Gilgo Beach LISK Serial Killer, Rex Heuermann, charged with 3 murders, July 2023 #7

[passionflower]

It's not like a lightswitch, though. All offenders are capable of both disorganised and organised behaviour. Bundy's a good example to point to in that. While a lot of his behaviour was highly organised, he would medicate with alcohol, he would be impulsive, and towards the end, he exhibited decompensation that introduced a lot of uncontrolled, extreme overkill to his crimes, but also probably ensured he got caught.

A crime is a dynamic thing. The difference between if a scene presents as organised and disorganised could come down to intoxication, a passing mental health crisis, if a victim fights or behaves in an unexpected way (like escaping), if the perpetrator is disturbed in the middle of the crime.

We think of killers being meticulous and getting away with it for ages as being clever, but sometimes, it's striking something that works early on and doing it over and over without getting too clever about it, and being lucky enough to not get caught. Gary Ridgway and Samuel Little come to mind.

MOO

I’m thinking also of age. Killers get older, lazier? Sloppy? Forgetful?

 

[CuriousCricket]

I'm thinking maybe the burlap came from one of the greenhouses where she probably spent time?

Speculation

interesting . . . Since it was camo burlap and not the gardening type, I'm not sure. Did he perhaps keep his "hunting" supplies in a lawn shed along with her gardening supplies?

 

[passionflower]

Just wanted to clarify that I'm not citing financial abuse as the reason AE is now continuing to live in the house, but rather a possible explanation why she and the kids had to sleep in a vehicle rather than a motel during the investigation of the house.

Your possible reasons why they are remaining in the house now that they are allowed back in all seem extremely plausible.

Surely an advocate of victims should of helped them. In cases of fire etc we have agencies that come to victims. Did she refuse help? Daughter was employed? Son on SSI but no money? Was bank accounts frozen? Yet they had money for a rental car? It doesn’t add up. JMOO

 

[iamshadow21]

I’m thinking also of age. Killers get older, lazier? Sloppy? Forgetful?

Also, they slow down, they get injured or things like arthritis, their senses can worsen, but also, the world changes, forensics develops. What was organised and 'clean' enough preDNA, isn't anymore. What was a stealthy entrance and exit isn't any more in the age of Ring. While leaving town used to work, it doesn't in the age of centralised databases. And while driving and disposing at night used to be good enough, it isn't in the age where traffic cams, business cams, and even your phone and car track and log your movements. In this era, all but the most disorganised of criminals are going to exhibit some behaviour that used to be classed as organised just to keep ahead of the game, and those highly disorganised ones are probably the ones who belong in a psychiatric or drug rehabilitation setting, anyway.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

How reliable is Kolker?
I've not read the book.

The only thing I'd caution is a lot of the reporting on Shannan's last morning seen a live comes from Pak's account. Since Kolker was ahead of a lot of sleuths and depositions, he gives Pak's statements more credibility than warranted.

It's an excellent book, and humanizes victims well.

MOO

 

[Pinkizzy]

*I’ve forgotten an important detail. Was it reported RH is a disorganized serial killer?

In contrast, the disorganized offender is likely to be of below average intelligence, low birth order, and subjected to harsh parental discipline. He is in a confused and distressed state of mind at the time of the murder, is socially inadequate, and sexually incompetent. The crime scene shows that the crime was committed suddenly with no set plan of action for deterring detection. Facial destruction and sexually sadistic acts performed after the murder are typical. Disorganized offenders usually leave the victim in the same position in which he or she was killed and make no attempt to conceal the body. Case examples and photographs are included

Crime Scene and Profile Characteristics of Organized and Disorganized Murders | Office of Justice Programs

www.ojp.gov

https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/99114-99117NCJRS.pdf

He's an organised serial killer

 

[vls12345]

Most women shed a lot of hair. Maybe it's just more noticeable as our hair is generally longer than most male styles. Rex was likely oblivious to the fact that the wife's hair was in his vehicle, on his own clothes, etc. It is very easily transferred from one surface to another. Look around in your own vehicle, on your clothes, etc., and I'll bet you can find a hair or two at any given time.

I wonder if the Chevy Avalanche had cloth seats (vs. vinyl or leather)? I would think cloth might be more likely to have stray hair clinging to it. MOO.

 

[DetectiveDraper]

Does anyone know if any of the victims connected to RH and those he's not been connected to were HIV positive?

 

[Sundog]

Surely an advocate of victims should of helped them. In cases of fire etc we have agencies that come to victims. Did she refuse help? Daughter was employed? Son on SSI but no money? Was bank accounts frozen? Yet they had money for a rental car? It doesn’t add up. JMOO

I haven't seen any MSM reporting that any victims' advocacy group was helping AE while she had no living arrangements while LE searched the house. I also don't think she would have refused help, she seems very open to help when it has been offered according to her statements to the media and MSM reporting. Daughter was employed at her father's firm which closed the day he was arrested. Son may have been on SSI but that likely wasn't a lot of money and who knows where they were with regard to the monthly cycle of SSI payments. Bank accounts may not have been frozen, but if they were living from paycheck to paycheck as many people do, there might not have been much to draw from after bills were paid, like mortgage, etc. She could have used a credit card for a car and hotel, but if she was trying to keep credit card purchases low, a rental car for a week is a lot cheaper than a hotel for a week. (That's if the car was a rental, I don't recall if it was a rental car or her car or a relative's car.)

 

[sceawian]

I was sitting here reading and silently agreeing with how easy it is for long hair to get everywhere, when I look up and see a glint. Somehow a strand of my hair is currently dangling off the main ceiling light...

 

[kittythehare]

I was sitting here reading and silently agreeing with how easy it is for long hair to get everywhere, when I look up and see a glint. Somehow a strand of my hair is currently dangling off the main ceiling light...

that should be fine , so long as there is no corpse attached to it...

 

[ArianeEmory]

The only thing I'd caution is a lot of the reporting on Shannan's last morning seen a live comes from Pak's account. Since Kolker was ahead of a lot of sleuths and depositions, he gives Pak's statements more credibility than warranted.

Small counterpoint, don’t Pak and Brewer’s statements ultimately line up pretty well with the 911 audio? (Which they wouldn’t have had access to.)

 

[kittythehare]

Small counterpoint, don’t Pak and Brewer’s statements ultimately line up pretty well with the 911 audio? (Which they wouldn’t have had access to.)

They wouldn't have needed access to it, they were both there beside her and at least one of them was causing her massive fear and anxiety to the level that she requested rescuing..

 

[DS2021]

According to Josh Zeman from The Killing Season, it sounds like Peaches and her baby may be identified! More info may be released in two weeks

Skip to the 3 minute mark

 

[Warwick7]

Small counterpoint, don’t Pak and Brewer’s statements ultimately line up pretty well with the 911 audio? (Which they wouldn’t have had access to.)

They don't. MOO
I am 1/2 way through his deposition and each time I compare the 911 call to what I am reading, I shake my head.

 

[Charlot123]

It's not like a lightswitch, though. All offenders are capable of both disorganised and organised behaviour. Bundy's a good example to point to in that. While a lot of his behaviour was highly organised, he would medicate with alcohol, he would be impulsive, and towards the end, he exhibited decompensation that introduced a lot of uncontrolled, extreme overkill to his crimes, but also probably ensured he got caught.

A crime is a dynamic thing. The difference between if a scene presents as organised and disorganised could come down to intoxication, a passing mental health crisis, if a victim fights or behaves in an unexpected way (like escaping), if the perpetrator is disturbed in the middle of the crime.

We think of killers being meticulous and getting away with it for ages as being clever, but sometimes, it's striking something that works early on and doing it over and over without getting too clever about it, and being lucky enough to not get caught. Gary Ridgway and Samuel Little come to mind.

MOO

I have read an articles postulating that Ted Bundy had bipolar disorder, and his last stint during which he was caught was an episode of mania. Can’t positively comment, but it solidifies my feeling that keeping SKs alive and studying them makes more sense than DP. About Israel Keyes I am almost positive he had some bipolarity. No one pushed him to talk about all his “feats”. It is as if after arrest, he became so impulsively talkative that he simply couldn’t keep it inside, and it accelerated and then, culminated in suicide. A very disorganized episode in the life of a highly organized killer, what does it imply?

So I wonder whether SKs make mistakes not as they get older, nor “towards the end” of their careers, but whether they are cyclical in their behavioral patterns, and make mistakes during especially bad episodes. It makes sense to me as most SKs I read about are people of high control, and episodes of total dyscontrol intercalating in their behavior might indicate some emotional imbalance.

One article that I read, about the seasonality of human behaviors, when suicidal peak falls on spring and homicidal - on summer, points the need to study the “killing patterns” of SKs depending on the seasons, and whether the level of their organization changes with the seasons, too.

Was Ted Bundy Diagnosed With A Mental Illness? | Oxygen

Ted Bundy is one of the most well-known serial killers in the history of America. Known as much for his horrific crimes — he killed more than 30 people that investigators know of — as his allegedly charming demeanor, Bundy remains an oft-examined figure in the world of true crime.

www.oxygen.com

This article raises more questions than answers but is also deeper

The Making and the Breaking of the Serial Killer

What kinds of factors make and break the serial killer? A look at Conduct Disorder, addiction, and the frontal lobes of psychopaths could hold some answers.

www.psychologytoday.com

 

[Ruminations]

They don't r

Small counterpoint, don’t Pak and Brewer’s statements ultimately line up pretty well with the 911 audio? (Which they wouldn’t have had access to.)

I find Pak and Brewer to be inconsistent with themselves and each other. Pretty astonishing being that it was a night that they lived, and had to replay again and again in their minds considering that a woman was last seen alive then.

The stories about the blood-curdling scream are not consistent with each other. And their behavior- silence- is ridiculous if they're motives were innocent. Ordinary people would spring into action and possibly restrain her then, not to hurt her but to help her if she were really screaming at nothing.

MOO

 

[Ruminations]

Does anyone know if any of the victims connected to RH and those he's not been connected to were HIV positive?

I'm curious: why do you ask?

 

[kittythehare]

I have read an articles postulating that Ted Bundy had bipolar disorder, and his last stint during which he was caught was an episode of mania. Can’t positively comment, but it solidifies my feeling that keeping SKs alive and studying them makes more sense than DP. About Israel Keyes I am almost positive he had some bipolarity. No one pushed him to talk about all his “feats”. It is as if after arrest, he became so impulsively talkative that he simply couldn’t keep it inside, and it accelerated and then, culminated in suicide. A very disorganized episode in the life of a highly organized killer, what does it imply?

So I wonder whether SKs make mistakes not as they get older, nor “towards the end” of their careers, but whether they are cyclical in their behavioral patterns, and make mistakes during especially bad episodes. It makes sense to me as most SKs I read about are people of high control, and episodes of total dyscontrol intercalating in their behavior might indicate some emotional imbalance.

One article that I read, about the seasonality of human behaviors, when suicidal peak falls on spring and homicidal - on summer, points the need to study the “killing patterns” of SKs depending on the seasons, and whether the level of their organization changes with the seasons, too.

Was Ted Bundy Diagnosed With A Mental Illness? | Oxygen

Ted Bundy is one of the most well-known serial killers in the history of America. Known as much for his horrific crimes — he killed more than 30 people that investigators know of — as his allegedly charming demeanor, Bundy remains an oft-examined figure in the world of true crime.

www.oxygen.com

This article raises more questions than answers but is also deeper

The Making and the Breaking of the Serial Killer

What kinds of factors make and break the serial killer? A look at Conduct Disorder, addiction, and the frontal lobes of psychopaths could hold some answers.

www.psychologytoday.com

I'm wary.

I do see a moral and ethical rationale for justifying the study of cancers and other physical diseases in the interest of curing or at least providing more effective treatment or analysing actual treatment received.

I cannot subscribe to the removal of brains from evil people.
serial killers are not a homogeneous group.
No more than thieves or angry people in general..

I'm interested in the genre of it.. and I do believe in the phenomena of copycat killings, these are credible and evidence backed.
Brain disease and mental illness is best left in the hands of the psychiatric community.

jMO

 

[DetectiveDraper]

I'm curious: why do you ask?

Because if could be a motive or what made him start killing to begin with, along with other issues like narcissism or sociopathy.