Germanwings Airbus crash 24 March #1

[LietKynes]

Reminded me a bit of the debris field from United 93 , just spread out over a much larger area.
I hope they find answers for the family members ; and that no one is hurt during recovery operations.

What a horrible day today for so many !!! I hope whatever happened went very quickly.

Rest in eternal peace to all of the victims of this tragedy. :cry:

 

[CARIIS]

per France 24 there is ice at the crash site already making everything worse - thank god we got a black box, now lets just hope with impact like that data is recoverable! I hope it is the CVR as oppossed to the data recorder ! THey tend to tell a "better" story....

Yes, there is a report here about how the weather conditions are expected to deteriorate overnight - so they will probably struggle with the search and recovery, as the site is apparently very difficult to reach anyway. No roads, just helicopter access ... which may not be possible in strong winds.


The remote location of the crash makes access difficult and conditions are expected to deteriorate over the next 12 hours as a storm system moves into the region, bringing rain, strong winds and high-elevation snow.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...rbus-a320-crashes-in-french-alps-live-updates

 

[SouthAussie]

Germanwings official statement

https://www.germanwings.com/en.html

 

[SouthAussie]

France’s leading air traffic controller union, SNCTA, called off a strike planned for Wednesday to Friday after news of the crash.

“We are suspending our planned strike as a result of the emotions created in the control rooms by the crash, particularly in Aix-en-Provence,” the union’s spokesman Roger Rousseau said.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/20...on-board-crashes-in-french-alps/#.VRHyAfmUceg

 

[emirates1957]

In catch up mode. I am guessing this is going to be a completely different recovery compared to Air Asia. That was interesting reading up thread about crews refusing to fly as a result of this accident. Sounds like they don't have confidence in the company itself. If there is anything I can do from this end, just let me know.

 

[emirates1957]

As mentioned I am still in catch up mode.....one of the engineers mentioned structural damage or sabotage. I have never heard of the carrier myself, however they operate the same as Lufthansa one would think they would have an impeccable track record.

 

[emirates1957]

Has anything been definitely ruled out, like a bird strike? I honestly have no idea if there are birds at that kind of altitude.

Normally a bird strike would happen upon the take off and landing phases, quite common, also quite recoverable.

 

[zwiebel]

Emirates1957 - local witnesses all talk about loud noises BEFORE the plane crashed. They all knew it sounded wrong, and those who saw it, knew it was too low.

 

[zwiebel]

Fighter plane flying beside it needs explaining, in my opinion. I believe the sightings.

 

[CARIIS]

In catch up mode. I am guessing this is going to be a completely different recovery compared to Air Asia. That was interesting reading up thread about crews refusing to fly as a result of this accident. Sounds like they don't have confidence in the company itself. If there is anything I can do from this end, just let me know.

My sense on this is media flipped it - when it first broke the angle of some flights being cancelled as a result of crew "shortage" it was reported solely as some were friends and emotionially not fit to fly as oppossed to having specific fears (Paris 24)

LUth is having lots of labor problems - main line crews do not like Germanwings taking segments away from them. THey were striking last week and had a 12 day strike a couple of months back - so sadly I think this might be acting out stuff re labor and management and how much traffic Luth is giving over to GermanWings, possibly reducing mainliners flight times working conditions etc.

But the plane has had a history of fly by wire taking control away from the flightcrew - its sister maiden flight crashed into a forrest on its worldwide debut flight in front of the entire world on its rollout

And in pondering the stable descent (relatiily) in conjunction with forward speed being consistant it certainly sounds like a computer thinking it was flying an aircraft in a someone "logical" manner!

kinda thinking explsive decompression, (possible cockpit incapacation) followed by computers getting bad info and taking control . NBC reports it was the cockpit voice recorder as oppossed to the data recorder but I have not heard any one else speicifically stating which recorder had been found



More on there ongoing labor issues directly related to LUth and Germanwings

http://www.usatoday.com/story/today...lots-plan-to-strike-again-on-monday/17548481/

 

[SouthAussie]

The UK Manchester Evening News reports that a woman from Manchester and her young son are believed to have been on board the Germanwings aircraft.

It says that Marina Lopez-Bello, who was from Spain but living in Manchester, was believed to have taken the flight after returning to her family home in the Pyrenees to attend her uncle’s funeral.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...rbus-a320-crashes-in-french-alps-live-updates

 

[SouthAussie]

Amid reports that the plane had been recently grounded owing to safety concerns, a spokesman for Germanwings said there had been a problem with the door for the plane’s landing gear which was investigated on Monday, but which was not a safety issue.

“It was only a problem with the nose landing gear door, so just the door in front of the nose landing gear, and it had to be repaired not for safety reasons but for acoustic reasons,” he said.

“It was an acoustical problem and not a safety issue.”

He said after the issue was investigated, the plane was passed for flight. “It was cleared to fly again.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...rbus-a320-crashes-in-french-alps-live-updates

 

[emirates1957]

I was just thinking about the one expert indicating it could be the angle of attack sensor icing over. This was a clear day. I have a hard time believing that significant icing could occur at 38,000 ft in the absence of some sort of storm. There just isnt enough moisture at that altitude.

Even on a clear day at 38,000 feet it can be -60 whereby icing conditions can occur. Unfortunately our airbus engineer is not in today. Many times flying at only 15,000 feet we have occurred heaving icing conditions. Still it will be interesting to see what information is recovered. Just such a tragedy.

 

[CARIIS]

Cnn/ NY TImes


Huge................

...... Riecken confirmed that a minor repair had been made Monday to the plane’s front nose gear door — a flap that closes during flight to cover the retracted landing gear — but stressed that even if it had not been fixed, “this would not be something relevant to flight safety.”

Apparently the plane had a problem yesterday with the front nosegear covers. That makes huge sense -- explosive decompression as a result of a nosewheel thing blowing off right as it hits cruise - totally makes sense - highest differntial pressure. What ever it was happened right at crusie.

So the nosewheel cover blew off , right under the cockpit , killing the crew instantly and the computer flew the plane into the mountain. This is also congruent with noises witnesses have described, it fits with intial reports (that have since vanished) that debris was found in a city miles away from actual impact site.

Bet the "debris" will be the nosewheel cover

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/25/world/europe/germanwings-crash.html?_r=0



Just my opin

 

[emirates1957]

My sense on this is media flipped it - when it first broke the angle of some flights being cancelled as a result of crew "shortage" it was reported solely as some were friends and emotionially not fit to fly as oppossed to having specific fears (Paris 24)

LUth is having lots of labor problems - main line crews do not like Germanwings taking segments away from them. THey were striking last week and had a 12 day strike a couple of months back - so sadly I think this might be acting out stuff re labor and management and how much traffic Luth is giving over to GermanWings, possibly reducing mainliners flight times working conditions etc.

But the plane has had a history of fly by wire taking control away from the flightcrew - its sister maiden flight crashed into a forrest on its worldwide debut flight in front of the entire world on its rollout

And in pondering the stable descent (relatiily) in conjunction with forward speed being consistant it certainly sounds like a computer thinking it was flying an aircraft in a someone "logical" manner!

kinda thinking explsive decompression, (possible cockpit incapacation) followed by computers getting bad info and taking control . NBC reports it was the cockpit voice recorder as oppossed to the data recorder but I have not heard any one else speicifically stating which recorder had been found



More on there ongoing labor issues directly related to LUth and Germanwings

http://www.usatoday.com/story/today...lots-plan-to-strike-again-on-monday/17548481/

Thanks for clarifying Cariis.

 

[CARIIS]

Thanks for clarifying Cariis.

hi Emerites and S AUssie nice to "see" you!

 

[GinaSeikwa]

My sense on this is media flipped it - when it first broke the angle of some flights being cancelled as a result of crew "shortage" it was reported solely as some were friends and emotionially not fit to fly as oppossed to having specific fears (Paris 24)

LUth is having lots of labor problems - main line crews do not like Germanwings taking segments away from them. THey were striking last week and had a 12 day strike a couple of months back - so sadly I think this might be acting out stuff re labor and management and how much traffic Luth is giving over to GermanWings, possibly reducing mainliners flight times working conditions etc.

But the plane has had a history of fly by wire taking control away from the flightcrew - its sister maiden flight crashed into a forrest on its worldwide debut flight in front of the entire world on its rollout

And in pondering the stable descent (relatiily) in conjunction with forward speed being consistant it certainly sounds like a computer thinking it was flying an aircraft in a someone "logical" manner!

kinda thinking explsive decompression, (possible cockpit incapacation) followed by computers getting bad info and taking control . NBC reports it was the cockpit voice recorder as oppossed to the data recorder but I have not heard any one else speicifically stating which recorder had been found



More on there ongoing labor issues directly related to LUth and Germanwings

http://www.usatoday.com/story/today...lots-plan-to-strike-again-on-monday/17548481/

yes true but Germanwings and Lufthansa maintain two separate seniority lists and their crews would never ever intermingle (ie. A Lufthansa crew member would never operate a Germanwings flight and vice versa) so labour issues would not be a factor in the number of flights being cancelled as a result. I can see there being a crew shortage at Germanwings due to personal stress and distress but the fact that these are also pilots refusing to fly lend a little more credence to the theory that there may be deeper issues involved that need to be looked at. A pilot is usually able to put emotional issues aside and remain professional in carrying on their assigned duties (not to say that the FA's are not) but if the plot group is also "refusing to fly" this might not solely be based on emotion. The legacy carriers spinning off into new low wage entities is the new norm. Air Asia was one as well. Germanwings, Jetstar, Rouge in Canada etc... A closer look at regulations may be needed.

 

[emirates1957]

Emirates1957 - local witnesses all talk about loud noises BEFORE the plane crashed. They all knew it sounded wrong, and those who saw it, knew it was too low.

It's amazing Zwiebel ...when we look out of the window at work ...we can instinctively hear and notice in an instant if something is wrong. One of the engineers was just reading about it, he said that looking at the debris he thought it looked like an A/C that broke up mid flight. If it was a rapid decompression the loud noise would have resulted at 38,000 ft rather than 4,000 ft. A little off topic but this will give you an indication how easy an accident can happen resulting in devastation. We used to operate Canandian Regional Jets CRJ's they were new to the fleet and the engineer attending our departure had just been checked to line. He forgot to remove his headset which is attached near the front landing gear. When we took off we could hear a loud banging noise almost like somebody trying to knock a door down. In cruise the noise diminished, upon landing it resumed. When the crew did their walk around they noticed the head still attached obviously in pieces. It was a miracle it was not ingested into an engine.

Will continue to hound our staff - hopefully our A320 guy will be on tomorrow.

 

[emirates1957]

yes true but Germanwings and Lufthansa maintain two separate seniority lists and their crews would never ever intermingle (ie. A Lufthansa crew member would never operate a Germanwings flight and vice versa) so labour issues would not be a factor in the number of flights being cancelled as a result. I can see there being a crew shortage at Germanwings due to personal stress and distress but the fact that these are also pilots refusing to fly lend a little more credence to the theory that there may be deeper issues involved that need to be looked at. A pilot is usually able to put emotional issues aside and remain professional in carrying on their assigned duties (not to say that the FA's are not) but if the plot group is also "refusing to fly" this might not solely be based on emotion. The legacy carriers spinning off into new low wage entities is the new norm. Air Asia was one as well. Germanwings, Jetstar, Rouge in Canada etc... A closer look at regulations may be needed.

That's a perfect example exactly QF and Jetstar A320 crews would never operate on the other A/C albeit being the same equipment type. Nor would the F/A's intermingle between companies. It does sound like there could have been concerns from a crew and safety perspective.

 

[SouthAussie]

Sounds as though it is the cockpit voice recorder that they have found ...

"No distress call was received from the aircraft, but France said one of the two black box flight recorders had been recovered from the site 2,000m (6,000 feet) above sea level. A person familiar with the recovery effort told Reuters that this was the cockpit voice recorder. Investigators will also need the other black box which records flight data, information that is essential for probing air accidents."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...rbus-a320-crashes-in-french-alps-live-updates