Germanwings Airbus crash 24 March #1

[AlwaysShocked]

So the French head of the Aviation Investigation Team is saying the Flight Data Recorder was not found, directly contradicting what the President of France told the press (that the outer casing was found)? Hmmmmm......

And the head of the Germanwings company is making statements saying "I just don't know how an airplane in perfect mechanical condition with two experienced pilots could be involved in a crash like this". Hmmmm....

Sounds to me like everybody is lying through their teeth while gearing up for the onslaught of the press after the voice recordings are "officially" released. Oh, and a second source has now confirmed what was on the audio recorder. And added that the alarm that sounds when a plan is too low to earth can be heard.

 

[sherlockh]

Asking for coffee would be clear from the CVR though. I read it wasn't clear from the recordings why the pilot left the cockpit. Maybe he didn't feel well. Maybe the other pilot put something in his drink. It is just guessing, but apparently not normal for a pilot to just leave like that.

 

[Madeleine74]

It's very normal for a pilot to use the lav. I've personally seen it many times on flights I've been on, including flights 2 hrs or less.

The part that's not normal is an unbalanced pilot in full control of the plane, locking out the other pilot, to crash the plane, killing all aboard.

Lufthansa would have to be in shock at this tragedy. How can anyone wrap their head around a seasoned pilot, trusted by their employer for years, doing something so evil and depraved? The betrayal to all those passengers and their families is unimaginable. And they're right -- a perfectly functioning plane is not supposed to crash into a mountain.

 

[KEVINinTO]

Families of the victims are currently en-route from Dusseldorf to Marseilles

http://www.flightradar24.com/DLH9886/5d85766

 

[KEVINinTO]

Airbus reinforced door procedures and instructions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixEHV7c3VXs

 

[jslk]

It's very normal for a pilot to use the lav. I've personally seen it many times on flights I've been on, including flights 2 hrs or less.

The part that's not normal is an unbalanced pilot in full control of the plane, locking out the other pilot, to crash the plane, killing all aboard.

Lufthansa would have to be in shock at this tragedy. How can anyone wrap their head around a seasoned pilot, trusted by their employer for years, doing something so evil and depraved? The betrayal to all those passengers and their families is unimaginable. And they're right -- a perfectly functioning plane is not supposed to crash into a mountain.

Isn't it also 'not normal' for the FD to be left with one person in it? I thought I'd read that if a pilot steps out, someone else has to step in? [emoji53]

 

[AlwaysShocked]

From the original article: " The official, who requested anonymity, said investigators are puzzled why the pilot left the cockpit and why the other pilot didn't let him back in."

Yes, I went back and re-read this. Apparently there is nothing on the tape indicating why one of the pilots left the cockpit. That in itself is unusual. Surely one of the pilots didn't just stand up and walk out of the cockpit without a word. You'd certainly think the other pilot would at least ask where he was going.

I also noticed that the "military official" who initially leaked this info to the press described the earlier conversation between the two pilots as "smooth" and "cool". Perhaps it is a language thing, but these two word are not what I would immediately use to describe a conversation I heard. How about words like "normal" or "expected" or "friendly"? Does "cool" mean it sounded like they didn't like each other much? And what does "smooth" mean when describing communications between two people?

Whose military would be participating in listening to the audio tape? And what would their purpose be in leaking this to the press at this time? Who gains what in this info coming out sooner rather than later? Would pilot fault place the burden for the search and rescue/recovery costs to be borne by the airline rather than the French government? And who pays for these kinds of operations anyway?
--------------------------

What if it was the Captain who left the cockpit and it was the First Officer who was left in the cockpit? He was a rather new pilot with only 600+ hours of experience.

 

[SouthAussie]

An A320 pilot in this article says that European airlines are not required to have two people in the cockpit at all times. He also says there is a code to make the door open automatically after 30 seconds, if the door does not open then access is being intentionally denied by whoever is in the cockpit.


A pilot who flew the A320 for six years said the cockpit has safeguards in case one pilot inside becomes incapacitated while the other is outside. Normally, he said, someone trying to get inside the cockpit requests access and a camera feed lets the pilot decide whether to accept or specifically deny access.

If there is no response, a member of the flight crew can tap in an emergency code again requesting access. If there is still no response, the door opens automatically after another 30 seconds. If, however, the person in the cockpit denies access, the door remains locked, said the pilot. He spoke on condition of anonymity because he did not want to meddle in the investigation.

The pilot says airlines in Europe are not required to have two people in the cockpit at all times.

http://www.sfchronicle.com/news/wor...-Official-says-1-pilot-apparently-6159972.php


(Sorry if this has been mentioned before, going back to catch up on about 6 pages that I've missed.)

 

[SouthAussie]

Lufthansa says the co-pilot joined Germanwings in September 2013, directly after training, and had flown 630 hours.

The captain had more than 6,000 hours of flying time and been Germanwings pilot since May 2014, having previously flown for Lufthansa and Condor, Lufthansa said.

http://www.sfchronicle.com/news/wor...-Official-says-1-pilot-apparently-6159972.php



Neither of them have had a heavy flight schedule it seems. The co-pilot has averaged about 35 hours a month over his brief 18-month career, the captain has averaged about 50 hours a month over his 10 years of flying.

.

 

[emirates1957]

I only have to go when the seat belt sign is on Some crews will let you go, others will order you back to your seat. Very confusing

I think the confusing thing is crew not following standard procedures, when the seat belt sign is illuminated it will mean that there is potential turbulence ahead or you are in a sterile flight or non contact phase. Sometimes crew will forget to turn the seat belt sign off. I have seen pax trying to utilise the lav in severe turbulence, at the end of the day they take it upon themselves and risk danger. Crew members are under scrutiny you never know who is on your flight, there could be a member of a Civil Aviation organisation and if you do not follow procedures you can be out of a job. Next time you fly go for the crew who are adhering to your safety.

 

[SouthAussie]

The agency said the cockpit recording indicated that one of the pilot’s seats was pushed back and the door opened and closed. Knocking is then heard, said the source, adding “there was no more conversation from that point until the crash”.

The source said an alarm indicating the proximity to the ground could be heard before the moment of impact.

The Airbus A320 that ploughed into an Alpine mountain flew “right to the end”, the investigators said, and did not explode mid-flight. It also appeared not to have suffered a sudden drop in pressure.

“We have an audio file we can use,” said Rémi Jouty, the director of the BEA, at a press conference in Paris. The task of the investigators in the first instance is “a job … of understanding the sounds, the alarms, the voices, to attribute the voices to different people,” he added.

Jouty said it covered the entire flight but would not say what conversations, if any, between the pilots had been captured on the recording, nor what language they had been conducted in.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...s-planes-cockpit-4u9525-claims-new-york-times

 

[Sonya610]

It was a pretty big gamble for one to assume that the other would head out of the deck at all during the flight. What was the "plan" I wonder to assure that one would even be able to take control of the aircraft during that particular flight? I suppose one could have sent the other out to check on something or retrieve something.. Random thoughts of a racing mind.

Not a gamble if you squirt a little visene or ipecac in their coffee/water.

The majority are waiting for my information to be revealed. Working with what is out their at the moment their thoughts would be Pilot suicide. Our ex ATC guy said that it was a controlled descent.

If this was an intentional act then it would most certainly be considered mass murder/terrorism, the suicide aspect was incidental.

If that is in fact the case they had best release the pilot's name and come up with a VERY good explanation. I have not followed this case closely so forgive the question but the Senior pilot was locked out, correct?

 

[SouthAussie]

FBI agents based in France, Germany and Spain are looking through intelligence sources and cross referencing the passenger manifest of Germanwings Flight 9525, two senior law enforcement officials said. So far, their search hasn't turned up anything that "stands out" or anything linking the passengers to criminal activity, according to one official.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/25/europe/germanwings-crash-main/


None of the family members were permitted access on the mountain, locally known as the Massif des Trois Eveches. which is largely inaccessible except by helicopter. There is a 10km exclusion zone, protected by hundreds of police, surrounding the site.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...emains-a-mystery/story-e6frg6so-1227278913718

 

[Sonya610]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...s-planes-cockpit-4u9525-claims-new-york-times

From your article....sounds like Emirates is correct about this being an intentional act:

"The Airbus A320 plane is designed with safeguards to allow emergency entry to the cockpit if a pilot inside is unresponsive, but the override code known to the crew does not go into effect and indeed goes into a five-minute lockdown if the person inside the cockpit specifically denies entry, according to an Airbus training video and a pilot who spoke to the Associated Press."

 

[jslk]

Presser due any minute from the French prosecutor based in Marseille.

 

[jslk]

The German prosecutor has confirmed that only one pilot was in the cockpit during the crash.

I'm following BBC world news on the TV.

 

[emirates1957]

From your article....sounds like Emirates is correct about this being an intentional act:

"The Airbus A320 plane is designed with safeguards to allow emergency entry to the cockpit if a pilot inside is unresponsive, but the override code known to the crew does not go into effect and indeed goes into a five-minute lockdown if the person inside the cockpit specifically denies entry, according to an Airbus training video and a pilot who spoke to the Associated Press."

Please elaborate Sonya.

 

[jslk]

Identification of bodies has commenced. Only one black box has been recovered(cvr).

 

[jslk]

The cvr has last 30 mins of the flight.

 

[jslk]

PILOT asks CO PILOT to take control. Co pilot manipulated controls to effect descent of plane.