Germanwings Airbus crash 24 March #1

[JanetElaine]

The all-important data recorder info is what's greatly needed as that will definitively reveal the various actions taken in the cockpit, at what time, in what sequence, and will answer many (but not all) questions.

Attention will likely turn to a conversation on how can airlines best check the emotional wellness of any crew member, especially pilots? The once-a-year psychological exam is not enough. And what measures can be taken, if any, to prevent a pilot from sabatoging his/her own flight that doesn't exist today?

I agree. Only the black box and CVR will possibly, hopefully, bring actual clarity to what actually happened. The black box seems a goner without the memory card but the CVR has given good info... I'm sure there is a lot more on there that we don't yet know about. I don't think it's going to be pretty. I think I said way back in the beginning of this thread that I thought it looked like someone either could not, or would not save this plane... which may turn out to be an understatement.

 

[JanetElaine]

Question: A govt employee's identity has been released, as well as her daughter's identity. Why isn't the third American's identity being released yet? Is it possible that maybe their family hasn't been reached yet?

bbm

Could be. I read a bit ago there are 27 or 23 victims where they haven't been able to reach next of kin yet.

 

[Madeleine74]

Well, that's not what I said. We just take facts and speculate about what could have happened within those facts. I don't recall anyone here floating a theory that the plane may have collided mid-air with a 20 foot unicorn. That would be fantasy. It appears you don't even like people speculating about what may have happened to cause a pilot to be locked out of the cockpit (which is currently considered to be a fact). But I'm only assuming that, so I'm sure I'm wrong.

No I took issue with all the armchair experts who announced early and often that it was this part icing up or that part falling off or the plane exploded midair and were insistent those were the factors that caused the crash when they had no stinking idea, had no information other than "plane crashed into alps," and are not part of the investigation. In other words, they had no facts other than the most cursory, "plane crashed."

 

[Zuri]

For those of you who are up on International/European politics:
Are France, Germany and Spain weighing in on anything significant affecting another country like Iran? Or another country? France was targeted in the Charlie Hebdo attack, Spain had the train bombings March 11, 2004, Germany?

It just seems like it is significant that these three countries were affected (among others) in some manner. Sorry if I am not making sense. Hopefully you get the jist

 

[GinaSeikwa]

I recall the pilot a couple years ago that flipped out before or during or after flight and had to be strapped to a chair to be removed from plane.I would imagine there are protocols for detecting mental illness in pilots bevcause of such a high stress job and the hours.

Actually not really. It would mostly have to be self reported. This is an incident that occurred a few years back from my neck of the woods:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...--crying-swearing-And-demanding-talk-God.html

 

[panthera]

This is just chilling. I keep reading that Times report -- “The guy outside is knocking lightly on the door and there is no answer. And then he hits the door stronger and no answer. There is never an answer.”

There is never an answer. Ten-plus minutes and never an answer, going down.

It is haunting, and quite troubling. Hopefully there will be some answers as to which pilot had exited and was trying to reenter the cockpit, and what protocol the airline has for when one of the crew members leaves the cockpit, i.e. locking the door, or another crew member entering in case of emergency. Being this is a subsidiary of Lufthansa, I would expect the crew is normally not at all negligent.
MOO

 

[Madeleine74]

It couldn't be a passenger banging on the cockpit door as no crew member would ever allow such a thing to occur and it makes no sense that one of the pilots left the cockpit (likely to use the restroom) but that a passenger would spend 8 min or so banging on the cockpit door. The only people allowed near that cockpit door are the pilots and crew. Allegedly the voice recorder has picked up the sounds and voices that positively identify who was the one banging on the cockpit door, so they know which pilot was still in the cockpit.

The airline has to confront how to prevent such a thing in the future, if such prevention is even possible.

 

[LietKynes]

This just keeps getting worse .
As if the deaths of all of those precious lives wasn't bad enough.
Personally I'd like to think the other pilot still in the cockpit had a heart attack or something, but wouldn't the door be unlocked in that case ?
Sorry just jumping in here and do not know if that was discussed already.

It's going to be fathoms worse if this was deliberate.... for the families and friends of the victims, that is. My god.

:moo:

 

[Zuri]

up till the last hour I was one of em!!! numbing

and they are now trying to mke this a medical issue sorry , mystery solved , he left the cockpit, the dude had a plan, and executed it

there is no reason why 36 hours in they have not released their names or any family history married smile all is well it all fits - they heard the voice recorder and are now trying to slowly "ease" the world into what really happened-

what are the odd, fight crew leaves to piss, the other dude has a masssive heart attack, and the plane crashes killing 149

this was Silk AIr

You expressed the horror dawning on all of us really well. ITA they are slowly letting the rest of the world come to grips with what more than likely happened. I certainly didn't expect this, if the other pilot truly and purposefully put that plane into the mountain..

 

[Jersey*Girl]

bbm

Could be. I read a bit ago there are 27 or 23 victims where they haven't been able to reach next of kin yet.

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-france-airline-crash-20150325-story.html#page=1

The State Department identified two of the Americans who died as Yvonne and Emily Selke, a mother and daughter from Nokesville, Va., and said it was in touch with the family of the third American, who was not identified.

“We are continuing to review our records to determine whether any other U.S. citizens might have been on board the flight,” the department said in a statement.

 

[JanetElaine]

It couldn't be a passenger banging on the cockpit door as no crew member would ever allow such a thing to occur and it makes no sense that one of the pilots left the cockpit (likely to use the restroom) but that a passenger would spend 8 min or so banging on the cockpit door. The only people allowed near that cockpit door are the pilots and crew. Allegedly the voice recorder has picked up the sounds and voices that positively identify who was the one banging on the cockpit door, so they know which pilot was still in the cockpit.

The airline has to confront how to prevent such a thing in the future, if such prevention is even possible.

I wonder though, if the pilot was banging on the door for 8 minutes (more likely less than that though), was there anyone trying to help him? I know the doors are narrow, but you'd imagine kind of a mass-effort to try and bust that door down. Passengers had to have noticed him banging on the door. What was going on that nobody came up to help him? Or did they, and it just hasn't been released/revealed?

 

[Madeleine74]

We only know what's been said so far in MSM articles and the NYT is the one who broke the story. No idea if others tried to help the co/pilot who was locked out. More details will likely emerge as time goes on. But my comment was specifically about it being suggested that maybe (and only) a passenger was banging on the cockpit door and I was saying that no passenger (alone) would be allowed to do that and any crew near them would be pulling that passenger away IF a passenger did that.

That does not take into account one of the pilots who is trying to get back in and can't and needs assistance from others. Different scenario.

 

[GinaSeikwa]

I guess Airbus 300 series pilots don't need to boycott their airplanes anymore since this particular accident does not appear to be a result of mechanical failure.

In this case perhaps not due to poorly addressed mechanical issues but maybe still a need to boycott due to poorly addressed human issues. I can't speak for Germanwings per se but there is an ever increasing demand for crew scheduling optimization that sometimes forgets that crews are humans and not robots. Some schedules are absolutely brutal and can literally make people sick in the long run. Don't know what the pilots for GW have in place as far as duty day limitations, reserve/on call days or crew rest between flights etc. but this could absolutely have been a factor that contributed to certain mental health issues. I believe you mentioned earlier that this incident if true would hopefully improve the way airlines deal with psychological issues amongst their pilots. I agree and if true than a whole plethora of other contributing issues should be looked at as well.

 

[Madeleine74]

In this case perhaps not due to poorly addressed mechanical issues but maybe still a need to boycott due to poorly addressed human issues. I can't speak for Germanwings per se but there is an ever increasing demand for crew scheduling optimization that sometimes forgets that crews are humans and not robots.

Allegedly it wasn't only Germanwings pilots who were boycotting Airbus flights but other airlines' pilots as well. The boycott was about fears the Airbus 300 series might have a serious mechanical problem not being addressed.

 

[emirates1957]

I have just come back to the office to hear the latest news.....sorry if this has been discussed do we have any background on the CAPT religion ??

 

[restarea]

Is anyone else watching CNN? For one minute, I actually liked Richard Quest when they were discussing whether it was security breach to talk about the lock. There are photos and videos of the locks online, the cats already outta the bag on that one.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/world/europe/germanwings-airbus-crash.html?smid=tw-bna&_r=0

Germanwings Pilot Was Locked Out of Cockpit Before Crash in France
By NICOLA CLARK and DAN BILEFSKYMARCH 25, 2015

PARIS — As officials struggled Wednesday to explain why a jet with 150 people on board crashed in relatively clear skies, an investigator said evidence from a cockpit voice recorder indicated one pilot left the cockpit before the plane’s descent and was unable to get back in.

A senior military official involved in the investigation described “very smooth, very cool” conversation between the pilots during the early part of the flight from Barcelona to Düsseldorf. Then the audio indicated that one of the pilots left the cockpit and could not re-enter.

“The guy outside is knocking lightly on the door and there is no answer,” the investigator said. “And then he hits the door stronger and no answer. There is never an answer.”

He said, “You can hear he is trying to smash the door down.”

While the audio seemed to give some insight into the circumstances leading up to the Germanwings crash on Tuesday morning, it also left many questions unanswered.

"We don’t know yet the reason why one of the guys went out,” said the official, who requested anonymity because the investigation is continuing. “But what is sure is that at the very end of the flight, the other pilot is a

 

[JanetElaine]

I'm sure more details will emerge as time goes on... they always do... lol.

I would find it rather strange if nobody had helped. I guess there is a chance that the passengers actually did not know that the pilot was banging on the door. Not even going to guesstimate at the likeliness of that, but if you look at the plane map from Seatguru at http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Germanwings/Germanwings_Airbus_A320.php you can see there is a galley and restrooms in between the cockpit and passenger seating. There are usually curtains in that area that would (could) obstruct the view, and I'm unsure how loud the noise would actually be. I don't think it would have traveled very far down the plane. I guess it could be possible that it went largely unnoticed by the passengers.

 

[Madeleine74]

I'm unsure how loud the noise would actually be. I don't think it would have traveled very far down the plane. I guess it could be possible that it went largely unnoticed by the passengers.

I bet at least several passengers saw and heard and possibly many more knew something was very wrong. It would be strange if no one else tried to assist the copilot.

 

[emirates1957]

Do the pilots still come out of the cabin after reaching cruising altitude and walk the isle and talk to the passengers, that's what I remember, it's been years since I've flown. I thought of that in relationship to the time the no contact with ground control. Maybe then the one that stayed did the lock out knowing it would only be minutes.

I'm not too sure what their procedure is as to how much time they are aloud to spend in the cabin. It maybe that the Pilot popped out to use the lavatory. Our crew are not aloud to attend to pax in the cabin nor interact with anybody that is being problematic, they can use the lav and that's it.