Germanwings Airbus crash 24 March #1

[Dr. Know?]

I have just come back to the office to hear the latest news.....sorry if this has been discussed do we have any background on the CAPT religion ??

There's some tweets out there but "it's only speculation" at this time.

 

[GinaSeikwa]

I'm pretty sure that others including passengers did help. I'm sure there was a small army banging desperately on that door to get it open. It was daylight and they could clearly see what was occurring outside and what kind of terrain they were in. Horrible.

 

[emirates1957]

If indeed it was a terrorist act, I would have thought the terrorist group would have taken credit by now. Now I am wondering if this was pilot suicide, a medical event or something else untoward.

On these short flights, does a Flight Engineer fly with the pilot and co-pilot? Also, the airline has only mentioned one pilot, having 10 years experience and 6000 hours of flight time on the A320. I have seen no mention of the other pilot. Anyone?

That's a negative Zuri - no FE, only CAPT and F/O.

 

[panthera]

I have just come back to the office to hear the latest news.....sorry if this has been discussed do we have any background on the CAPT religion ??

Listening to CNN, I haven't even heard either pilot or co-pilot being referred to by name, only their experience and that they were pilots of Lufthansa.

MOO

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I am being preventive from a time out! I just my Lunesta. BUt this is way to bright a group , most heart attacks have precursors ( sweating, feeling light headed etc). If iwas a pilot and started to feel stuff, the last thing I would do is , when my colleague leaves upon hitting cruise, is lock him out. Lets even go macho, I would still leave it, if not feeling right, that my colleague could get back in.

I suppose an annurism might work, but all along , the names of pilots were not issued, as a aircraft crash interested human since I wa 13 , that is odd. I do not know if I am going terroirsm, I am going sucide, I do not know why tho.

buT the media is being (Lunesta time) obserd, now trying to come up with all these reasons why the stars ligned up with the norht pole and the sunshine was in the lunar place, and the individual that left the cockpit, and was then locked out is just IMO obserd.

ANd it just fits the last 8 minutes, he did not want attention, so he gently smashed the jetliner into the concrete. We have no information about the pilots bodeies, the bodies are obliterated - especially in the front of the nose at impact.

We are being "gently" manipulated IMO, giving the world chance to absorb, the horrifying realities, of what has accidently been revealed. Heart attacks are very rarely truly sudden there are warning signs

in the last 90 minutes , it has moved from the media not wanting to explore this, and going into side roads.

From day one, a ten year pilot with 6000 hours in type is very low EMERIATES ask about the tenure and number of hours in type is very low

10 year tenred, would have a lot more than 6000 hours in that type- it is usually done in breakdown mode, 10 year vetern, 6000 in A320, 587 hours in 727, etc

10 years - 6000 hours from the beginning sounded very off....................................to little flight time , in a decade in type

Hi CARIIS. Just saw this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/world/europe/germanwings-airbus-crash.html?smid=tw-bna&_r=0

Lufthansa, the parent company of Germanwings, has characterized the crash as an accident. The airline has not disclosed the identities of the pilots, except to say that the captain was a 10-year veteran with more than 6,000 hours of flying time in A320s.

 

[emirates1957]

Was thinking the same sort of thing.

Easily fixed with many options.

1-have a 12 inch thick solid steel welded to floor combination lock safe outside the cockpit door and only the pilots know the combination to get the single key to the cockpit door.

2-Have a portable toilet (a pail) in the cockpit so the pilots NEVER have to leave the cockpit.
If pilot has to do #2, sure it may smell a little but it is very rare for #2 for pilots and would rather have them deal with the smell than what just happened.

3 - Have a policy where Pilots can NEVER break protocol and leave just 1 in cockpit. If 1 has to leave, demand a stewardess replaces him in cockpit.


There are probably many other good ideas. We cannot let this happen. Wondering why 15 volunteer passengers could not have rammed that door open. Maybe 8 minutes is not enough time. maybe they were close to getting through.

This is horrifying to think what happened. OMG.

Our procedure is - let's say crew member needs to use the lav - the F/A must enter the F/D shut the door and have the port hole cocked so we can still see the cabin. Once one Pilot leaves the F/D - safety has just decreased by 50%.

 

[JanetElaine]

I'm pretty sure that others including passengers did help. I'm sure there was a small army banging desperately on that door to get it open. It was daylight and they could clearly see what was occurring outside and what kind of terrain they were in. Horrible.

I would find it very strange if passengers did not try and help the locked-out pilot. But, strange things have happened, and if you look at the seat map, all passengers are behind a bulkhead, with the entry and then restrooms/galley by the cockpit. A strategically placed flight attendant could deflect attention. Like I said, not going to even guess on the likelihood of that, because IMO it isn't very likely that happened.

Anyway, the reason I quoted GinaSeikwa's post is it reminded me of something I wanted to find out - does anyone know the altitude of the cloud cover that day? There were clouds, just lower than 38000 ft (so they didn't play a role in the plane's descent). Does anyone know what altitude the clouds were?

 

[cuffem]

I'm sure more details will emerge as time goes on... they always do... lol.

I would find it rather strange if nobody had helped. I guess there is a chance that the passengers actually did not know that the pilot was banging on the door. Not even going to guesstimate at the likeliness of that, but if you look at the plane map from Seatguru at http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Germanwings/Germanwings_Airbus_A320.php you can see there is a galley and restrooms in between the cockpit and passenger seating. There are usually curtains in that area that would (could) obstruct the view, and I'm unsure how loud the noise would actually be. I don't think it would have traveled very far down the plane. I guess it could be possible that it went largely unnoticed by the passengers.

I am thinking a morning meal was starting to be served with them reaching cruising speed.

 

[emirates1957]

Believe me I know airplanes. I am crew myself- back end. I always try to stay objective in these scenarios and see where the evidence leads. I had a few thoughts earlier one being a possible slow depressurization and loss of consciousness. This evidence now however is leading to a DELIBERATE act. Not a medical incapacitation, not a slow decompression which perhaps could lead to delayed reaction and impairment. If the locked out pilot had the strength and acuity to pound on that door for an extended amount of time he was not being affected by hypoxia so neither was the pilot flying IMO.

Couldn't agree with you more.

 

[Zuri]

Emirates57, what is the theory of you and your aviation counterparts?

 

[panthera]

I'm pretty sure that others including passengers did help. I'm sure there was a small army banging desperately on that door to get it open. It was daylight and they could clearly see what was occurring outside and what kind of terrain they were in. Horrible.

That is the most horrible part of this tragedy...that the passengers and other crew members most likely knew exactly what was occurring and were totally helpless to do anything for what may have seemed an eternity.

Just praying somehow there will be an answer to exactly what happened.



MOO

 

[Dr. Know?]

I've read on a pilot forum that the standard protocol for one pilot to leave the cockpit, the one remaining puts his oxygen mask on? Also saw it on twitter.

The pilot forum was mentioning it has happened that the O2 was bad.

Emirates57 or Gina set me straight. tia

 

[Plumeria5]

Our procedure is - let's say crew member needs to use the lav - the F/A must enter the F/D shut the door and have the port hole cocked so we can still see the cabin. Once one Pilot leaves the F/D - safety has just decreased by 50%.

Just wondering...Why don't pilots have their own bathroom inside the cockpit?

 

[Brightbird]

What is the rationale for one pilot to be able to lock the other one out? It seems crazy that both pilots can't override a locked cockpit. I mean, is it really possible that a Captain could be locked out with no way of getting back in?

 

[AlwaysShocked]

In the interest of clarity, in the Egyptian Air Flight 900 incident the co-pilot did not lock the door of the cockpit. The pilot who had left to visit the bathroom returned to the cockpit during the descent, asking "What's happening? What's happening?" and even tried to get the co-pilot to help him with the controls, saying "Pull with me. Pull it!"

It did not help and the plane crashed into water 200 ft. deep off Nantucket. Using U.S. Navy and Coastguard vessels and equipment, a great deal of the wreckage was recovered. Enough for the NTSB to rule out mechanical defect as a cause. The Egyptian government, despite having requested NTSB to lead the investigation, was unhappy about the NTSB conclusions. They then conducted their own review of the evidence and reached their own conclusion - that it was an accident caused by a mechanical defect.

-------------------

Nobody is going to want this to be a deliberate act. Nobody. But if that is what it is, it needs to be acknowledged promptly. Not years from now. And if this was deliberate, denial is not going to help anything.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

In the interest of clarity, in the Egyptian Air Flight 900 incident the co-pilot did not lock the door of the cockpit. The pilot who had left to visit the bathroom returned to the cockpit during the descent, asking "What's happening? What's happening?" and even tried to get the co-pilot to help him with the controls, saying "Pull with me. Pull it!"

It did not help and the plane crashed into water 200 ft. deep off Nantucket. Using U.S. Navy and Coastguard vessels and equipment, a great deal of the wreckage was recovered. Enough for the NTSB to rule out mechanical defect as a cause. The Egyptian government, despite having requested NTSB to leas the investigation, was unhappy about the NTSB conclusions. They then conducted their own review of the evidence and reached their own conclusion - that it was an accident caused by a mechanical defect.

-------------------

Nobody is going to want this to be a deliberate act. Nobody. But if that is what it is, it needs to be acknowledged promptly. Not years from now. And if this was deliberate, denial is not going to help anything.

 

[watcher9]

I wonder if the two pilots have ever flown together before?
Are pilots assigned by the airlines in some sort of order or is it a pick and choose which flight they want and who they want to fly with?

 

[jjenny]

Just wondering...Why don't pilots have their own bathroom inside the cockpit?

Where is the room for it?

 

[Plumeria5]

Where is the room for it?

There is room for it outside the cockpit. Why not have the wall on the other side and include it as part of the cockpit?

 

[emirates1957]

Emirates57, what is the theory of you and your aviation counterparts?

The majority are waiting on more information to be uncovered. So that being said with what they have at the moment would reflect Pilot suicide. Our ex ATC guy mentioned that it was a controlled descent.