Germany/Portugal - Christian Brueckner, 27 @ time of 1st crime (2004), charged with sexual assault crimes, Praia de Rocha, Portugal. #5

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  • #881
@Davieson is not insisting anything or making any demands on anyone else to agree with him. He's just expressing his opinion based on the information we have re the evidence the prosecution claims to have. And most particularly when this trial has highlighted the prosecution's shortcomings in terms of bringing a case to fruition.

Why is someone expressing an opinion so triggering? Why the need to discount that opinion when we're all at the mercy of the same lack of information? It seems so reductive in terms of reasonable onward discussion.
Insist in "double quote marks", as I've already indicated above and posts proceeded.
Nothing triggering. Not discounting any opinion. Nothing to get upset or dilute discussion.

In this thread, I'm skeptical in relation to the appeal but let's see. IMO BKA would have to bring another "minor" case to have more time for MM case or strengthen it (quickly) somehow (I see it difficult, very difficult, but maybe not fully impossible).
 
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  • #882
CB will be in prison until September 2025, almost another year. If prosecutors aren't able to lay charges in regard to MM by then, I expect they never will be.
 
  • #883
@Davieson is not insisting anything or making any demands on anyone else to agree with him. He's just expressing his opinion based on the information we have re the evidence the prosecution claims to have. And most particularly when this recent trial has highlighted the prosecution's many shortcomings in terms of bringing a case to fruition.

Why is someone expressing an opinion so triggering? Why the need to discount that opinion when we're all at the mercy of the same lack of information? It seems so reductive in terms of reasonable onward discussion.

HCW and co need to sh*it or get off the pot. That's where attention that claims to be coming from a concerned place needs to be directed at, not at other posters who happen to have opinions that don't sit or fit with a 'CB must be guilty' narrative.
Perhaps you are being a little hard on the prosecution.

We simply do not know why the Policia Judiciaria did not prosecute CB when they had him in custody after his wanderlust led him to an out of sight location in a children's playpark in 2017.
My supposition is that law enforcement of both countries, Germany and Portugal prioritised and Germany was allowed to sort out the European Arrest Warrant for drug charges and sexual abuse of a minor in 2013.
Thomas Klinge, the Chief Prosecutor in Hanover, said last night: ‘I can confirm that there was the child abuse case. Christian B was sentenced in 2017 for one year and three months.’
Then the BKA having discovered evidence of DM horrific rape, brought him to trial for that.

So the prosecutors having cleaned up that cess pit of criminal offending set about trying to clear the decks of other cases they had come across or did not know about. For this to be successful it had to have been in co-operation with the Portuguese.
And here we are in 2024!

The German prosecutors have left no stone unturned collecting evidence and in doing so gave victims of crime a chance of justice and as in DM's case that work kept a very dangerous perpetrator off the streets, doing their job of keeping the public safe for seven years.
  • in 2004 in Praia da Rocha in 2004.
  • in 2007 sexual abuse of a 10-year-old German girl on a beach in Salema. He actually put his hand on that little girl who fortunately was not on her own, an alarm was raised and naked he ran off.
  • in 2017 CB was in a playground in Bartolomeu de Messines naked from the waste down.

Why do you think it feasible that the forces of law and order should keep up a running commentary in the public domain about active investigations.

It isn't normal police procedure unless requesting public help to assist in an investigation.
 
  • #884
CB will be in prison until September 2025, almost another year. If prosecutors aren't able to lay charges in regard to MM by then, I expect they never will be.
In 11 months what did not arrive in more than 4 years?! I see now even more difficult with CB acquitted and being released next year. And there is also the time pressure factor that has tightened. Hope they can get something more.
 
  • #885
Such is the reliance on the perception of judges regarding the 'body language' of witnesses that it would be a bit remiss for judges not to give the situation the most serious consideration.
The judge was not there but the witness was and aggressive questioning is not the way to arrive at the truth of the matter; indeed it could be counter-productive.
The judge sets the tone and U E did just that with a vengeance; which we are told is unusual, the chief prosecutor indicating that he had never seen the like in twenty years.

Snip
The judge decides whether the witness is credible and whether his testimony is credible. However, it is difficult for a judge to tell when a witness is telling the truth and when he is lying.

Why is the lie not recognized?

Does the mistake begin in legal education? How are future judges prepared? During your studies, you work on a completely clarified fact, and witnesses are questioned a few times during the legal preparatory service?

No wonder that a judge cannot correctly evaluate the behaviour of the witness and the nature of the testimony. Are witness statements wrongly assessed?

Even if the witnesses do not lie intentionally, human memory cannot be relied on one hundred percent. Is a crime reliably reconstructed? Much depends on concentrating on the course of action. Memory gaps arise, various details are omitted. The judge is thus given a distorted picture of the decisive events.

The ability to perceive varies from person to person. The ability to perceive depends on the current state, age and concentration on certain events. For example, details that could be important for the clarification of the facts are perceived incorrectly. The witnesses can interrogate each other, deceive themselves optically, confuse people and their names. Let's take a traffic accident as an example. This usually happens quickly, so that a person can hardly grasp all events correctly. Rather, he captures individual parts of the event and from this he unconsciously forms the "overall event".
Numerous researches have been conducted on this topic. They showed that events interpreted directly by people are often associated with other circumstances and only then stored. Later, the events are distorted.
Makes you wonder how many powerful people may be involved, or possibly that CB has something on
 
  • #886
HVW doesn't seem to have received any rebuke for his behaviour, so presumably his superiors were not unhappy with his approach.

The decision to wade head first into the case publically wasn’t made at HCWs level IMO. it would be made at least at the department level if not higher.

remember BKA is also a federal agency whereas Braunschweig is a state department. Be interesting to know who ultimately signed off on it.
 
  • #887
The decision to wade head first into the case publically wasn’t made at HCWs level IMO. it would be made at least at the department level if not higher.

remember BKA is also a federal agency whereas Braunschweig is a state department. Be interesting to know who ultimately signed off on it.
Yes but I think HCW took it to extremes with what he shared and how often. It’s a cluster of their own making.
 
  • #888
Yes but I think HCW took it to extremes with what he shared and how often. It’s a cluster of their own making.

Sure but ultimately he was just the face of it. He was not the lead prosecutor for the trial, and does not run the Braunschweig Prosecutors' Office - so presumably his bosses signed off on all this.
 
  • #889
Sure but ultimately he was just the face of it. He was not the lead prosecutor for the trial, and does not run the Braunschweig Prosecutors' Office - so presumably his bosses signed off on all this.
Makes me wonder how much HCW 'knows' through his own investigations and how much just comes from what he has been told by others.
 
  • #890
The decision to wade head first into the case publically wasn’t made at HCWs level IMO. it would be made at least at the department level if not higher.

remember BKA is also a federal agency whereas Braunschweig is a state department. Be interesting to know who ultimately signed off on it.

It all appears to be very retrograde. All of this occurred as a direct result of the media interest in what was a very live case then which remains so now.

Probably the very last thing that German law enforcement wanted was for their discrete investigation to hit main stream media before they were ready to do so.

However what is done cannot be undone and it certainly German law enforcement should not be used as a whipping boy for press leaks over which they had no control. And which indeed was probably retrograde for all the cases they were working then and now.

Indeed we have seen this publicity highlighted in the recent court case involving CB.

Cui bono in all of this clearing of historical unsolved Portuguese cases stemming from an EAW for drug offences and offences against a child in Germany.
Is it happenstance that the main plank of any defence CB has ever led with is ''publicity debars him from having a fair trial'' and as we see, it works.
Follow the evidence back to Portugal in 2019 when the press pack were swinging their attention towards German paedophile no1, then follow on from there.
My opinion
 
  • #891
  • #892
  • #893
All that should matter is her 2004 police report to the PJ .
 
  • #894
Hmmm, with the criticism of the press during the summing up is it wise to sell your story prior to the appeal and remote possibility of another trial?
Perhaps the story was sold long ago, but has been embargoed until after the trial was over.
 
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  • #895
Perhaps the story was sold long ago, but has been embargoed until after the rial was over.
Is it appropriate to accuse people of receiving monetary payment without corroboration.

Is there a climate of opprobrium developing against HB and HCW or am I merely misinterpreting what is being said.
 
  • #896
Hmmm, with the criticism of the press during the summing up is it wise to sell your story prior to the appeal and remote possibility of another trial?
She has told her story a few years back on an Irish programme, this is what she's said after the trial, the post was more about what she was saying about it. Try not to look to deep into things
 
  • #897
All that should matter is her 2004 police report to the PJ .
Unfortunately I don't think that has been made public so we can't compare what was said in 2004 and 2024
 
  • #898
She has told her story a few years back on an Irish programme, this is what she's said after the trial, the post was more about what she was saying about it. Try not to look to deep into things
Shallow tabloid reports don't satisfy everyone.
 
  • #899
Unfortunately I don't think that has been made public so we can't compare what was said in 2004 and 2024

The 2004 Portuguese file does exist and the judges will have been able to make comparison; As would FF when he was legally entitled to see it and not by harassing a witness to get his hands on it before his client had even been charged.
And not the first time he had attempted to contact a witness - even one who was 'in hiding' and anxious not to be found.

The judge UE did not step in to regain control of her chamber at any stage during HB's gruelling and somewhat prurient interrogation.

Snip
Last May, several criticized presiding judge UE for her lack of sensitivity and empathy towards HB and asked questions that – both in their content and tone – regularly caused a stir in the public gallery.

During the lengthy interrogation by an interpreter, HB remained calm and collected while answering questions about her
  • character,
  • relationships,
  • and sex life.
She remained composed, even when defence lawyer A A asked towards the end of the two days whether she had not been informed by her legal team that she could testify in a closed court.
  • "Why are you telling the story in court?" he asked
HB said she knows her options, adding,
  • "I have no problem with the public hearing what I have to say.
  • We all know why I'm here."
Throughout the proceedings, CB's all-male legal team repeatedly interrupted the judge and the prosecutor and talked over them – and sometimes, it seemed, down to them.

In his summary, FF accused prosecutor L of a lack of "emotional distance" to the proceedings.

The judge did not ask FF to explain this remark, nor why he wrote directly to Behan in 2020, asking her for the file and insisting that his client was innocent.

Behan said she found the letter presented by her defence lawyer to the court "very unusual", adding that "that would not be allowed in Ireland".

High-ranking court officials agreed that the letter was "borderline".

In her ruling, judge UE instead focused on her perceived critics inside and outside the courtroom, especially the prosecution and the media.
They were responsible for "massive autosuggestion" against the defendant, as he was connected to the Madeleine McCann case.
 
  • #900
Hmmm, with the criticism of the press during the summing up is it wise to sell your story prior to the appeal and remote possibility of another trial?

She has every right to talk about her trial experience and express her disappointment with it. It's her trauma, she can do whatever she needs to do to express that if it helps her come out the other side of it and put it behind her so she can move forward and get on with her life. Let's not police that.

She should leave MM out of it though as her experience has nothing to do with MM and invoking MM in these interviews - as if it's a given, a known fact that she shares something with MM - is really not a road down which she should be travelling.

It's emotion-led and has no basis in fact.
 
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