George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #6

[ScarlettScarpetta]

But a unarmed teen was killed because of GZ assuming he was up to no good. TM ran from GZ plain and simple, these are GZ own words. If I were on the jury, I would wonder why he had to get out to find him when he should have known better to stay put. The dispatcher thought GZ was still in his car when he asked "let me know if he does anything" meaning if he pulls a gun on you since you said he's circling your car. TM had the neighborhood watch manual, went to meetings, etc and they say to not follow or confront, but GZ did just that. Did he have to answer TM when TM asked why he was following him? No, he could have walked away and went back to his car. :twocents:

No. An unarmed teen is dead because he beat on someone with a gun. He is dead because he was beating GZ so badly that he only had one choice to defend himself and fired. AT the time TM's fists were weapons.

It really does not matter why they collided to me. I really feel it was an accident. TM is not going directly home or he would have been there. So he has to be walking around too. GZ is in his own neighborhood also walking around. WHATEVER the reason, They run into each other.

Common sense says that if GZ wanted to confront TM he would have done it Gun drawn to make sure he did not go anywhere or attack him. That is not what the evidence shows. It shows that GZ was being beaten and shot to protect his person.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Some people believe that GZ had planned, for some time, that the next time he saw a similar kid that he was going to preemptively call NEN, follow the kid and then if necessary detain the kid.. He put hollow points in the weapon and chambered one just in case the kid fought back. Ah, and had his story ready in advance re: SYG

no proof whatsoever. Just people making stuff up.

 

[DIBSY]

I say one would need to have GZ scream in that courtyard, in the rain and at night.

Precisely and then maybe, just maybe, his voice could be eliminated or it could be assured. In the mean time, I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that his parents fully know it was Trayvon's pitiful desperate cries for help. To me, it sounds exactly like the voice of a young AA male. Jane S., one of the first witnesses said it was the voice of a boy. I thoroughly agree. :twocents:
I know Tracey Martin initially didn't think it was Trayvon. I don't know why, because it wasn't played loud enough? His hearing is bad? He was too upset? I do not really know of course. But TM's mother knew his voice immediately as most mother's would do.

The premise that the man with a big gun would be crying for help is preposterous, IMO , because George Zimmerman had the element of surprize on his side, was in a habit of going after what he deemed as " suspects", had the MMA training and from what he said and how he sounded on the NEN call, he was pumped full of adrenalin AND testosterone.:moo:

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

GZ believed he was within his rights. Believing something doesn't make it real, doesn't make it lawful.

He was with in his rights. There is no argument to that.

He had a right to carry a gun.
He had a right to be walking around in his neighborhood.
He had a right to protect himself from bodily harm.


All his rights. It is lawful.

 

[Tricia]

Everyone please remember to add "IN MY OPINION " to all posts that are not known as fact

 

[MeeBee]

No. An unarmed teen is dead because he beat on someone with a gun. He is dead because he was beating GZ so badly that he only had one choice to defend himself and fired. AT the time TM's fists were weapons.

It really does not matter why they collided to me. I really feel it was an accident. TM is not going directly home or he would have been there. So he has to be walking around too. GZ is in his own neighborhood also walking around. WHATEVER the reason, They run into each other.

Common sense says that if GZ wanted to confront TM he would have done it Gun drawn to make sure he did not go anywhere or attack him. That is not what the evidence shows. It shows that GZ was being beaten and shot to protect his person.

I agree except I think the reason for the altercation is important. Very possible and likely that George fired his gun because he felt overpowered and was being beaten up. But the reason for the confrontation starting is important. If it started because George was following Trayvon and he felt threatened, then does that make George 100% innocent in the whole thing? Is it 100% self defense if the person who used the deadly force placed their own self in a position where the had to defense themselves anyway? That is the real dilemma to me.

 

[iluvmua]

Approximately 300 ft. And given DeeDee's testimony that TM told her he was "In back of" Mr. Martin's fiance's house at one point, I'm wondering if that would mean TM walked past the house and continued on down the path before encountering GZ ... who was approaching the altercation spot, the "T", from the other direction.

Well, Brandi Green said that TM was on her porch.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIbHdS5OG6A"]Zimmerman v. Trayvon - Proof Martin Went Home, Then Back Out To Get George? - YouTube[/ame]

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Precisely and then maybe, just maybe, his voice could be eliminated or it could be assured. In the mean time, I believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that his parents fully know it was Trayvon's pitiful desperate cries for help. To me, it sounds exactly like the voice of a young AA male. Jane S., one of the first witnesses said it was the voice of a boy. I thoroughly agree. :twocents:
I know Tracey Martin initially didn't think it was Trayvon. I don't know why, because it wasn't played loud enough? His hearing is bad? He was too upset? I do not really know of course. But TM's mother knew his voice immediately as most mother's would do.

The premise that the man with a big gun would be crying for help is preposterous, IMO , because George Zimmerman had the element of surprize on his side, was in a habit of going after what he deemed as " suspects", had the MMA training and from what he said and how he sounded on the NEN call, he was pumped full of adrenalin AND testosterone.:moo:

He was only pumped full of fear. There is nothing to prove any of what you said. Only your opinion.
And that is the problem. The states case is solely based on opinion and no fact.

 

[m00c0w]

Spoke to a long time gun permit owner. He said he avoids any altercations. Always will step back or allow plenty of distance between potential trouble maker and himself.
You do not want an aggressive person close to you.
You always clearly announce you are carrying a gun ahead of time before tempers arise.

BBM

Not true, and that can go so wrong, so fast. You start telling someone you have a gun, and that quickly turns into, "Officer! He threatened to shoot me with his gun!" And since you're carrying concealed, how does he know you have a gun unless you told him or he saw it?

Nice way to get your permit revoked.

 

[ncgramma]

No. They got to stay because they are his family. They may be called.

Martin family got to stay because TM was a minor. Under other circumstances no family members would have been allowed in the courtroom until after they had testified in the main case and been released.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I agree except I think the reason for the altercation is important. Very possible and likely that George fired his gun because he felt overpowered and was being beaten up. But the reason for the confrontation starting is important. If it started because George was following Trayvon and he felt threatened, then does that make George 100% innocent in the whole thing? Is it 100% self defense if the person who used the deadly force placed their own self in a position where the had to defense themselves anyway? That is the real dilemma to me.

I don't think that either one was looking for a fight. I think they ran into each other and one occurred. I also do not believe that GZ stuck first.

Remember he knows that the police are on their way and can already be there. That is where the states case falls apart.
This whole even takes place while GZ thinks the police will be there any second or could already be there.

That to me is the biggest support of GZ telling the truth.

 

[iluvmua]

Isn't it standard procedure to go to the Grand Jury on a murder indictment? What reason did the State give for not going to the GJ? I hope when this is all over, GZ sues for damages.

I believe so.

Angel Corey is the reason why it did not go to the Grand Jury first, she did not want it to go to the grand jury because, IMO she knew they would come back and say there is not enough evidence to take this to trial.

 

[DIBSY]

But a unarmed teen was killed because of GZ assuming he was up to no good. TM ran from GZ plain and simple, these are GZ own words. If I were on the jury, I would wonder why he had to get out to find him when he should have known better to stay put. The dispatcher thought GZ was still in his car when he asked "let me know if he does anything" meaning if he pulls a gun on you since you said he's circling your car. TM had the neighborhood watch manual, went to meetings, etc and they say to not follow or confront, but GZ did just that. Did he have to answer TM when TM asked why he was following him? No, he could have walked away and went back to his car. :twocents:

Your words say it all, concisely, PaperDoll:

Unarmed teen was killed simply because of GZ assuming he was up to no good. TM ran from GZ plain and simple, these are GZ's own words.

If those words stay focused in the minds of the Jury, GZ will be found guilty, of what he himself admitted to.:seeya:

 

[MeeBee]

BBM

Not true, and that can go so wrong, so fast. You start telling someone you have a gun, and that quickly turns into, "Officer! He threatened to shoot me with his gun!" And since you're carrying concealed, how does he know you have a gun unless you told him or he saw it?

Nice way to get your permit revoked.

Disagree. I don't think identifying yourself to someone and letting them know you have a gun is a crime. That seems the responsible thing to do. That ends any confrontation or anything right there in its tracks. No one is going to attack a person or run from a person with a gun.

Don't know enough about guns to know that'll get your permit revoked but that doesn't sound accurate to me.

 

[whoanellie]

No. An unarmed teen is dead because he beat on someone with a gun. He is dead because he was beating GZ so badly that he only had one choice to defend himself and fired. AT the time TM's fists were weapons.

no proof whatsoever. Just people making stuff up.

 

[Chelly]

We don't want this discussion thread shut down. I hope we all can remain respectful despite our emotions.

 

[MeeBee]

I believe so.

Angel Corey is the reason why it did not go to the Grand Jury first, she did not want it to go to the grand jury because, IMO she knew they would come back and say there is not enough evidence to take this to trial.

That seems remarkably unconstitutional.

 

[PaperDoll]

No. An unarmed teen is dead because he beat on someone with a gun. He is dead because he was beating GZ so badly that he only had one choice to defend himself and fired. AT the time TM's fists were weapons.

It really does not matter why they collided to me. I really feel it was an accident. TM is not going directly home or he would have been there. So he has to be walking around too. GZ is in his own neighborhood also walking around. WHATEVER the reason, They run into each other.

Common sense says that if GZ wanted to confront TM he would have done it Gun drawn to make sure he did not go anywhere or attack him. That is not what the evidence shows. It shows that GZ was being beaten and shot to protect his person.

TM had every right to not go into his home, he had every right to stay and talk on the phone.

We don't know how GZ got his head scratched, he could have scratched it on the pavement while in his struggle. Where were GZ hands while TM was on top? I don't believe that TM had the upper hand the whole time. I believe TM saw the gun and there was a struggle over it, even if GZ was on bottom. TM had a right to defend his life, he had no weapon, GZ did. :twocents:

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

no proof whatsoever. Just people making stuff up.

No. That is fact.

GZ was beaten.
Gz shot to defend his person.
Those are facts proven by evidence.

 

[kimlynn]

He was not trying to cause an altercation. He was trying to see if he was still around so when the police came he could tell them where he was last seen.

I don't believe he was trying to confront him.

IN FACT it shows he was trying to avoid contact.

He could have, upon seeing TM, Rolled down his window and said.. " HEY, "

But he did not. He did not approach him at all. When he was in direct light. WHY would he do this in the pitch dark?? He would not. He was not trying to hunt down TM. I think that his history shows this too. He was not a confronter. He called and let the police do their job. every time.

Can you explain why GZ wouldn't give the police a location to meet up with him if his intent was to go back to his vehicle?
I think it is clear from the call to police that GZ intended to continue looking for Martin.
Even after GZ says "okay" in response to the dispatcher saying 'we don't need you to do that' his voice sounds strained while giving his name as though he is still running.
IMO