George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #2

[ScarlettScarpetta]

President of HOA

 

[Irisha]

Come on...

Of course his injuries prove something. It proves that he was beaten by TM. I understand people not liking GZ but to overlook real evidence is what I meant when I said it was more emotional for people on the side of GZ is guilty.

There is evidence that he was beaten. That can not be ignored.

My personal opinion of GZ means nothing, I don't like or dislike him. I do not know him personally. I have reason to believe Trayvon was scared, and possibly protecting himself and trying to save his life from a gunshot. Rachels testimony (possibly today, I read) will help me determine if he was in fact being followed, scared.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

So GZ went through training by Police for NW. He did not just start one vigilante style.

 

[SilkySifaka]

I need to know more, however, my PERSONAL opinion at this point is that I have not been convinced GZ 'murdered' TM, and I have not been convinced that GZ self-defense 'warranted' shooting TM.

I would have to sway towards manslaughter.

Personally, I see gun use as a privilege that comes with responsibility, and I feel even if you are being assaulted shooting someone should be the last resort; there are many ways to defend yourself. I would have to wonder as a juror why he did not introduce himself, try kicking, punching, biting, screaming, etc; was there anything he tried to do to diffuse the situation before using his weapon? To my knowledge at this point there is no other evidence of a struggle on TM, other than gunshot. What evidence or testimony will convince me that shooting someone in the chest was his only way out.

Many say that what happened before the confrontation does not matter; I feel it does if those actions resulted in the consequences, and GZ is an adult and knows that he was putting himself in a potentially confrontational situation by following TM, whether he was doing it on his own, or because he felt the non-emergency guy was guiding him too.

If you leave your car doors unlocked and your stereo gets stolen, the insurance will not pay, because they will tell you, it was your negligence that played a role. Doesn't mean you deserved to have your radio stolen, but you are held accountable to a degree.

Using a gun should always be the last alternative, and maybe GZ truly had no other choice, but as of yet, I am not convinced, but like I said, not convinced he 'murdered' TM either, so manslaughter for me.

Thank you for letting me share my thoughts

For me, the fact he had ample opportunity to use his gun and did so negates the idea that it was not premeditated. That he needed to unholster it and work the trigger and then decide to shoot says he wasn't getting a "beating" and clearly tm's hands werent over his mouth if he could scream so there is a lot of lying going on. He was in no fear of his life. He could have punched back or otherwise dealt with it, even saying he was NW and the police were called. His mouth and his gun hand were free to use as he chose.,

 

[cityslick]

I need to know more, however, my PERSONAL opinion at this point is that I have not been convinced GZ 'murdered' TM, and I have not been convinced that GZ self-defense 'warranted' shooting TM.

I would have to sway towards manslaughter.

Personally, I see gun use as a privilege that comes with responsibility, and I feel even if you are being assaulted shooting someone should be the last resort; there are many ways to defend yourself. I would have to wonder as a juror why he did not introduce himself, try kicking, punching, biting, screaming, etc; was there anything he tried to do to diffuse the situation before using his weapon? To my knowledge at this point there is no other evidence of a struggle on TM, other than gunshot. What evidence or testimony will convince me that shooting someone in the chest was his only way out.

Many say that what happened before the confrontation does not matter; I feel it does if those actions resulted in the consequences, and GZ is an adult and knows that he was putting himself in a potentially confrontational situation by following TM, whether he was doing it on his own, or because he felt the non-emergency guy was guiding him too.

If you leave your car doors unlocked and your stereo gets stolen, the insurance will not pay, because they will tell you, it was your negligence that played a role. Doesn't mean you deserved to have your radio stolen, but you are held accountable to a degree.

Using a gun should always be the last alternative, and maybe GZ truly had no other choice, but as of yet, I am not convinced, but like I said, not convinced he 'murdered' TM either, so manslaughter for me.

Thank you for letting me share my thoughts

BBM

I disagree, if you ask someone who they are and that person gets pissed off because they don't like you asking questions and starts throwing blows, all bets are off.

Shaeffer explained this pretty well yesterday and is the states biggest hurdle for a murder conviction, because they can prove who started the confrontation.

 

[Schuby]

Dee Dee is going to testify today. This is going to be VERY interesting since she lied under oath and she was not 16 like Crump said she was but 18 when this whent down and she's now 19.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-bernie-de-la-rionda

Why did she lie about being in the hospital? Do you know? It seems an odd thing to lie about.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

My personal opinion of GZ means nothing, I don't like or dislike him. I do not know him personally. I have reason to believe Trayvon was scared, and possibly protecting himself and trying to save his life from a gunshot. Rachels testimony (possibly today, I read) will help me determine if he was in fact being followed, scared.

Her testimony is not going to help me much because she is connected to the case and so she may be skewed in her memory of events. She may even have a vested interest.

 

[cityslick]

For me, the fact he had ample opportunity to use his gun and did so negates the idea that it was not premeditated. That he needed to unholster it and work the trigger and then decide to shoot says he wasn't getting a "beating" and clearly tm's hands werent over his mouth if he could scream so there is a lot of lying going on. He was in no fear of his life. He could have punched back or otherwise dealt with it, even saying he was NW and the police were called. His mouth and his gun hand were free to use as he chose.,

That's all well and good in practice but in reality maybe not so much. It's very easy to say he should of done that but it's very different when someone is on top of you, hitting you in the face. Fear is usually the first reaction, not logic.

 

[corundogs]

I would like someone to show me where GZ's injuries are consistent with his story.

Being punched 25-30 times in the face, and having your head violently banged against concrete repeatedly...do NOT present a couple of tiny surface scratches and a banged nose.

They just don't. And from my recollection, that is what GZ said happened.

Also, if you look at the photo of GZ that night with the blood on his lip/nose...he has other scratches that aren't healed, but aren't fresh. If I remember correctly, they said in OS that GZ was training/had trained in MMA Fighting. Mixed Martial Arts. You get banged up pretty good doing that. I know a guy who had his nose broken. And anytime his nose got bumped after that, it would bleed.

Having your head repeatedly banged against concrete...a head without hair...would produce multiple contusions.

And don't tell me that anyone who had that happen wouldn't be immediately taken to the hospital to be checked out. I don't care if police wanted to question him, EMT's would demand it. Or they would be liable, from what I have been told by friends (in a different situation granted)

Those are the things that stand out to me and make me question the whole story.

 

[cityslick]

This guy seems angry from some reason. Maybe it's just his tone of voice.

 

[iluvmua]

Why did she lie about being in the hospital? Do you know? It seems an odd thing to lie about.

She said she lied because TM's mother was right next to her.

Read #7. (actually, I would read the whole thing).

http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0313/mot_for_sanctions_discovery.pdf

 

[missmazzy]

I swore up and down I wouldn't watch this trial, but here I am. I have an unfavorable view of GZ, due to all the lying about money and the bail issue, but otherwise, I don't believe he's a murderer.

This is my opinion, so flaming is unnecessary.... I think both guys were being jerks that night. It was dark, raining, and both were probably afraid. If GZ didn't have a gun, he never would have gone "looking" for TM (I am not a gun owner, but am in favor of the 2nd amendment). The guys got in each other's faces, and I believe TM had GZ on the ground. I think the shooting was self defense, but only in the way that there were so many unfortunate instances that led up to it.

It's a sad situation all around. The Martins (who I believe are nice people), have lost a son, and GZ's life is ruined regardless of the verdict. The media has blown this trial out of proportion, HLN's show last night was disgraceful.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

]For me, the fact he had ample opportunity to use his gun a[/B]nd did so negates the idea that it was not premeditated. That he needed to unholster it and work the trigger and then decide to shoot says he wasn't getting a "beating" and clearly tm's hands werent over his mouth if he could scream so there is a lot of lying going on. He was in no fear of his life. He could have punched back or otherwise dealt with it, even saying he was NW and the police were called. His mouth and his gun hand were free to use as he chose.,

BBM, He had a gun on him. He had one on him for years. Never used it. Did not pull it on people. Actually the evidence shows he was not going around pulling it on people holding them until police arrived.

I just looked at the gun he was carrying and all you have to do is pull the gun flip the safety and shoot. IT is not as complicated as you are making it.

It is a much faster action.

 

[Schuby]

I would like someone to show me where GZ's injuries are consistent with his story.

Being punched 25-30 times in the face, and having your head violently banged against concrete repeatedly...do NOT present a couple of tiny surface scratches and a banged nose.

They just don't. And from my recollection, that is what GZ said happened.

Also, if you look at the photo of GZ that night with the blood on his lip/nose...he has other scratches that aren't healed, but aren't fresh. If I remember correctly, they said in OS that GZ was training/had trained in MMA Fighting. Mixed Martial Arts. You get banged up pretty good doing that. I know a guy who had his nose broken. And anytime his nose got bumped after that, it would bleed.

Having your head repeatedly banged against concrete...a head without hair...would produce multiple contusions.

And don't tell me that anyone who had that happen wouldn't be immediately taken to the hospital to be checked out. I don't care if police wanted to question him, EMT's would demand it. Or they would be liable, from what I have been told by friends (in a different situation granted)

Those are the things that stand out to me and make me question the whole story.

EMTs can't force you to go to the hospital. They are usually pushy about wanting you to go but there is nothing they can do without your consent. I know, I have refused their care twice because I didn't want the ambulance bill which is a couple grand.

His nose and head looked pretty bad to me but, no, I would not say he looked like he'd been punched 20-30 times.

 

[iluvmua]

I would like someone to show me where GZ's injuries are consistent with his story.

Being punched 25-30 times in the face, and having your head violently banged against concrete repeatedly...do NOT present a couple of tiny surface scratches and a banged nose.

They just don't. And from my recollection, that is what GZ said happened.

Also, if you look at the photo of GZ that night with the blood on his lip/nose...he has other scratches that aren't healed, but aren't fresh. If I remember correctly, they said in OS that GZ was training/had trained in MMA Fighting. Mixed Martial Arts. You get banged up pretty good doing that. I know a guy who had his nose broken. And anytime his nose got bumped after that, it would bleed.

Having your head repeatedly banged against concrete...a head without hair...would produce multiple contusions.

And don't tell me that anyone who had that happen wouldn't be immediately taken to the hospital to be checked out. I don't care if police wanted to question him, EMT's would demand it. Or they would be liable, from what I have been told by friends (in a different situation granted)

Those are the things that stand out to me and make me question the whole story.

Where is the evidence that states he was punched 25-30 times?

We don't know how many times he was punched in the face.

 

[jaxibear]

and then you say




BBM

Why is it okay for GZ to want to avoid someone he doesn't know following him home but not okay for TM to want to avoid someone he doesn't know following him home? Why the double standard?

And why is it okay for GZ to be walking around the neighborhood he should have been familiar with to find an address, but TM was taking "too long" to go home in a neighborhood he was visiting and may not have been as familar with?

GZ was suspicious of TM and that is fine, but couldn't TM been suspicious of GZ too? I think it is very possible that TM was afraid of GZ.

 

[popsicle]

This guy seems angry from some reason. Maybe it's just his tone of voice.

It appears his jaw is wired shut...?

 

[Irisha]

nobody is saying Trayvon committed a robbery because there is no evidence of that.

GZ's neighboorhood was being broken into by black males, He noticed a young black male who did not live in his neighboorhood just standing around and looking like he was up to something.

This is why he profiled or whatever you like to call it.

How would he know if Trayvon lived there or not?

GZ IMO has no idea of every person that lives in that neighborhood, he couldn't even see his face, or see the fact he was talking on the phone. Just because you are walking in the early evening, in the rain, talking on a phone with a hoodie on, crossing someone's lawn doesn't make you "up to no good" no matter what someone else did of the same color. How is that suspicious? He called it in, that's all he had to do.

 

[JudyBolton]

Why did she lie about being in the hospital? Do you know? It seems an odd thing to lie about.

I have read that there are a lot of unanswered questions about her - this will be interesting when she is under oath.

 

[Nymeria]

Her testimony is not going to help me much because she is connected to the case and so she may be skewed in her memory of events. She may even have a vested interest.

I would think you would want to take in what she has to say. She was actually part of this, though via telephone.