George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 2

[Simply Southern]

Did they state in their opinion that definitively GF did not suffer a heart attack? Or, did they say that there was no evidence of a heart attack? I don't want to go back and listen! Lol! Because there is a difference, IMO

The official cause if death...


ME NO.: 20-3700 CARDIOPULMONARY ARREST COMPLICATING LAW ENFORCEMENT
CASE TITLE:
DECEASED:
DATE AND HOUR OF DEATH: 5-25-20; 9:25 p.m. DATE AND HOUR OF AUTOPSY: 5-26-20; 9:25 a.m. PATHOLOGIST: Andrew M. Baker, M.D.
SUBDUAL, RESTRAINT, AND NECK COMPRESSION George Floyd aka Floyd Perry SEX: M

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

It’s going to be fascinating when the defense calls the original prosecutor/s — including Michael Freeman — and four others — which can be found under “Hennepin County Attorney’s Office” in the Defense Witness List.

I’m assuming they were legally removed from this case for shenanigans, but does anyone know the cause?

Also, meth bought illegally off the street is never, under any consideration, “safe.” Absolute nonsense.

 

[Simply Southern]

You are confusing the meth with the fentanyl

It's happened lots this past week lol IMO there is no safe amount of meth, fentanyl seems to be debatable taking all factors into consideration like tolerance levels.

Thanks, its to late to correct.

So sorry @MsBetsy. I must pay better attention.

 

[Simply Southern]

Respectfully, I think that you might be confusing the drug dosage with the concentration of drug found in GF's blood (easy to do). It believe his blood contained 11ng/ml (nanograms/milliliter), fentanyl and the fentanyl patches are dosed in mcg/hr (micrograms/hour).

Don't feel bad, I got the prosecution and defense mixed up a minute ago

So busted

Thanks for keeping me in the straight and narrow.

Apologies to @MsBetsy.

 

[angelainwi]

It’s going to be fascinating when the defense calls the original prosecutor/s — including Michael Freeman — and four others — which can be found under “Hennepin County Attorney’s Office” in the Defense Witness List.

I’m assuming they were legally removed from this case for shenanigans, but does anyone know the cause?

Also, meth bought illegally off the street is never, under any consideration, “safe.”

I am trying to think of why the defense would call Freeman?? He was removed for not being able to be partial. Not sure how that helps the defense?

Motion asks for Mike Freeman to be removed from Floyd case | kare11.com

 

[missy1974]

It seems weird to use the word “safe” when describing meth use. Even more strange to use the words “safe” with meth AND fentanyl. Citing prescription fentanyl use being “safe’ in combination with meth has little merit. It seems more reasonable to think any combination of these drugs used outside of doctors supervision is “unsafe” especially for a man with heart problems.

I agree. Street meth compared to manufactured meth, or street fentanyl compared to manufactured and administered for medical purposes is like comparing apples and oranges to me, but that's JMO

I was just listening to one of the witnesses from the past week about 'safe' levels:

1:05:00 mark if you are interested

 

[Chelly]

Does anyone know the status of Morries Lester Hall's court appearance? He has refused to testify, but will prosecution roll over for that? He has been subpoenaed. He has filed shock notice with Hennepin County court that he will plea the Fifth if called.

 

[angelainwi]

Does anyone know the status of Morries Lester Hall's court appearance? He has refused to testify, but will prosecution roll over for that? He has been subpoenaed. He has filed shock notice with court that he will plea the Fifth if called.

I believe that they may be dealing with the Morries issue Monday morning before bringing in the jury...

 

[missy1974]

I believe the ME doctor said that there were no visible pill fragments noted in the stomach. They also did not test the gastric contents for Fentanyl. IMO, the autopsy was completed hours after GF died, and the possible / probable ingestion of any bootleg street drug-tablet like we saw on the dash would have dissolved in or about 30 minutes from ingestion , as many pills do.

I was surprised that the contents weren't sent for testing, so now we won't know. My guess is... they didn't, because at the time they didn't know about the pill in the back of the squad car, I wonder if it would have been tested had the ME known that at the time of autopsy.

 

[missy1974]

Just want to chime in that a heart attack and heart failure and cardiac arrest are totally different things too. Lots of folks live with heart failure (which is why I haven't posted in awhile). Heart failure just means my heart isn't capable of pumping blood through my body effectively which causes an array of symptoms I try to manage.

A heart attack (myocardial infarction) occurs when blood flow to the heart is blocked. Afaik, there's usually noticeable damage to the heart muscle. Cardiac arrest is when your heart stops which obviously happens in every death.

My best guess is that the defense will argue death due to cardiac arrhythmia (irregular rhythm of the heart) triggered by drug use and Mr. Floyd's bodily response to the altercation with police (adrenalin, endorphins, cortisol, etc and their effect on his heart). I don't agree it exempts the officers in this case though I think a cardiac arrythmia is plausible (as is asphyxia) - but I do believe that's where Mr. Nelson is heading.

JMO and HTH

Thank you! and I hope you feel better soon! Welcome back

 

[kittythehare]

It’s going to be fascinating when the defense calls the original prosecutor/s — including Michael Freeman — and four others — which can be found under “Hennepin County Attorney’s Office” in the Defense Witness List.

I’m assuming they were legally removed from this case for shenanigans, but does anyone know the cause?

Also, meth bought illegally off the street is never, under any consideration, “safe.” Absolute nonsense.

The Chief Medical Officer erroneously stated there is no safe meth level.
Nobody is or has suggested that any type or kind of meth purchased in the street is safe or sensible.
The discussion was around the toxicological results of Mr Floyd's bloods.

I'm not up to speed on the first part of your question.
Somebody will know.

 

[missy1974]

It’s going to be fascinating when the defense calls the original prosecutor/s — including Michael Freeman — and four others — which can be found under “Hennepin County Attorney’s Office” in the Defense Witness List.

I’m assuming they were legally removed from this case for shenanigans, but does anyone know the cause?

Also, meth bought illegally off the street is never, under any consideration, “safe.” Absolute nonsense.

Oh, I know nothing about this... let me grab my bunny ears and hop into that rabbit hole

I agree about the meth, and would say the same about fentanyl. JMO

 

[Chelly]

I believe that they may be dealing with the Morries issue Monday morning before bringing in the jury...

It will be disturbing from a judiciary standpoint if Morries Hall is not brought to court. He plays an important role and needs to appear.

 

[angelainwi]

It will be disturbing from a judiciary standpoint if Morries Hall is not brought to court. He plays an important role and needs to appear.

Nelson is supposed to be writing the questions he wants to ask Hall down to give to the judge. if he does testify it will be very very limited. Probably will only be about George's behavior in the car

 

[kittythehare]

It will be disturbing from a judiciary standpoint if Morries Hall is not brought to court. He plays an important role and needs to appear.

For that would he not have to be granted immunity from self incrimination?
It depends upon how much he saw of the external events from his vantage point?
The other girl in the car will be able to testify what exactly happened when GF was approached by LE, will she not?

 

[CrimeAway]

Yeah, I saw the picture of one of the pills and it looked like a whole pill to me. I think he was trying to hide them or get rid of them, not swallow them.

If GF didn't intend to swallow pills or fragments, but held them in his mouth, some MAY have partially dissolved in saliva IMO. Some drugs can be absorbed across the oral mucosa. In fact, fentanyl has formulations that are orally absorbed:

Transmucosal Immediate-Release Fentanyl (TIRF) Medicines

It's not unusual, IMO, and according to a friend in LE, for people to hide drugs in their mouths when confronted by the police.
Of course, we do not know if that is the case here.

It does seem to be an oversight for the stomach contents not to have been sent for toxicology, IMO.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

It will be disturbing from a judiciary standpoint if Morries Hall is not brought to court. He plays an important role and needs to appear.

If he doesn't testify I wonder if that will lead to a mistrial.

What is a mistrial?

unavailability of a key participant in the trial due to illness, injury, or death; or other reasons.

What is a mistrial?

 

[Chelly]

For that would he not have to be granted immunity from self incrimination?
It depends upon how much he saw of the external events from his vantage point?
The other girl in the car will be able to testify what exactly happened when GF was approached by LE, will she not?

Hall's vantage point is that he was in the store with GF and is believed (by watching the video) that Hall passed GF the $20 bill. Hall was also believed to be GF's dealer.

 

[CrimeAway]

So busted

Thanks for keeping me in the straight and narrow.

Apologies to @MsBetsy.

I'm having all kinds of problems today I just had to edit my last post about 5 times

 

[kittythehare]

well I found the shennanigans
Judge disqualifies Freeman for 'sloppy' work in Floyd case - StarTribune.com

There are many links on search.
#Complicated.