Golf club or flashlight or....?

[crimedoesnotpay]

I agree. Somebody was most definately capable of the prior injuries, and I agree that PR was capable. Once I accepted that the digital penetration didn't necessarily point to a man, a big door was opened. I have never seen penal penetration verified, and IMO, if this was all done by a man, there would probably have been penal penetration. What kind of perverted man would go to the sexual extreme of asphyxiation games, but stop at digital penetration? Makes no sense, unless he was impotenet. Asphyxiation to the point of near death is hard core perversion and I don't see anything that points to a sexual game gone bad. IMO, this was about anger and punishment. JB's little body was viciously attacked, and IMO, the anger takes precedence over anything sexual. And who would have been angry enough at her, to inflict so much damage? All MOO.

I don't think the killer was angry at HER but I do agree he was very angry indeed.

 

[OpenMind4U]

I agree. Somebody was most definately capable of the prior injuries, and I agree that PR was capable. Once I accepted that the digital penetration didn't necessarily point to a man, a big door was opened. I have never seen penal penetration verified, and IMO, if this was all done by a man, there would probably have been penal penetration. What kind of perverted man would go to the sexual extreme of asphyxiation games, but stop at digital penetration? Makes no sense, unless he was impotenet. Asphyxiation to the point of near death is hard core perversion and I don't see anything that points to a sexual game gone bad. IMO, this was about anger and punishment. JB's little body was viciously attacked, and IMO, the anger takes precedence over anything sexual. And who would have been angry enough at her, to inflict so much damage? All MOO.

I'm with you. I would even add something else: 'this was about anger and punishment and sexual psyhological disorder'. Way back, I was absolutely sure that JBR murder was all about 'sex'. Today, I'm taking the different road. WHEN? WHY? WHO?

WHEN?
Based on Kolar's book and expert's identification of the 'near-death' time for acute injury, the following gives us the answer: head blow---> 90 min---> acute injury---> strangulation/death.

WHY?
I hate to repeat myself, but the fact is loud and clear: the acute injury is the ONLY injury which was attempted to be HIDDEN by wiping off and re-dressing!. Why not leave it 'as is' to blame 'kidnappers' for it? Why 'undue' it? IMO, to HIDE the 'sexual pervert' side of JBR death! Another medical term for 'sexual pervert' is PARAPHILIA. Let's see the difinition:

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Sexual+pervert

Paraphilia /para·phil·ia/ (par″ah-fil´e-ah) a psychosexual disorder marked by sexual urges, fantasies, and behavior involving objects, suffering or humiliation, or children or other nonconsenting partners. A psychosexual disorder in which sexual gratification is obtained through highly unusual practices that are harmful or humiliating to others or socially repugnant, such as voyeurism or pedophilia.

Scary, a?....but kind of fit the overall JBR's injuries, isn't?

WHO?
I don't know....for sure. I have an idea.

JMO

 

[txsvicki]

I keep thinking the behavior of both kids and physical reports of redness could have been from fanatical rubbing and cleaning and being rubbed raw. Reports of both kids having rashes, discomfort about about wetting issues, and even some mention of the boy handling himself when small. That could be from soreness or discomfort. Even the wiping off of urine at death. Bruises were seen on jonbenet's arms from what looked like being grabbed and many things seemed to have been noticed during pageant beginnings or dress up time. Then there's the statements of lhp about maybe hearing screaming from the bathroom and never really seeing those sheets. The only work she ever saw done. No wonder ST had his theory. Unless there are things we haven't seen, patsy also gave a different cause of the redness than what the doctor reported. He said nothing about wet panties causing anything.

 

[azwriter]

What was found on the sheets was proven to be creatinine- from dried urine. That was conclusive. What was found on the carpet sections taken from her room and possibly the basement has been thought to be creatine as well, but I have not seen that stated as definite.

I do think any of us know what the test results are from most the evidence taken from the home. There's so much we are still missing out on.

Let's not forget, however, when it comes to the carpet anywhere in the house that the family had a dog. And from what I've read it was JonBenet's dog and he wasn't that well house trained. I think that's one of the reason the dog spent time at the neighbors home, not just when the Ramsey family was traveling. That little dog could have caused many of the strains on the home's flooring. Just saying.

 

[dodie20]

I'm with you. I would even add something else: 'this was about anger and punishment and sexual psyhological disorder'. Way back, I was absolutely sure that JBR murder was all about 'sex'. Today, I'm taking the different road. WHEN? WHY? WHO?

WHEN?
Based on Kolar's book and expert's identification of the 'near-death' time for acute injury, the following gives us the answer: head blow---> 90 min---> acute injury---> strangulation/death.

WHY?
I hate to repeat myself, but the fact is loud and clear: the acute injury is the ONLY injury which was attempted to be HIDDEN by wiping off and re-dressing!. Why not leave it 'as is' to blame 'kidnappers' for it? Why 'undue' it? IMO, to HIDE the 'sexual pervert' side of JBR death! Another medical term for 'sexual pervert' is PARAPHILIA. Let's see the difinition:

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Sexual+pervert



Scary, a?....but kind of fit the overall JBR's injuries, isn't?

WHO?
I don't know....for sure. I have an idea.

JMO

Well, I don't think there was any way to hide the sexual assault, and I think the perp probably knew 'what's done is done'. But, I do think the perp might have been compelled to try to undo it anyway. Another thing I've been thinking, is if the perp was a woman, she may have been trying to make it look like a man had done this. But since she didn't have access to any male fluids, she could wipe JB down, so the cops would think a male wiped her down in order to get rid of his evidence. I've been thinking about JAR's blanket being in the basement, and imo, somebody could have been trying to set him up. Wiping JB down, could have been a part of that same scenario. moo

 

[midwest mama]

OpenMind - Hmmmm......Paraphilia? Someone else recently on one of the forum threads mentioned this concept briefly. It caught my attention then, and you have stirred up something that would really contribute to that 'psycopath' mentally, wouldn't it?

Paraphilia /para·phil·ia/ (par″ah-fil´e-ah) a psychosexual disorder marked by sexual urges, fantasies, and behavior involving objects, suffering or humiliation, or children or other nonconsenting partners. A psychosexual disorder in which sexual gratification is obtained through highly unusual practices that are harmful or humiliating to others or socially repugnant, such as voyeurism or pedophilia.

You are right, this all sounds very familiar in connection with the R's. Especially adding the concept of the possibility of Patsy being a victim of child sexual abuse herself. JMO

 

[OpenMind4U]

OpenMind - Hmmmm......Paraphilia? Someone else recently on one of the forum threads mentioned this concept briefly. It caught my attention then, and you have stirred up something that would really contribute to that 'psycopath' mentally, wouldn't it?

Paraphilia /para·phil·ia/ (par″ah-fil´e-ah) a psychosexual disorder marked by sexual urges, fantasies, and behavior involving objects, suffering or humiliation, or children or other nonconsenting partners. A psychosexual disorder in which sexual gratification is obtained through highly unusual practices that are harmful or humiliating to others or socially repugnant, such as voyeurism or pedophilia.

You are right, this all sounds very familiar in connection with the R's. Especially adding the concept of the possibility of Patsy being a victim of child sexual abuse herself. JMO

....Honestly, I hope I'm wrong...it's simply sickenning. But, everything you've touch about PR behavior - is not normal, IMO.

Very soon, I'll post some analysis based on PF (Police Files) book. I'm slow writer and bad speller, so please forgive me in advance...

 

[OpenMind4U]

When you'll read the bellow statements from Police Files, please keep your mind opened. I'll skip a lot of sentences for the space/typing purpose and will only address the only one in regards to current discussion.

From June 23, 1998, interview with Patsy (with my comments in blue, italic).

TH: In the earlier interview, and I think it was the one on April 30th last year, the Whites name came up... (skip)....Could you tell us what about them has changed and what you have noticed...be candid.

PR:...(skip)...and then when we were in Atlanta, I just sort of remember Priscilla standing in my mother's living room, family room, you know, just kind of like this and saying, 'Well, I know what's going on,' and she said, 'If you would give me a few minutes of your time, I could let you in on some things.' And I turned to her and I said, 'Priscilla, how can you know so much?' And I said, 'I am the mother of this child. And I know nothing.'.....(skip)....There was just her - you know, it was just this kind of, 'I know what's going on here and you don't. And if you give me a few minutes of your time, I could clue you in.'...(skip)...I mean, you know, here we are mourning the death of this child, for crying out loud, and she goes off....(skip)...

Keep in mind, that JBR and BR were spending a LOT of times at FW house because both of Whites weren't working. FW was the one who watch childrens when PW and PR were going shopping, lunch...FW loves playing with children and JBR loves to be at their house. IMO, if any wrong BR behavior was present - FW would knows about it more than any other Ramsey's friends.

TH: Was there anything in this prior behavior that looking back now seems unusual?

PR: Well, Priscilla was never crazy about me doing this whole pegeant with JonBenet....(skip)...My daughter was a performer, she was beautiful, she was outgoing, and flourished in that type of an environment. Daphne was not.'

SNOB b..tch! The question was about 'unusual' behavior of Whites. Patsy's answer was about 'acceptance' of her own behavior.

TD: Would Fleet ever baby-sit the children?

PR: Well, (skip)...we were all up at the lake...and John had to fly to New York...(skip)...And Priscilla said - she said, 'John is going to New York, let's go shopping for the day.' And I said, 'Who would keep the kids?' She said, 'O, Fleet can take care of the kids.'...When I got home, the house was a disaster.'

Look who's talking?!!! ...pretending to be such a nitty person, isn't? The question was about 'baby-sit' not about the house! She didn't mention if children was ok or not, did they ate or not, were they dirty or not...she said the 'house was a disaster!...plus, I'm not the English major but I know the difference between 'keep' and 'take care' when reffered to children......
Now, when you had a small glimpse of PR attitude, we'll go to the 'sexual' part of this particular interview ...please read Part 2 - Take Care of 'Private'

 

[crimedoesnotpay]

When you'll read the bellow statements from Police Files, please keep your mind opened. I'll skip a lot of sentences for the space/typing purpose and will only address the only one in regards to current discussion.

From June 23, 1998, interview with Patsy (with my comments in blue, italic).



Keep in mind, that JBR and BR were spending a LOT of times at FW house because both of Whites weren't working. FW was the one who watch childrens when PW and PR were going shopping, lunch...FW loves playing with children and JBR loves to be at their house. IMO, if any wrong BR behavior was present - FW would knows about it more than any other Ramsey's friends.



SNOB b..tch! The question was about 'unusual' behavior of Whites. Patsy's answer was about 'acceptance' of her own behavior.



Look who's talking?!!! ...pretending to be such a nitty person, isn't? The question was about 'baby-sit' not about the house! She didn't mention if children was ok or not, did they ate or not, were they dirty or not...she said the 'house was a disaster!...plus, I'm not the English major but I know the difference between 'keep' and 'take care' when reffered to children......
Now, when you had a small glimpse of PR attitude, we'll go to the 'sexual' part of this particular interview ...please read Part 2 - Take Care of 'Private'

Is there a link to this conversation - the transcript I mean?

 

[OpenMind4U]

TD:One more question. If JonBenet was bothered by someone, do you think she would communicate that to you, or was she a little more stoic about it, would keep it to herself?

PR: I think she would have told because we had talked about all the areas covered by your swimsuit belong to JonBenet. Not to anybody else. Mom can touch these areas because, you know, and different things, and Dr. Beuf with mommy in the room, those were the ground rules. Not daddy, not Burke, not grampa, not anybody else...'

TH: While we are on the subject, tell us...what you told JonBenet and when and how did this start...(skip)?

PR:...Pinky Barber, a friend of mine, had been to some kind of seminar on child safety or something. And she wanted me to go along, and for some reason I couldn't attend with her, so I discussed with her what - you know, she said, well, that they spent some time talking about how to talk with your children about strangers and all that kind of stuff. And she said, 'I talked to my girls about it.'...That's when this bathing suit thing came up. She said, 'I just tell them that nobody touches you where the bathing suit touches.' And I thought that was a really great way to approach that...so JonBenet and I, I don't know, maybe at bathtime, maybe when I was putting on her bathing suit or something. You know, 'These are JonBenet's private parts here, you know, where the bathing suit touches and nobody ever touches your private parts except mommy and Dr.Beuf with mommy in the room.'

TH: About when would you have started conveying this to her?

PR: Probably when she was FOUR'.

Before I'll raise my opinion about the above 'bathing suit' approach starting at the age of FOUR, I beg you to tell me what's wrong with the above picture? And why it was OK for the strangers to attend JBR needs, wiping her butt after she've done her buisiness at the age of 6...? Patsy didn't mind! Does butt is not part which supposetly covered by the bathing suit?....Are we talking 'modesty' or 'sexual' orientation course here, at age 4?....Does the course which her friiend attended was about child safety around 'strangers', right? But PR extanded this to ALL males of her family, why? At age 4? Please correct me if I'm wrong....because culture and environment is rapidly changing and maybe it's me who don't understand.

 

[OpenMind4U]

Is there a link to this conversation - the transcript I mean?

O, should mention, sorry...All interviews are from 'The Police Files' book.

 

[Tadpole12]

O, should mention, sorry...All interviews are from 'The Police Files' book.

Heyya OpenMind4U.



JonBenet: The Police Files

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/JonBenet-Police-Files-Don-Gentile/dp/1932270035"]JonBenet: The Police Files: Don Gentile,David Wright: 9781932270037: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51G5MZ4417L.@@AMEPARAM@@51G5MZ4417L[/ame]

 

[crimedoesnotpay]

Heyya OpenMind4U.



JonBenet: The Police Files

JonBenet: The Police Files: Don Gentile,David Wright: 9781932270037: Amazon.com: Books

Any police files on what any of the others said - the other suspects - I would actually be more interested in those to be fair.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

No, ACR hasn't been wrong. The room adjoining JB's room was originally Melinda's. After she left the area (and became engaged) the room was given to JAR to use when he came home on weekends.(which he did frequently, we hear). His campus was only a few minutes away, but he came home often on weekends.
Interesting that many of JB's visits to the school nurse were on a Monday.

I'm like you, otg...late on the ballgame or simply confused and forgot which book tells us which story...here is from ST book, page 21.



By the way, sorry for changing the subject, by re-reading ST, I found another 'peculiar' detail which make me stop and think of something...(I know the danger of thinking too much...ST book, page 28. Wondering if you or anyone else discuss this as well before?



FW was 'run back' to look at tape. Why tape? What was so special for FW to 'stare at it' again? Did he recognize something?...And I was remember that somewhere I was reading about an accident happens at FW house day before, during FW Christmas party. Remember, when someone asked Burke if anything important happens that evening and he responded that nothing special, just he had been a little 'electrecuted' by some deer decoration outside of the WF house? Am I remember this correctly?...just wondering, if FW has some problem with outside decoration wires - did he used any tapes for insulation to correct an electrical problem?...If yes, does he recognized this tape or shape of it?...

I don't know, it's probably me...Lately, I'm questioning every detail in disbelieve...Sorry, for going out of the topic...

It was an electrical fence that is strung on posts (much like the use for cows and horses) to keep deer out of your gardens, yards, etc. They have a small electric current that runs through. The same type are used for dogs They are used all over the United States. Nothing more than that.

 

[OpenMind4U]

It was an electrical fence that is strung on posts (much like the use for cows and horses) to keep deer out of your gardens, yards, etc. They have a small electric current that runs through. The same type are used for dogs They are used all over the United States. Nothing more than that.

Thank you very much. Something to learn every day...Interestingly enough, days later, while reading the 'Police Files', I found the following from JR interview in regards of this tape (page 346):

LS:But have you ever seen anything like this before?
JR:...Well, if I were to speculate, that's something that Fleet White would have, which...
LS: And why would you say that, have you ever seen anything like that?
JR: Maybe, you know, I can't - I can't remember for sure, but Fleet had, when we got, went up to get our boat ready for this Mackinaw, Mackinaw race was 300-mile race, Fleet had some special tapes, I remember white tape. And possibly I remember black duct tape'

At that time, JR was trying very hard to put FW under the 'bus'....

 

[txsvicki]

Does Police Files have more interviews than we've seen online? I almost pulled into a bookstore today to look for it.

 

[OpenMind4U]

Does Police Files have more interviews than we've seen online? I almost pulled into a bookstore today to look for it.

I didn't know that you can read this book on-line!!!...I bought my book on eBay. It's 400+ pages with interesting photo's and comments...you can buy this book (used) on eBay right now for $2-$3. This particular book I don't want to buy 'new' because I was planning to use highlighter as much as I needed...

 

[Linda7NJ]

Before I'll raise my opinion about the above 'bathing suit' approach starting at the age of FOUR, I beg you to tell me what's wrong with the above picture? And why it was OK for the strangers to attend JBR needs, wiping her butt after she've done her buisiness at the age of 6...? Patsy didn't mind! Does butt is not part which supposetly covered by the bathing suit?....Are we talking 'modesty' or 'sexual' orientation course here, at age 4?....Does the course which her friiend attended was about child safety around 'strangers', right? But PR extanded this to ALL males of her family, why? At age 4? Please correct me if I'm wrong....because culture and environment is rapidly changing and maybe it's me who don't understand.

Because Patsy is a liar? You're right, she couldn't have cared less. If she cared, she would have never allowed JonBenet to call out to whoever was around to come wipe her.

I'm convinced Patsy was lazy, inattentive and indifferent. The only thing she actually seemed to care about was showing off. She used JonBenet like a child playing with a doll when in the mood and Patsy was only in the mood when there was an audience.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[OpenMind4U]

Because Patsy is a liar? You're right, she couldn't have cared less. If she cared, she would have never allowed JonBenet to call out to whoever was around to come wipe her.

I'm convinced Patsy was lazy, inattentive and indifferent. The only thing she actually seemed to care about was showing off. She used JonBenet like a child playing with a doll when in the mood and Patsy was only in the mood when there was an audience.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You are correct!!! Thank you.

I don't want to write new post from PR interview...it made me sick reading her interview! This so call 'mother' has no idea when the last time her 6-year old baby girl had the bath, can you believe it?!!!! However, she PROUDLY announced that she 'scrab' JBR fully: cut her nails, take of highlight marks with the polish removal (?!), clean her up and down PRIOR the pageant!!!! Unfreaking (sorry) believable!!!...and some posters here asking us why we hate PR so much?!....because she's an enemy to any real mother!

 

[midwest mama]

Because Patsy is a liar? You're right, she couldn't have cared less. If she cared, she would have never allowed JonBenet to call out to whoever was around to come wipe her.

I'm convinced Patsy was lazy, inattentive and indifferent. The only thing she actually seemed to care about was showing off. She used JonBenet like a child playing with a doll when in the mood and Patsy was only in the mood when there was an audience.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm liking Patsy less and less these days! But I have to think that she was only capable of being who she had become because of her younger crazoid upbringing, combined with marriage to MR. Let's Always Make Everyone Think We Are EVERYTHING!, combined with death threat cancer requiring medical treatment that I have heard can cause 'chemo brain', which becomes irrepairable mental/emotional damage done to the brain while being subjected to heavy duty chemotherapy. JMO - and based solely on heresy!