George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 2

[CrimeAway]

well I found the shennanigans
Judge disqualifies Freeman for 'sloppy' work in Floyd case - StarTribune.com

There are many links on search.
#Complicated.

Hmmm, Interesting....

 

[Simply Southern]

Just want to chime in that a heart attack and heart failure and cardiac arrest are totally different things too. Lots of folks live with heart failure (which is why I haven't posted in awhile). Heart failure just means my heart isn't capable of pumping blood through my body effectively which causes an array of symptoms I try to manage.

A heart attack (myocardial infarction) occurs when blood flow to the heart is blocked. Afaik, there's usually noticeable damage to the heart muscle. Cardiac arrest is when your heart stops which obviously happens in every death.

My best guess is that the defense will argue death due to cardiac arrhythmia (irregular rhythm of the heart) triggered by drug use and Mr. Floyd's bodily response to the altercation with police (adrenalin, endorphins, cortisol, etc and their effect on his heart). I don't agree it exempts the officers in this case though I think a cardiac arrythmia is plausible (as is asphyxia) - but I do believe that's where Mr. Nelson is heading.

ETA due to poor phrasing: Cardiac arrythmias can be caused by a lack of oxygen in the heart which is why it and asphyxia are both plausible to me personally. Either/or but obviously both due to his restraint regardless imo.

Those are my thoughts as well.

 

[kittythehare]

If GF didn't intend to swallow pills or fragments, but held them in his mouth, some MAY have partially dissolved in saliva IMO. Some drugs can be absorbed across the oral mucosa. In fact, fentanyl has formulations that are orally absorbed:

Transmucosal Immediate-Release Fentanyl (TIRF) Medicines

It's not unusual, IMO, and according to a friend in LE, for people to hide drugs in their mouths when confronted by the police.
Of course, we do not know if that is the case here.

It does seem to be an oversight for the stomach contents not to have been sent for toxicology, IMO.

If his drugs were street drugs it's unlikely he had the transmucosal variety. I don't believe the quantity of drugs in his system will affect the charges against DC.

I am utterly flabbergasted his entire stomach contents was not sent for analysis though.
Is there any way we could be misreading this, collectively?
I've never seen such an omission in any autopsy in any part of the world unless the entire stomach was absent.
What else is missing?
Is there a fuller autospy report from the one we're all working off somewhere?

 

[kittythehare]

Hall's vantage point is that he was in the store with GF and is believed (by watching the video) that Hall passed GF the $20 bill. Hall was also believed to be GF's dealer.

Okay, but we have that CCTV and the testimonies from the store employees.
We also have the toxicology report and the various tablets in the various locations.
What can he add?
Even if he was the manufacturer of the fake bills and Floyd's dealer?

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

If his drugs were street drugs it's unlikely he had the transmucosal variety. I don't believe the quantity of drugs in his system will affect the charges against DC.

I am utterly flabbergasted his entire stomach contents was not sent for analysis though.
Is there any way we could be misreading this, collectively?
I've never seen such an omission in any autopsy in any part of the world unless the entire stomach was absent.
What else is missing?
Is there a fuller autospy report from the one we're all working off somewhere?

This will make the former attorney/s testimony all the more important, as now the possibility of pressure [via the former prosecution team] had their hands in anything regarding Baker’s findings, etc.

 

[missy1974]

It’s going to be fascinating when the defense calls the original prosecutor/s — including Michael Freeman — and four others — which can be found under “Hennepin County Attorney’s Office” in the Defense Witness List.

I’m assuming they were legally removed from this case for shenanigans, but does anyone know the cause?

Also, meth bought illegally off the street is never, under any consideration, “safe.” Absolute nonsense.

I think I know who wrote the note while meeting with Dr. Baker now. It was mentioned in his testimony yesterday too, he was asked if he met with prosecutors in the case where notes were taken or something like that.

He and others were removed because they met with the ME without a non-attorney present, which was in violation of Minnesota state law and it now leaves an opportunity for them to be called as witnesses. There may be other reasons, but this one seems to be the majority of the reason. JMO

 

[Gibbo214]

If his drugs were street drugs it's unlikely he had the transmucosal variety. I don't believe the quantity of drugs in his system will affect the charges against DC.

I am utterly flabbergasted his entire stomach contents was not sent for analysis though.
Is there any way we could be misreading this, collectively?
I've never seen such an omission in any autopsy in any part of the world unless the entire stomach was absent.
What else is missing?
Is there a fuller autospy report from the one we're all working off somewhere?

Yes, it is routine anywhere.

 

[kittythehare]

This will make the former attorney/s testimony all the more important, as now the possibility of pressure [via the former prosecution team] had their hands in anything regarding Baker’s findings, etc.

I see.
Nobody asked him why he hadn't sent the stomach contents for analysis, did they?
Why not?
Or did they and I missed it?

 

[CrimeAway]

If his drugs were street drugs it's unlikely he had the transmucosal variety. I don't believe the quantity of drugs in his system will affect the charges against DC.

I am utterly flabbergasted his entire stomach contents was not sent for analysis though.
Is there any way we could be misreading this, collectively?
I've never seen such an omission in any autopsy in any part of the world unless the entire stomach was absent.
What else is missing?
Is there a fuller autospy report from the one we're all working off somewhere?

I am fairly certain that Dr Baker testified that the stomach contents wasn't sent for toxicology, when he was under cross examination, yesterday Friday April 9.

I'll try and find the timestamp, (at 36:00, thanks @missy1974 ), but here's a link:

ETA: fixed link
ETA: re-fixed link back to the first one!

 

[sds71]

Nobody likes Mike:

“Mike Freeman deliberately chose not to charge Chauvin with 2nd Degree Murder though the evidence in this case supports such a charge. Freeman has routinely charged 2nd Degree Felony Murder when an intentional assault has resulted in the death of the victim. Chauvin’s kneeling on Mr. Floyd’s neck for 8 minutes was an unlawful assault. Freeman provided Chauvin with the benefit of a less serious charge”

Local organizers to circulate petition calling for recall of Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman
Motion Filed To Urge George Floyd Murder Trial Judge To Reinstate Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman To Case
Recall Freeman
https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...1594138367634/Charging_Document_2020_0606.pdf

 

[kittythehare]

I am fairly certain that Dr Baker testified that the stomach contents wasn't sent for toxicology, when he was under cross examination, yesterday Friday April 9.
I'll try and find the timestamp, but here's a link:

I remember the bit about no pills being identified in his stomach but I completely missed the entire gastric content non analysis.
I'm in a bit of a state of cognitive dissonance right now as a result of this bombshell in a murder case??

 

[missy1974]

If his drugs were street drugs it's unlikely he had the transmucosal variety. I don't believe the quantity of drugs in his system will affect the charges against DC.

I am utterly flabbergasted his entire stomach contents was not sent for analysis though.
Is there any way we could be misreading this, collectively?
I've never seen such an omission in any autopsy in any part of the world unless the entire stomach was absent.
What else is missing?
Is there a fuller autospy report from the one we're all working off somewhere?

At the 36:00 mark...

did you do any testing of the content of Mr. Floyd's stomach as part of the toxicology assessment for Mr. Floyd?

BAKER: So I wouldn't do any testing of that, it is possible that we could send it to a lab like NMS for testing but I didn not request that.

 

[kittythehare]

At the 36:00 mark...

did you do any testing of the content of Mr. Floyd's stomach as part of the toxicology assessment for Mr. Floyd?

BAKER: So I wouldn't do any testing of that, it is possible that we could send it to a lab like NMS for testing but I didn not request that.

Thank you for finding that, would have taken me all night.
Need to check routine autopsy tests state Minnesota, will revert when I find it if nobody finds it faster

 

[BUF]

It’s going to be fascinating when the defense calls the original prosecutor/s — including Michael Freeman — and four others — which can be found under “Hennepin County Attorney’s Office” in the Defense Witness List.

I’m assuming they were legally removed from this case for shenanigans, but does anyone know the cause?

Also, meth bought illegally off the street is never, under any consideration, “safe.” Absolute nonsense.

This article has a little information about the attorneys in it... prosecution and defense.

Here's what to know about the Derek Chauvin trial

 

[missy1974]

Nobody likes Mike:

“Mike Freeman deliberately chose not to charge Chauvin with 2nd Degree Murder though the evidence in this case supports such a charge. Freeman has routinely charged 2nd Degree Felony Murder when an intentional assault has resulted in the death of the victim. Chauvin’s kneeling on Mr. Floyd’s neck for 8 minutes was an unlawful assault. Freeman provided Chauvin with the benefit of a less serious charge”

Local organizers to circulate petition calling for recall of Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman
Motion Filed To Urge George Floyd Murder Trial Judge To Reinstate Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman To Case
Recall Freeman
https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...1594138367634/Charging_Document_2020_0606.pdf

That is interesting. Will be interesting if they do call him as a witness.

 

[kittythehare]

This link not great
Things To Know - Autopsy 101 | Post Mortem | FRONTLINE | PBS

Did the second autopsy send gastric contents to the laboratory does anybody know?
Surely both did not fail the victim?
Is it possible?

 

[kittythehare]

Nobody likes Mike:

“Mike Freeman deliberately chose not to charge Chauvin with 2nd Degree Murder though the evidence in this case supports such a charge. Freeman has routinely charged 2nd Degree Felony Murder when an intentional assault has resulted in the death of the victim. Chauvin’s kneeling on Mr. Floyd’s neck for 8 minutes was an unlawful assault. Freeman provided Chauvin with the benefit of a less serious charge”

Local organizers to circulate petition calling for recall of Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman
Motion Filed To Urge George Floyd Murder Trial Judge To Reinstate Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman To Case
Recall Freeman
https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...1594138367634/Charging_Document_2020_0606.pdf

YIIKES.
wheels within wheels.

 

[missy1974]

Thank you for finding that, would have taken me all night.
Need to check routine autopsy tests state Minnesota, will revert when I find it if nobody finds it faster

We were discussing that earlier this week, the stomach contents, in regards to how long a pill would take to disolve or not, if the contents would test positive for any of the drugs, etc. I think most of us assumed that it would have been sent, and I thought it said that in the autopsy report, but I checked again earlier today, it does not say in there whether it was or wasn't.

I think it doesn't seem right, but that's JMO

 

[kittythehare]

We were discussing that earlier this week, the stomach contents, in regards to how long a pill would take to disolve or not, if the contents would test positive for any of the drugs, etc. I think most of us assumed that it would have been sent, and I thought it said that in the autopsy report, but I checked again earlier today, it does not say in there whether it was or wasn't.

I think it doesn't seem right, but that's JMO

How much time did he spend on the autopsy?
Wouldn't have taken 5 minutes to aspirate and send it off to a lab, especially as he'd actually looked at it and could describe it..
stunned!

 

[MsBetsy]

If GF didn't intend to swallow pills or fragments, but held them in his mouth, some MAY have partially dissolved in saliva IMO. Some drugs can be absorbed across the oral mucosa. In fact, fentanyl has formulations that are orally absorbed:

Transmucosal Immediate-Release Fentanyl (TIRF) Medicines

It's not unusual, IMO, and according to a friend in LE, for people to hide drugs in their mouths when confronted by the police.
Of course, we do not know if that is the case here.

It does seem to be an oversight for the stomach contents not to have been sent for toxicology, IMO.

Yes, some may have dissolved in his mouth, but I think he had taken most of the fentanyl earlier. For all we know it could have been from the day before. I don't think there is any way to know for sure. The ER doctor testified that he saw no signs of overdose.

Did Dr. Baker say he did not test the stomach contents? I would think they would for a homicide case, just to rule out other possibilities. (ETA I just read that he did not send a sample of stomach contents for testing... He also did not take a picture of Floyd's heart.)

Anyway, now that he has confirmed an overdose was not the cause of death, along with the other expert testimony, I think the defense will have a hard time convincing the jury that the COD was an overdose and the officer's actions did not play a significant role.