George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #2

[iluvmua]

And why is it okay for GZ to be walking around the neighborhood he should have been familiar with to find an address, but TM was taking "too long" to go home in a neighborhood he was visiting and may not have been as familar with?

GZ was suspicious of TM and that is fine, but couldn't TM been suspicious of GZ too? I think it is very possible that TM was afraid of GZ.

he obviously was not afraid of him if he punched him in the face and broke his nose and then started bashing his head into the sidewalk.

 

[Karmady]

This guy seems angry from some reason. Maybe it's just his tone of voice.

probably defensive from the lawsuit against the HOA

eta: and I'm listening to him now and he's testifying chapter and verse what he would say in that suit to negate the HOA liability -- don't follow, call the police. It's a liability issue, nothing more, imo

 

[jaxibear]

BBM

I disagree, if you ask someone who they are and that person gets pissed off because they don't like you asking questions and starts throwing blows, all bets are off.

Shaeffer explained this pretty well yesterday and is the states biggest hurdle for a murder conviction, because they can prove who started the confrontation.

If TM was a 17 year old girl and some strange man started asking her questions, I would expect her to do everything in her power to get away from him, even if she had to throw blows to do so. Would people think she hit him because she was "<modsnip> that he was asking questions or glad that she warded off a potential attacker? Why should a 17 year old boy feel any less threatened?

 

[Nymeria]

HA!
Witness went to say do not FOLLOW....and stopped himself!

 

[iluvmua]

If TM was a 17 year old girl and some strange man started asking her questions, I would expect her to do everything in her power to get away from him, even if she had to throw blows to do so. Would people think she hit him because she was <modsnip> that he was asking questions? Why should a 17 year old boy feel any less threatened?

so you don't think it's possible for someone to get pissed off because someone else is asking them a simple question that they don't like?

 

[jaxibear]

he obviously was not afraid of him if he punched him in the face and broke his nose and then started bashing his head into the sidewalk.

I disagree. I think hitting him could very well be a reaction of fear.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I would think you would want to take in what she has to say. She was actually part of this, though via telephone.

Yes she is, But again, It is her and only her words on what happened that night and we know she lied about it before.

So it is subjective evidence to me. I only believe what GZ says that is backed up by real evidence too.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

If TM was a 17 year old girl and some strange man started asking her questions, I would expect her to do everything in her power to get away from him, even if she had to throw blows to do so. Would people think she hit him because she was "<modsnip> that he was asking questions or glad that she warded off a potential attacker? Why should a 17 year old boy feel any less threatened?

You just can not say that same thing. This was a big male regardless of age. He was over 6 ft in shoes as you can see in the video at 7-11. A 17 yr old girl is a whole other issue and it is not an even swap out.

 

[Schuby]

If TM was a 17 year old girl and some strange man started asking her questions, I would expect her to do everything in her power to get away from him, even if she had to throw blows to do so. Would people think she hit him because she was "pissed off" that he was asking questions or glad that she warded off a potential attacker? Why should a 17 year old boy feel any less threatened?

It's not that he shouldn't feel threatened, it's that there is reason to believe that how he responded to the situation put GZ in fear for his life. If GZ had been following a 17 year old girl it is unlikely she would have been shot because it is unlikely she would be capable of beating him to the point of fear for his life.

 

[Kensie]

Wrote a blog last night about George Zimmerman's key expert in this case Vincent Di Maio and how he flipped for the State in our case:

http://twoinnocents.wordpress.com/2013/06/25/flipped/

WOW, KCL you have such a wonderful writing style. I really enjoyed reading this and again I am sorry for the heartache and pain that you have had to endure.

 

[Nymeria]

I have a question.

A few of you have referenced a witness (or witnesses) who saw TM on top of GZ, or saw him being beaten.

Who are they?
And why is there so much issue about GZ lying about it if there are actual witnesses?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I have a question.

A few of you have referenced a witness (or witnesses) who saw TM on top of GZ, or saw him being beaten.

Who are they?
And why is there so much issue about GZ lying about it if there are actual witnesses?

There is no issue about GZ lying if you ask me. It is the interpretation that is up for debate.

I think it is the same witness that took pictures of his head.

 

[tinkabella]

so you don't think it's possible for someone to get pissed off because someone else is asking them a simple question that they don't like?

Its possible but there is NO evidence of that :drumroll:

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

See you all after lunch.. It should be an interesting afternoon!

 

[whoanellie]

There is no evidence to support the claim that Trayvon was loitering or lurking beyond GZ's own self-serving claims. My belief is that GZ was a little overly suspicious and not the best judge of whether someone was loitering or lurking.

The evidence that Trayvon was trying to avoid GZ comes from GZ own lips "He's running" just as we hear GZ's truck door open. And "These *******s always get away". I don't take that to mean that Trayvon was running towards GZ.

Why was Trayvon running. He clearly noticed that GZ was following him or watching him. GZ says "Now he's staring at me".

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Its possible but there is NO evidence of that :drumroll:

There is no evidence it didn't happen either..

 

[jaxibear]

It's not that he shouldn't feel threatened, it's that there is reason to believe that how he responded to the situation put GZ in fear for his life. If GZ had been following a 17 year old girl it is unlikely she would have been shot because it is unlikely she would be capable of beating him to the point of fear for his life.

I understand what you are saying, but since TM is the one that is dead, IMHO, he also had reason to fear for his life. How do we know that TM did not see the gun and feel terrified of a strange man with a gun?

 

[iluvmua]

I have a question.

A few of you have referenced a witness (or witnesses) who saw TM on top of GZ, or saw him being beaten.

Who are they?
And why is there so much issue about GZ lying about it if there are actual witnesses?

The witness who saw TM on top of GZ is "John" (I don't know if that is his real name or not).

He is the one who said he was going inside to call 911.

 

[corundogs]

IMO, unless someone is a police officer or other position of authority granted to them in the "normal channels" (owner/manager of property for example)...you don't get to demand what I am doing, anywhere, anytime. If you tell me you are NW, then I tell you I live here...that needs to be the end of it. You don't get to demand otherwise. We all know criminals SAY all sorts of things in order to get you to give them what they want. They are utility man, they are repair man, etc.

Do you give up any and all information just because someone on a dark rainy night follows you and then demands it of you?? I SURE AS HELL HOPE NOT!!!

And if you are following me, and not telling me why with a good answer...and I feel threatened, I get to defend myself.

This whole case is self-defense and/or stand your ground (yes, I realize they didn't go for the SYG defense, but many are surprised why not).

Why can't TM be the one defending himself...or the one "standing his ground". Because GZ was AT THE VERY LEAST in the beginning, the aggressor - the one doing the following - even if you say that TM became the aggressor. And when TM said "Why are you following me?" what did GZ say he said? Do we know?

We allow cops to do this, because they are trained and paid to do it. GZ was NOT!!

This is how I see this. Race is not the main point for me, though I see where it falls here.

 

[Schuby]

I have a question.

A few of you have referenced a witness (or witnesses) who saw TM on top of GZ, or saw him being beaten.

Who are they?
And why is there so much issue about GZ lying about it if there are actual witnesses?

It was a neighbor. He described it as a "ground and pound."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...-volunteer-defense-says-in-opening-statement/