for the truth that these were 'fake' Percocet's. Fentanyl overdoses are a huge problem in the province where I live in Canada. Homemade or street Fentanyl is a big problem because there is no way to make sure that 1 pill has the same amount in it as the next pill, I think it would be like playing russian roulette every time you take one! JMO

Also, I don't know about anywhere else, but here... if your car is stolen and then recovered, you can actually make LE test the vehicle for Fentanyl and in some cases it will be insured because no one wants to get into a vehicle that may or may not have had fentanyl in it because it takes so very little to kill someone. (Son's gf had her car stolen just over a year ago and she refused to take her car back, it was insured).

 

[missy1974]

Please be careful. It's not worth creating a haematoma just to prove a point.

Expanding Hematoma's Life-Threatening Neck and Face Emergency Management of Ballistic Injuries - PubMed.

thanks didn't have time today anyway!