Germanwings Airbus crash 24 March #1

[Madeleine74]

A specific entry of a code of numbers was mentioned as being heard on the CVR to begin the descent, and that's one way they knew it was an intentional act.

 

[Trident]

And you can bet they will. Right now they are in damage control mode.

This is going to affect attitudes toward commercial aviation. My God, we not only need to worry about armed terrorists but also about suicidal pilots? Sorry to say, maybe there needs to be someone assigned to cockpits to watch the crew!

Just like Marines are/were put aboard Navy ships to keep the crew from mutiny.

 

[zwiebel]

Welcome darkling. Didn't notice you were new.

*Just heard on radio Lubitz also owned or rented an apartment in Dusseldorf. Maybe there is more likely to be a clue to his motives there, rather than at his family's home, where he also lived?

 

[mysteriew]

What causes mass murder?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/shadow-boxing/201207/mass-murder-motives

http://www.popularsocialscience.com/2013/01/04/why-do-people-commit-mass-shootings/

 

[Zuri]

This may have been asked and answered so forgive me:

Was the flight plan filed to fly over the Alps? I keep seeing the maps with a straight line from Barcelona to Düsseldorf. There was mention that the plane deviated to the East, without permission? The controlled descent, the rumor that the co-pilot was on his cell phone prior to the flight, the locked door: all of this makes me wonder if the co-pilot had this planned out ahead of time and this was not a spur of the moment decision. Or was it?

Given the age of the co-pilot, I wonder if his suicide was because of a break up with a girl or guy. Whatever his reasoning, it was so incredibly selfish, it is beyond comprehension. IMO

 

[Dogface]

"The British baby who was the youngest victim of the Alps plane crash has been pictured for the first time - being cuddled by his mother who also died in the tragedy.

Little Julian Pracz-Bandres, who was just seven months old, was flying back from Spain with his mother, Marina Bandres, when the disaster unfolded.

A photo released by Ms Bandres's family in Spain shows her smiling with joy as she clutches her young son to her cheek.

Blue-eyed Julian, who shows the first signs of hair growing from his head, is wearing a turquoise baby grow in the photo.

View attachment 71708

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-4U-9525-s-youngest-victim.html#ixzz3VV3XWYrn

R.I.P Little angel and his mum

This just crushes my heart. All the lives lost are a tragedy, but the innocence of a child, who has yet to live their life, being possibly extinguished in possibly such a senseless, completely ruthless manner is beyond my comprehension. I want to kick my feet and scream "it isn't fair".

I am trying to convince myself this was all an accident with nothing nefarious happening. I don't want to believe a seemingly normal person could do something this awful.

 

[KALI]

I pray that the passengers did not know what was happening until the last minute, but i find that a bit difficult to believe.
I'm sure there will be lawsuits, and that information will be rigorously investigated by the lawyers for the victim's families.

This is just terrible. Mass murder. Wow.

 

[Bravo]

IMO this had to be planned. The Co-Pilot had no way of ensuring the Pilot would exit on such a short flight.
ETA-meaning he waited for the first opportunity. I cant see a Co-Pilot asking hey go grab me a coffee

 

[Lyra500]

Thing is, do we KNOW that? I don't know that, I don't know much of anything except what I'm being "told" on TV.

I just got here after listening to this all morning on the news. I have a LOT of questions, but a break isn't something "I" need right now. I've ridden these airbuses, and may do so in the future. Yeah, I have a LOT of questions.

Well his name is German and there is a photo of a brown haired guy sitting by the Golden Gate bridge who is allegedly Andreas . He looks like an average youngish Caucasian guy.

Are you suggesting that the investigators, main stream print media and TV stations across the world are lying about his name and posting fake photos to cover up some evil dark skinned Muslim?

I think this story is sad an terrible enough without wild conspiracy allegations about being 'told' stuff.

At the moment it looks like a Caucasian German guy did this - he may be a Muslim convert, but he certainly isn't non-white.

 

[cuffem]

This may have been asked and answered so forgive me:

Was the flight plan filed to fly over the Alps? I keep seeing the maps with a straight line from Barcelona to Düsseldorf. There was mention that the plane deviated to the East, without permission? The controlled descent, the rumor that the co-pilot was on his cell phone prior to the flight, the locked door: all of this makes me wonder if the co-pilot had this planned out ahead of time and this was not a spur of the moment decision. Or was it?

Given the age of the co-pilot, I wonder if his suicide was because of a break up with a girl or guy. Whatever his reasoning, it was so incredibly selfish, it is beyond comprehension. IMO

That was the previous flight.

 

[Lyra500]

IMO, if he wanted it to look like an accident, then it was done out of illness or very personal reasons, not to revenge the company

To murder all of those innocent people... hard to deal with that

He had to have known he'd be found out in the end, he could not alter the cockpit recorder.

Sociopaths seldom think about anyone but themselves.

Why would he care about making it look like an accident?

 

[CARIIS]

I don't think so. I heard discussion yesterday about Lufthansa and Germanwing. The Germanwings pilots are Luftansa pilots, make the same salary.

There is huge disparity in pay ! All airlines the last two decades have done this. Delta did Com AIr, , United did United Express, Northwest spun one off, Contintental did COntintental Express. The reason why they have all done it is they bring on new young hires, pay them a lot less, and use the spin offs to drive traffic to their hubs where they then cross everyone over to thier main line! It has , in every instance, caused huge labor issues. There are only X amount of passenger wanting to go from A to B. So if you are creating smaller, cheaper, options traffic goes there. Then the mainline carrier has reduce its frequencies on the secondary markets used to feed the hubs.

Luth was def using German WIngs to do just that.

[TABLE="width: 265, align: left"]
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[TD]Germanwings is currently taking over all Lufthansa direct services outside the hubs FRA en MUC. Routes from HAM are already integrated, BER is being integrated the next months, and DUS is planned to be integrated in spring 2014. In total 30 aircraft of LH are being transferred to Germanwings AOC. The new Germanwings remains part of the Lufthansa seniority list (LH Passage, Germanwings and LH Cargo) and therefore new FO positions are filled in by students from LH Flight School first. New CPT positions according the Lufthansa (KTV) seniority list. In addition, Eurowings (LH-feeder) will join Germanwings as well, but with their own AOC and their own fleet (23x CRJ900) and pilots that have no connection with the LH-seniority list. [/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

This is horrible for the pilots. Senority determines everything for these folks. So basically a GermanWIngs pilot starts, and his senority number is like 15,245. On the other hand if a young pilot started with like Jet Blue, his senority number is 4125. Blurring the senority lists when the spin off is awful for these young folks the opportunities for advancment are basically nill. In addition these spin offs do lots of point A to B segments. Much harder, they can do 5-6 takeoffs and landings a day, whereas a pilot with senority at the main line, gets the great paying long haul, 4 day layovers in awesome locations!

Flight pay: $79-86 an hour (THey are only paid for hours GermanWIngs
compare
FO base 64600 LUthansa - salary plus bonus
Average annual pay for Lufthansa pilots is €180,000, and experienced pilots can easily earn more than €200,000, or about $275,000 a year

http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs/Lufthansa_German_Airlines

https://www.google.com/#q=lufthansa pilot salary

Same dance for cabin crew. 5 takeoff landings a day, shelping luggage into the bins, cleaning the cabin 5 times a day, on a narrow body 20 year aircraft, compared to a 19 hour flight on a georgeous brand new wide body, needing only to serve two times as oppossed to pushing carts up and down the isle 5 different times a day, collecting the trash, stuck on the ground 5 times a day, delays at stops along the way . Working for the spin offs is like being a dental assistant compared to an internationally know dentitist! Do not ask me where that anolgy came from HA!


ANd hey if it is accurate that they were giving him 7 hours of work a week, I think it might be safe to conclude that he is not a happy employee!

Just my thoughts only !!

 

[mysteriew]

I haven't heard that about a deviation from the flight path to fly over the Alps.
Could someone bring me up to date on that?

 

[cuffem]

I haven't heard that about a deviation from the flight path to fly over the Alps.
Could someone bring me up to date on that?

I heard on CNN it was a normal flight path.I think that was misinformation in the beggining.

 

[Trident]

Well his name is German and there is a photo of a brown haired guy sitting by the Golden Gate bridge who is allegedly Andreas . He looks like an average youngish Caucasian guy.

Are you suggesting that the investigators, main stream print media and TV stations across the world are lying about his name and posting fake photos to cover up some evil dark skinned Muslim?

I think this story is sad an terrible enough without wild conspiracy allegations about being 'told' stuff.

At the moment it looks like a Caucasian German guy did this - he may be a Muslim convert, but he certainly isn't non-white.

You are absolutely right, and I totally agree with what you have posted. However, "I" saw no pictures, although his name was totally German. I did wonder, however, why someone made it "sound" as if being German made the whole thing understandable.

I do believe this man was either schizophrenic, or a terrorist. To me, who has at various times comtemplated offing myself, suicide by a plane filled with innocents is out of the question. It did cross my mind he passed out and accidently hit the "descend" button, BUT, locking the pilot out invalidated that line of thought. There are a LOT of "ifs" here, and I don't believe we should shove them under the rug. We have had many air crashes, etc/disappearances, and we cannot rule out anything.

As for the reference to "conspiracy" theories, well, that's a good BUZZ word, although the truth is, there are many things we don't know and who conspired to do them. Believe me, you do not want a list.

 

[Intermezzo]

I pray that the passengers did not know what was happening until the last minute, but i find that a bit difficult to believe.
I'm sure there will be lawsuits, and that information will be rigorously investigated by the lawyers for the victim's families.

This is just terrible. Mass murder. Wow.

Unfortunately from the accounts it seems that passengers did realize something was wrong.. it has been reported that screaming passengers could be heard in the background on the audio in the Voice Data Recorder

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/german...-plane-into-descent-prosecutor-says-1.3010045

 

[cuffem]

It seems like a risky flight path to take over the alps and not closer to the previous outbound flight.Wouldnt you want to be able to access alternate airports?

 

[Dushi]

Why would he care about making it look like an accident?

I don't know
It was suggested up thread

 

[chlban]

IMO, if he wanted it to look like an accident, then it was done out of illness or very personal reasons, not to revenge the company

To murder all of those innocent people... hard to deal with that

I don't see what makes anyone think he cared if it looked like an accident. As a co-pilot, he would certainly know about the black box. I know about it and I don't even like to fly.

My guess would be he didn't care since he knew he'd be dead. I think generally when someone tries to make something look like an accident they are covering up a crime they don't want to be caught for. If you are already killing yourself, and taking all those innocents with you, I don't see why you would care.

I am someone that can actually understand suicide in some cases. I think I were diagnosed with a debilitating illness it is something I would certainly consider. However, I do not and will never understand taking innocent people with you. That is horrid. Make whatever choices you need to for your own life, but not for others.

 

[Dr. Know?]

9m ago15:26

A Spiegel reporter, Matthias Gebauer, is tweeting that friends of Lubitz said he had burnout or depression in 2009 and had to take time out from his pilot training. During the Lufthansa press conference there were questions as to why Lubitz interrupted his training, but there were no definitive answers.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...tigation-press-conference-live-updates-4u9525