George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #2

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Can we stick to the facts and not HLN based lies, please.

Can I get an Amen?!

 

[polleypockets]

That's what GZ said he did.

It's in the police reports

nope this is what he said the night of the shooting

"“I don’t know if I pushed him off me [or] he fell off me, either way I got on top of him and I pushed his arms apart,” Zimmerman said as he demonstrated how he spread Trayvon’s arms away from his body. He told the officer that he didn’t remember how he got on top of his victim and continued with his version of events. “But I got on his back and moved his arms apart because when he was repeatedly hitting me in the face and the head,” Zimmerman said, “I thought he had something in his hands. So, I moved his hands apart.” Trayvon, he said, was face down. Again, he says the neighbor with the flashlight came out, he asked that person to help him restrain Trayvon. The police arrived perhaps less than a minute later and he stood up, holstered his weapon and put his hands up."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...zimmerman-trips-over-trayvons-arms-and-hands/

he said he didn't know, but that he did get n TM back and spread his arms, but the pic b4 PD arrived shows TM arms under neath the body

 

[lisalei321]

defend himself from what? Who was he defending himself from?

He could have ran back to the place he was staying in under a minute, well before GZ got off the phone.

How can you defend yourself from anyone when the guy you are beating has no wounds to his hands?

There is no evidence to suggest GZ threw any punches etc at TM.

So how would TM be defending himself from someone who didn't even have the time to react?

I believe he was defending himself from the guy with the gun.

And there is no evidence that TM threw any punches either (no marks on his hands or bruising on his hands)

Sent from my LG Spirit using Tapatalk 2

 

[ahi]

Hate when I have to play catch-up...sorry if asked/discussed:

1. Anyone have an opinion why the HOA pres was so snippy with his answers? Geez, just answer and be respectful...no matter which side is asking...

2. Also, why was the evidence collection lady answer with a little bit of an attitude? Her answers sound either like she is:
a. unsure of her answers, because she answers questions like a question, i.e. "What is this a photo of?" answer: "Zimmerman's right hand?"
or b. like she has an attitude...

 

[raine1212]

I do not want to see any name calling of any witnesses! Posts will be UA'd

 

[katiewonders]

Exactly, proof towards hate crime. There is no sane reason why he pursued a boy who did not look suspicious. In fact given GZ's actions, he was the one who acted suspiciously and I bet TM was terribly frightened by GZ's weapon, agressiveness, hate filled language and hatred.

BBM With all due respect, there are several earlier pages here where it is discussed why TM was, indeed, suspicious to GZ.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

For those looking at the pictures TM was originally on his back when the first officer arrived. That officer flipped him over onto his left shoulder and then again to his back. He did not uncross his feet which is why they are crossed in those pictures.

He rolled him to see if he was alive and perform CPR.

 

[iluvmua]

I believe TM knew he was in imminent danger when he was approached by GZ. I believe TM did exactly as any of my own boys would have done to defend themselves if they were approached by a stranger who had been following and chasing them. They would have tried to hurt the stranger before the stranger hurt them, abducted them, attacked them, or killed them. I think this is was TM did and I don't see that as a crime, I see it as self preservation.

That said, I do think the defense is doing a very good job and I don't think GZ is going to be found guilty of murder. The man was so wrong for ever going after TM but I don't think he will be found guilty. jmo

It was a stupid move on GZ's part to get out of his vehicle but being stupid is not a crime. I also don't think he will be found guilty.

And he should not be found guilty if this jury goes by what the law says and by what the evidence is showing.

 

[jojomonkey]

I believe TM knew he was in imminent danger when he was approached by GZ. I believe TM did exactly as any of my own boys would have done to defend themselves if they were approached by a stranger who had been following and chasing them. They would have tried to hurt the stranger before the stranger hurt them, abducted them, attacked them, or killed them. I think this is was TM did and I don't see that as a crime, I see it as self preservation.

That said, I do think the defense is doing a very good job and I don't think GZ is going to be found guilty of murder. The man was so wrong for ever going after TM but I don't think he will be found guilty. jmo

Thank you, I agree completely.

 

[PaintingAnemone]

How would Martin have known he possessed a concealed firearm? Walking towards someone, behind someone, near someone, even asking that person a question is not a physical act of aggression that would cause self-defense to come into play. You can get all kinds of scared that a person is following you, but it doesn't give you the right to just haul off and punch them. If you're truly so scared, maybe you should use the cell phone you have on you to call 911 and report this guy with a gun that's following you in the dark.

For one thing, stalking is absolutely an aggressive act. Further, the presence of the gun indicates that GZ almost certainly wasn't in fear of anything, since he was capable of responding with deadly force - of course, the fact that he followed Martin to begin with also indicates his lack of fear.

If you are being followed by an unknown individual (or even known, if you know the person to be dangerous) is FRIGHTENING. I'm baffled as to how certain people don't think it wouldn't be. Frightening enough to flee, which Martin obviously did. Zimmerman even admits that. Perhaps the person who knowingly has the ability to respond with deadly force and obviously isn't afraid for his life is the aggressor in this situation. That is what makes the most sense.

What gives a person the right to respond is being confronted, which is exactly what happened when GZ confronted TM. TM was also within his rights to demand to know why GZ was following him, which he did. As to what GZ did at that point, we don't know. Given his lack of fear of Martin, and his ability to respond with deadly force against what was obviously a kid, Zimmerman, imo, likely tried to detain Martin. Martin for his part, likely didn't feel like being detained by some random stranger. Fight ensues. That's on Zimmerman, not on Martin. If you get your tail kicked after starting fight, it's your own fault.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

nope this is what he said the night of the shooting

"“I don’t know if I pushed him off me [or] he fell off me, either way I got on top of him and I pushed his arms apart,” Zimmerman said as he demonstrated how he spread Trayvon’s arms away from his body. He told the officer that he didn’t remember how he got on top of his victim and continued with his version of events. “But I got on his back and moved his arms apart because when he was repeatedly hitting me in the face and the head,” Zimmerman said, “I thought he had something in his hands. So, I moved his hands apart.” Trayvon, he said, was face down. Again, he says the neighbor with the flashlight came out, he asked that person to help him restrain Trayvon. The police arrived perhaps less than a minute later and he stood up, holstered his weapon and put his hands up."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...zimmerman-trips-over-trayvons-arms-and-hands/

he said he didn't know, but that he did get n TM back and spread his arms, but the pic b4 PD arrived shows TM arms under neath the body

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...zimmerman-trips-over-trayvons-arms-and-hands/

This is an opinion paper.. yes?

 

[corundogs]

Just FYI...

I do NOT watch HLN. I don't listen to any talking heads. I watch the trial. Once the live stuff is over, I switch gears...normally even closing websleuths.

I have based my opinions on what I have read of what I believe was the evidence we have seen thus far.

Again, just FYI.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

You are basing this on nothing more than GZ words....sorry, you can't act like this is a fact.

Well, no, you are not allowed to attack someone just for following you, that's a fact. All evidence points to TM attacking GZ, even eye witnesses. People walk behind me on the street all the time, sometimes at night...I don't attack them, it's just common sense.

 

[m00c0w]

I believe TM knew he was in imminent danger when he was approached by GZ. I believe TM did exactly as any of my own boys would have done to defend themselves if they were approached by a stranger who had been following and chasing them. They would have tried to hurt the stranger before the stranger hurt them, abducted them, attacked them, or killed them. I think this is was TM did and I don't see that as a crime, I see it as self preservation.

That said, I do think the defense is doing a very good job and I don't think GZ is going to be found guilty of murder. The man was so wrong for ever going after TM but I don't think he will be found guilty. jmo

Please forgive me if this come across wrongly, and I do not intend this as snark... But if you or your children start beating someone that was doing nothing more than following them, then you or your children will most likely wind up at least taking a ride in a police car and potentially having to post bond.

In order for self-defense to come into play, there has to be a physical act of aggression, or the individual has to verbally threaten you ("I'm going to kill you"). I've said this before in the thread yesterday - but I hope that any reasonable person can understand why the law cannot allow people to beat down a person that was guilty of doing nothing but walking within the proximity of someone else (which is a completely lawful activity).

 

[gxm]

This is the state's witness????? All she is doing is confirming GZ's claim that there was an altercation.

 

[legalmania]

BBM With Florida being a concealed carry state, I bet you would be surprised how many times someone is passed by someone who is packing. Just sayin'

I think there are about 17 states with the Stand Your
Ground law and many others with the Castle Doctrine. So it's not just Florida, there are a lot of states that your passing people who are packing.

 

[DIBSY]

OK...let's go with that.

Where are the injuries to Trayvon's hands, and where is George's blood on Trayvon's hands, body...whatever.

One tiny scratch on one finger on his left hand when he is right handed...and no blood...does not equate to what George says happened, and how he looked.

GZ has a very vivid imagination and seems to have made it up as he went along.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

For one thing, stalking is absolutely an aggressive act. Further, the presence of the gun indicates that GZ almost certainly wasn't in fear of anything, since he was capable of responding with deadly force - of course, the fact that he followed Martin to begin with also indicates his lack of fear.

If you are being followed by an unknown individual (or even known, if you know the person to be dangerous) is FRIGHTENING. I'm baffled as to how certain people don't think it wouldn't be. Frightening enough to flee, which Martin obviously did. Zimmerman even admits that. Perhaps the person who knowingly has the ability to respond with deadly force and obviously isn't afraid for his life is the aggressor in this situation. That is what makes the most sense.

What gives a person the right to respond is being confronted, which is exactly what happened when GZ confronted TM. TM was also within his rights to demand to know why GZ was following him, which he did. As to what GZ did at that point, we don't know. Given his lack of fear of Martin, and his ability to respond with deadly force against what was obviously a kid, Zimmerman, imo, likely tried to detain Martin. Martin for his part, likely didn't feel like being detained by some random stranger. Fight ensues. That's on Zimmerman, not on Martin. If you get your tail kicked after starting fight, it's your own fault.

GZ was afraid, he didn't want to give out his address because of fear of retribution, he was on the phone with LE which precludes any nonsense about stalking. TM fit a specific profile of people who had been committing burglaries in the area, so the racism charge is just knee jerk name calling.

 

[Irisha]

OK that just makes it all weirder.

Those side by side pictures were taken the same night, right?

Why does his nose look so swollen getting into the car, but the photo taken at police station it looks completely different.
WTH!?

My exact questions when I looked at it.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

This is the state's witness????? All she is doing is confirming GZ's claim that there was an altercation.

I think so far all the witnesses have shown is a horrible accident. Nothing more. No proof of Murder.