Gilgo Beach LISK Serial Killer, Rex Heuermann, charged with 3 murders, July 2023

[ArianeEmory]

“The assertions contained the people’s moving papers might be construed as rising to the level of a reasonable suspicion, but that is a far cry from the standard of probable cause required to justify granting the order sought be the people,” wrote Danielle Coysh, an attorney for Heuermann.

I can’t get past the adwall to the source article, but if this is verbatim text from an attorney, they’d better start running their filings past a copy editor. Prepositions may be short but they’re still important.

 

[Baby baby Jane]

Afaik, AE wasn't born in Iceland but in South Farmingdale/NY. So, Iceland isn't home to her, only a nice place for vacation, I think.

I had wondered why AE Icelandic heritage was even mentioned by LE … do you think it might be that as it’s a very small country population-wise, not that many people with Iceland DNA are in America, and that her hair & it’s unique regional DNA helped ID RH? How many Icelandics on LI? I mean, why mention it unless it’s somehow relevant? She is American, born in USA!?

 

[kittythehare]

It is of great importance to get a sample DIRECTLY from him, with witnesses. Samples from objects he has used or touched are enough for a warrant, but for the trial moving forward, they need that primary sample. Cheek swab or blood sample.

MOO

I think they can proceed without it.

Their other option to compel would be to charge and convict him of a misdemeanor and there must be several already.

DNA | NY CourtHelp

DNA Databank​

Since 2012, any defendant convicted of a misdemeanor or felony must give a DNA sample to be added to the New York State DNA Databank. The defendant will also be required to pay a fee. The court requires the defendant to pay the Databank fee even if the defendant does not need to provide a new DNA sample. See Surcharges and Fees. The police use this database to look for matches to DNA collected from crimes. The DNA Databank is not open to the public.

They can obtain a warrant, surely?

This is an old case, 2009

People v. Regan

The Court of Appeals reversed the decision of the appellate division affirming the judgment of the trial court convicting Defendant of rape in the first degree, holding that Defendant's constitutional right to prompt prosecution under the due process clause of the New York Constitution was...

law.justia.com

In addition to misdemeanors and felonies, all sex offenders are required to give DNA samples to the DNA Databank.

 

[Betty P]

I think they can proceed without it.

Their other option to compel would be to charge and convict him of a misdemeanor and there must be several already.

DNA | NY CourtHelp

DNA Databank​

Since 2012, any defendant convicted of a misdemeanor or felony must give a DNA sample to be added to the New York State DNA Databank. The defendant will also be required to pay a fee. The court requires the defendant to pay the Databank fee even if the defendant does not need to provide a new DNA sample. See Surcharges and Fees. The police use this database to look for matches to DNA collected from crimes. The DNA Databank is not open to the public.

They can obtain a warrant, surely?

This is an old case, 2009

People v. Regan

The Court of Appeals reversed the decision of the appellate division affirming the judgment of the trial court convicting Defendant of rape in the first degree, holding that Defendant's constitutional right to prompt prosecution under the due process clause of the New York Constitution was...

law.justia.com

In addition to misdemeanors and felonies, all sex offenders are required to give DNA samples to the DNA Databank.

They'll find a way and they'll make sure the process and chain of custody is clear. JMO

 

[kittythehare]

They'll find a way and they'll make sure the process and chain of custody is clear. JMO

Just going through this

https://www.nycourts.gov/courts/ad1/committees&programs/CLE/Materials%20-%205-17-12.pdf

 

[Sundog]

Maryland v. King

<p>Concerning the Constitutionality of Mandatory DNA Collection Pre-Conviction</p>

epic.org

Some interesting background on the U.S. Supreme Court and taking cheek swabs of arrestees who haven't been convicted.

Also, the article discusses how different states have different laws regarding this issue. A state of Maryland case is given as an example of this in case law. A defendant was forced to give a cheek swab before his trial and appealed after he was found guilty and the Maryland Supreme Court overturned the ruling based on the buccal swab issue. The specific issue was that they used the swab to identify other crimes, not just the one(s) for which the defendant was initially arrested. The Maryland v King is an interesting case to read, imo, in ight of what is going on with the RH situation.

Many legal experts question the constitutionality of taking a cheeck swab while a person is still presumed innocent.

Maryland v. King

<p>Concerning the Constitutionality of Mandatory DNA Collection Pre-Conviction</p>

epic.org

edited for spelling

 

[Sundog]

I had wondered why AE Icelandic heritage was even mentioned by LE … do you think it might be that as it’s a very small country population-wise, not that many people with Iceland DNA are in America, and that her hair & it’s unique regional DNA helped ID RH? How many Icelandics on LI? I mean, why mention it unless it’s somehow relevant? She is American, born in USA!?

I think the only reason LE mentioned AE's Islandic background is because the evidence they have collected shows that the dates of the crimes correlate to dates when AE and children were either out of the country, visiting Iceland; or out of state on vacation.

edited by me

 

[margarita25]

how can they suddenly be identifying all the victims? omigod this is so weird..what if it's from evidence found in the house or something?

I think it has to do with the advancement of DNA technology & genetic genealogy/familial DNA:

“In 2022, the Suffolk County Police Department in collaboration with the FBI teamed with Othram to determine if advanced DNA testing could help to identify Fire Island Jane Doe. Forensic evidence was sent to Othram’s laboratory in The Woodlands, Texas. Othram scientists developed a suitable DNA extract from the forensic evidence and then used Forensic-Grade Genome Sequencing® to build a comprehensive genealogical profile. After successfully completing the process, the DNA profile was delivered to the FBI's forensic genetic genealogy team and the FBI team performed the necessary work to generate investigative leads.

The FBI team working with Suffolk County Police Department continued the investigation and were eventually able to confirmed the identity of Fire Island Jane Doe as Karen Vergata of Manhattan, New York. Vergata was 34 years old at the time of her death. Vergata was missing since Valentine's Day in 1996.”

After 26 years, Fire Island Jane Doe is Identified

Suffolk County Police Department and the FBI Team with Othram to Identify a 1996 Gilgo Beach Murder Victim

dnasolves.com

 

[Sundog]

Afaik, AE wasn't born in Iceland but in South Farmingdale/NY. So, Iceland isn't home to her, only a nice place for vacation, I think.

I thought I read early on that AE and her sister emigrated to the United States as children with their parents.

Nonetheless, I agree that Iceland would not be home to her as she grew up in the U.S. Also, Iceland has a very low population and her husband's infamy would likely follow her there. She may actually have more privacy here in the U.S.

 

[investigatefred]

I think I was watching this last night on News Nation and I have not listened to the recording yet but I didn't like her saying that Shannon was out of it...now Im going to listen to it myself. I believe that she was stalked and murdered by Rex.
wether she was high or not has nothing to do with it. Park had a legitimate reason to be there and look for her..he was her
driver, so my best intuition tells me that Shannon couldn't figure out what was going on..was paranoid that Park and some other dude "they" were stalking her and going to kill her..when really it was just Pax looking for her while Rex was stalking her around those homes and coming out of nowhere and chasing her in his vehicle.

I don't know why Rex was there maybe he goes out at night and drives around the old girl garden..but I don't believe for a moment Shannon is not part of this. mOO

IMO, Rex didn't kill Shannan, however I do feel someone within the confines of Oak Beach did. It is a gated community, so unless Rex was an invited guest of someone living there, he couldn't have gotten past the gate to drive in to stalk her.

 

[Dhighsmith]

Which leads one to ask "why is the defense team making this point while telling the judge that he doesn't want Rex to give the buccal swab?"

ETA: I've been following some trials the last few years where DNA is a big part of the evidence. Defense attorneys always make these kinds of strange arguments. JMO, it serves 2 purposes: 1. to confuse the public/potential jury pool and 2. to establish some kind of grounds to make an appeal at a later date. JMO

Agree. It’s almost impossible to argue against DNA results except to claim failure to comply with proper procedures. Silly thought I know but hope we don’t discover sometime in the future DNA is not reliable as the woman who claimed development of a single blood test for medical diagnosis in illnesses- she’s now behind bars for her fraud.

 

[iamshadow21]

Agree. It’s almost impossible to argue against DNA results except to claim failure to comply with proper procedures. Silly thought I know but hope we don’t discover sometime in the future DNA is not reliable as the woman who claimed development of a single blood test for medical diagnosis in illnesses- she’s now behind bars for her fraud.

Hence why it's important that everything is documented at every stage - collection, processing, interpretation. What they did, how they did it, how they arrived at the result they did. They're going to be asked on the stand to show their work, so they'd better be able to.

She's behind bars for fraud because the idea she had was never viable, they never made it work, they fabricated evidence to support their claim it did work, and they took money from a lot of people including the government to 'build' it when they never built anything. I don't think you can compare Elizabeth Holmes and her smoke and mirrors with almost forty years of forensic science using DNA, when what Holmes did was essentially just a modern version of a classic scam that has fleeced many a person of their cash in the last few centuries. (Silver mine, anyone? I can get you in on the ground floor. )

Don't get me wrong, ANY science can be misused or held up as proof of something it isn't. But there are few things so closely examined as DNA in forensic science right now, except perhaps electronic data interpretation. I don't see DNA falling from grace as hard and fast as Theranos in my lifetime, if ever. There's a good reason it's compared to fingerprints, after all, and fingerprints are still solid after a century of being used to solve crimes and identify people.

MOO

 

[SonsOfCain]

A full investigation will necessarily uncover formerly suppressed information, I think.
As this will have to involve Suffolk county players are they prepared to do further naming and shaming or allow sleeping dogs to lay?

I'm not sure how committed they are.

My own suspicions are that rH had access to a building where he brought his victims, a room, a basement, a warehouse, a shed.. i think , speculatively that there is where the information will be.

As nothing particularly relevant appears to have been discovered at his residence there simply must be another location somewhere.

As these murders occurred while his wife was away it suggests he required a few overnight or longer stays away from his home, suggesting he possibly held them for a time before killing and disposing of them- his own personal torture chamber.

we know the dates they went missing but not the dates they died or were disposed.

Agreed. I think there was a place he brought them before he killed them too. Doing so in a car or outside would be a huge risk because someone could just drive or walk right by him. He needed privacy to commit his heinous crimes.

 

[kittythehare]

Agreed. I think there was a place he brought them before he killed them too. Doing so in a car or outside would be a huge risk because someone could just drive or walk right by him. He needed privacy to commit his heinous crimes.

Gonna be so difficult to find that place now, it might have been demolished in the interim but I imagine he has another stashed away.

He had no good reason to stop.

Where is it and how can it be found?
This guy would have had access to all kinds of places because of his work.
It could be a building connected to a building he surveyed...
where is the thing??

 

[Sjöberg]

AE has not been interviewed by police and has not been asked to speak to them.

I am very surprised about this.
I would think that talking to a spouse (morover, to a spouse who was living with serial killer and whose hair was on the victims) would be pretty high in the priority list, no? It's been quite a while now and all kinds of information has already been exchanged via media that can influence her testimony etc.

 

[margarita25]

Do we have any writing samples of RH by chance?

 

[Ruminations]

IMO, Rex didn't kill Shannan, however I do feel someone within the confines of Oak Beach did. It is a gated community, so unless Rex was an invited guest of someone living there, he couldn't have gotten past the gate to drive in to stalk her.

According to Brewer, each resident had an individual gate code. All it would take is one friend to tell Rex his/hers. Brewer supposedly attempted to share his with Pak. (They both admit this, but deny arranging the murder-date.)

I'd put my money on 1-2-3-4 working, if each home had its own code.

And the gated community was not private, shared property like a condominium. The grounds are apparently leased from a municipality and only the homes are privately owned. There is nothing illegal about entering the area.

Yet, I have not seen evidence attaching crimes against Shannan to Rex.

MOO.

 

[kittythehare]

I am very surprised about this.
I would think that talking to a spouse (morover, to a spouse who was living with serial killer and whose hair was on the victims) would be pretty high in the priority list, no? It's been quite a while now and all kinds of information has already been exchanged via media that can influence her testimony etc.

Well the dA cited her as saying
'it is what it is' when she was asked a question so that cannot be accurate.
Of course they spoke with her.

 

[Warwick7]

I think I was watching this last night on News Nation and I have not listened to the recording yet but I didn't like her saying that Shannon was out of it...now Im going to listen to it myself. I believe that she was stalked and murdered by Rex.
wether she was high or not has nothing to do with it. Park had a legitimate reason to be there and look for her..he was her
driver, so my best intuition tells me that Shannon couldn't figure out what was going on..was paranoid that Park and some other dude "they" were stalking her and going to kill her..when really it was just Pax looking for her while Rex was stalking her around those homes and coming out of nowhere and chasing her in his vehicle.

I don't know why Rex was there maybe he goes out at night and drives around the old girl garden..but I don't believe for a moment Shannon is not part of this. mOO

MOO Shannan wasn't paranoid, she had extreme fear.

John Ray, Gilbert atty says, that while there is no evidence linking Heuermann to Gilbert’s death, there is no doubt to him and the Gilbert’s family that SG was murdered by someone.

Family attorney: 'There is no doubt whatsoever that Shannan Gilbert was murdered'

Shannan Gilbert went missing in 2010. During the search, authorities stumbled upon human remains belonging to at least 18 women – most of whom were sex workers.

newjersey.news12.com

 

[Warwick7]

Robert Macedonia is AE's attorney and from all appearances so far, IMO he is doing a great job, beyond just being her attorney. He continues to show great concern for her, even went to her home this week and is working with others to try and get it fixed up so it is more liveable for the family as long as they are living there. One of his cients has donated some of those industrial bins to help with the clean up (which is badly needed), and they (including Macedonia) are trying to find some volunteers to help fix the drains to the bathtub and sinks so that AE and her children can use them. AE's attorney strikes me as a person with great empathy for her and her children.

The frown on his forehead shows his deep worry and concern for Asa and her children, IMO, and I applaud him for going well beyond his duty regarding representation of his client.


Edited to add: The client of RM who donated the bins for clean up also donated labor to help with the clean up.

Nice, sounds like the account at Macedonia's is being put to good use.
:0)