GUILTY Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, British, tortured and murdered, Athens, 11 May 2021 *Appeal filed 2023* #5

  • #121
Oh Yes, you are right. But C also monitored B. Her friend said they spied on each other. Oh, well.

I don't think B would allow that. Maybe it was a case of C making a 'joke' about being monitored, to tell her friend, and B immediately responding that she did it to him to? You know? Remember that the only taxi C was allowed to take was the one that belonged to B's friend, but C had no idea where B spent his Sundays. She'd know, if she was allowed to monitor his phone in tit for tat. B would never tolerate that.
 
  • #122
I don't think B would allow that. Maybe it was a case of C making a 'joke' about being monitored, to tell her friend, and B immediately responding that she did it to him to? You know? Remember that the only taxi C was allowed to take was the one that belonged to B's friend, but C had no idea where B spent his Sundays. She'd know, if she was allowed to monitor his phone in tit for tat. B would never tolerate that.
Well, the only thing I know is that they were absolutely mismatched and should have never got married.
My lips also quirked (sorry) when the therapist told B: "You are older and should be wiser..." As a big sister it was a mantra during my childhood :)
 
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  • #123
I think it is a pity that C got to know B behind her parents back and did not even tell them she was getting married in Portugal. Deceit does not give you good results. C was still in the honeymoon stage of romantic love (which can last up to three years) until the last six months.
 
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  • #124
I think it is a pity that C got to know B behind her parents back and did not even tell the she was getting married in Portugal. Deceit does not give you good results. C was still in the honeymoon stage of romantic love which can last up to three years until the last six months.
Amen to that Estelle! I wouldn't put it better!
 
  • #125
Well, the only thing I know is that they were absolutely mismatched and should have never got married.
My lips also quirked (sorry) when the therapist told B: "You are older and should be wiser..." As a big sister it was a mantra during my childhood :)

C was 14 when they met and he started grooming her! That is not a mismatch, but a sick 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 grooming a young girl.
 
  • #126
  • #127

In fact, the couple's neighbor has already testified three times before the authorities last May and June, but also on July 20.

Μάλιστα, η γειτόνισσα του ζευγαριού έχει ήδη καταθέσει τρεις φορές ενώπιον των Αρχών τον περασμένο Μάιο και Ιούνιο, αλλά και στις 20 Ιουλίου.

Ah ha! So it was the neighbor, interviewed 3 times, who is the suspected after-the-fact accomplice! (I'll see myself out...)

"A recurring dope," who heard one of the following nights coming from the couple's maisonette, alarmed the witness, who the next morning rushed to ask young Caroline about the noise. "She told me it was the baby chair that fell down the stairs. This made a special impression on me, because on the one hand the couple usually had the chair on the ground floor and on the other hand the chair is tall with legs and, if he had really fallen from the stairs, he would have logically stopped during his fall and would not have go down the whole ladder...

«Ενα επαναλαμβανόμενο ντουπ», που άκουσε κάποιο από τα επόμενα βράδια να έρχεται από τη μεζονέτα του ζευγαριού, ανησύχησε τη μάρτυρα, η οποία το επόμενο πρωί έσπευσε να ρωτήσει τη νεαρή Καρολάιν σχετικά με τον θόρυβο. «Εκείνη μου απάντησε ότι ήταν το καρεκλάκι του μωρού που έπεσε από τη σκάλα. Εμένα αυτό μου έκανε ιδιαίτερη εντύπωση, διότι αφενός το καρεκλάκι το ζευγάρι το είχε συνήθως στο ισόγειο και αφετέρου το καρεκλάκι είναι ψηλό με πόδια και, αν όντως είχε πέσει από τη σκάλα, λογικά θα είχε σταματήσει κατά τη διάρκεια της πτώσης του και δεν θα είχε κατέβει όλη τη σκάλα προς τα κάτω.

So the neighbor heard something heavy falling down the stairs. Alarmed, they asked C what happened, C made the strange excuse that the baby's high chair fell?

...The duration of the conversation and Caroline's appetite for conversation impressed me, because usually, as the caretaker of the child, she was not able to have conversations of that length with me. In fact, I stopped the discussion because I wanted to prepare something to eat, but I am sure that if I continued the discussion, it would last longer ", the witness explained.

...Η διάρκεια της συνομιλίας και η όρεξη που είχε η Καρολάιν για συνομιλία μού έκαναν εντύπωση, γιατί συνήθως, ως επιφορτισμένη με τη φροντίδα του παιδιού, δεν ήταν σε θέση να έχει συνομιλίες τέτοιας διάρκειας μαζί μου. Μάλιστα, τη συζήτηση τη σταμάτησα εγώ γιατί ήθελα να ετοιμάσω κάτι να φάω, αλλά είμαι σίγουρη πως, αν συνέχιζα τη συζήτηση, αυτή θα διαρκούσε κι άλλο», εξήγησε η μάρτυρας.

My theory on why C was so chatty with the neighbor is that C wanted to maintain a connection to somebody on the outside that day/night, b/c she feared for her life or felt scared to be alone with B. Thoughts?
 
  • #128
In fact, the couple's neighbor has already testified three times before the authorities last May and June, but also on July 20.

Μάλιστα, η γειτόνισσα του ζευγαριού έχει ήδη καταθέσει τρεις φορές ενώπιον των Αρχών τον περασμένο Μάιο και Ιούνιο, αλλά και στις 20 Ιουλίου.

Ah ha! So it was the neighbor, interviewed 3 times, who is the suspected after-the-fact accomplice! (I'll see myself out...)

"A recurring dope," who heard one of the following nights coming from the couple's maisonette, alarmed the witness, who the next morning rushed to ask young Caroline about the noise. "She told me it was the baby chair that fell down the stairs. This made a special impression on me, because on the one hand the couple usually had the chair on the ground floor and on the other hand the chair is tall with legs and, if he had really fallen from the stairs, he would have logically stopped during his fall and would not have go down the whole ladder...

«Ενα επαναλαμβανόμενο ντουπ», που άκουσε κάποιο από τα επόμενα βράδια να έρχεται από τη μεζονέτα του ζευγαριού, ανησύχησε τη μάρτυρα, η οποία το επόμενο πρωί έσπευσε να ρωτήσει τη νεαρή Καρολάιν σχετικά με τον θόρυβο. «Εκείνη μου απάντησε ότι ήταν το καρεκλάκι του μωρού που έπεσε από τη σκάλα. Εμένα αυτό μου έκανε ιδιαίτερη εντύπωση, διότι αφενός το καρεκλάκι το ζευγάρι το είχε συνήθως στο ισόγειο και αφετέρου το καρεκλάκι είναι ψηλό με πόδια και, αν όντως είχε πέσει από τη σκάλα, λογικά θα είχε σταματήσει κατά τη διάρκεια της πτώσης του και δεν θα είχε κατέβει όλη τη σκάλα προς τα κάτω.

So the neighbor heard something heavy falling down the stairs. Alarmed, they asked C what happened, C made the strange excuse that the baby's high chair fell?

...The duration of the conversation and Caroline's appetite for conversation impressed me, because usually, as the caretaker of the child, she was not able to have conversations of that length with me. In fact, I stopped the discussion because I wanted to prepare something to eat, but I am sure that if I continued the discussion, it would last longer ", the witness explained.

...Η διάρκεια της συνομιλίας και η όρεξη που είχε η Καρολάιν για συνομιλία μού έκαναν εντύπωση, γιατί συνήθως, ως επιφορτισμένη με τη φροντίδα του παιδιού, δεν ήταν σε θέση να έχει συνομιλίες τέτοιας διάρκειας μαζί μου. Μάλιστα, τη συζήτηση τη σταμάτησα εγώ γιατί ήθελα να ετοιμάσω κάτι να φάω, αλλά είμαι σίγουρη πως, αν συνέχιζα τη συζήτηση, αυτή θα διαρκούσε κι άλλο», εξήγησε η μάρτυρας.

My theory on why C was so chatty with the neighbor is that C wanted to maintain a connection to somebody on the outside that day/night, b/c she feared for her life or felt scared to be alone with B. Thoughts?
I cant imagine living like this - I mean flying chairs, yelling, broken doors. A normal person would go mad after a while.
Why do people create hell for others? Cant they just discuss things like civilized folks? Poor baby L - the therapist said she was a sad little mite. No surprise here.
 
  • #129
I am still amazed at how rapidly this marriage went downhill, it could be a record. I just don't understand how this couple, who looked so happy on their wedding day, could so quickly become so unhappy and poisonous to each other.
 
  • #130
In fact, the couple's neighbor has already testified three times before the authorities last May and June, but also on July 20.

Μάλιστα, η γειτόνισσα του ζευγαριού έχει ήδη καταθέσει τρεις φορές ενώπιον των Αρχών τον περασμένο Μάιο και Ιούνιο, αλλά και στις 20 Ιουλίου.

Ah ha! So it was the neighbor, interviewed 3 times, who is the suspected after-the-fact accomplice! (I'll see myself out...)

"A recurring dope," who heard one of the following nights coming from the couple's maisonette, alarmed the witness, who the next morning rushed to ask young Caroline about the noise. "She told me it was the baby chair that fell down the stairs. This made a special impression on me, because on the one hand the couple usually had the chair on the ground floor and on the other hand the chair is tall with legs and, if he had really fallen from the stairs, he would have logically stopped during his fall and would not have go down the whole ladder...

«Ενα επαναλαμβανόμενο ντουπ», που άκουσε κάποιο από τα επόμενα βράδια να έρχεται από τη μεζονέτα του ζευγαριού, ανησύχησε τη μάρτυρα, η οποία το επόμενο πρωί έσπευσε να ρωτήσει τη νεαρή Καρολάιν σχετικά με τον θόρυβο. «Εκείνη μου απάντησε ότι ήταν το καρεκλάκι του μωρού που έπεσε από τη σκάλα. Εμένα αυτό μου έκανε ιδιαίτερη εντύπωση, διότι αφενός το καρεκλάκι το ζευγάρι το είχε συνήθως στο ισόγειο και αφετέρου το καρεκλάκι είναι ψηλό με πόδια και, αν όντως είχε πέσει από τη σκάλα, λογικά θα είχε σταματήσει κατά τη διάρκεια της πτώσης του και δεν θα είχε κατέβει όλη τη σκάλα προς τα κάτω.

So the neighbor heard something heavy falling down the stairs. Alarmed, they asked C what happened, C made the strange excuse that the baby's high chair fell?

...The duration of the conversation and Caroline's appetite for conversation impressed me, because usually, as the caretaker of the child, she was not able to have conversations of that length with me. In fact, I stopped the discussion because I wanted to prepare something to eat, but I am sure that if I continued the discussion, it would last longer ", the witness explained.

...Η διάρκεια της συνομιλίας και η όρεξη που είχε η Καρολάιν για συνομιλία μού έκαναν εντύπωση, γιατί συνήθως, ως επιφορτισμένη με τη φροντίδα του παιδιού, δεν ήταν σε θέση να έχει συνομιλίες τέτοιας διάρκειας μαζί μου. Μάλιστα, τη συζήτηση τη σταμάτησα εγώ γιατί ήθελα να ετοιμάσω κάτι να φάω, αλλά είμαι σίγουρη πως, αν συνέχιζα τη συζήτηση, αυτή θα διαρκούσε κι άλλο», εξήγησε η μάρτυρας.

My theory on why C was so chatty with the neighbor is that C wanted to maintain a connection to somebody on the outside that day/night, b/c she feared for her life or felt scared to be alone with B. Thoughts?

However, I did not get a sense of empathy from the neighbour.
 
  • #131
I am still amazed at how rapidly this marriage went downhill, it could be a record. I just don't understand how this couple, who looked so happy on their wedding day, could so quickly become so unhappy and poisonous to each other.

The way I see it is that B lovebombed C when he first met her and she fell for it. Narcissists operate like that - love bombing then devalue and dispose. Most young girls of 14yo would be very impressed by having a pilot of a helicopter taking an interest in her - especially if she had never had a boyfriend before. Her father was much older than her mother so the age difference may not have bothered her. Young girls are often looking for a father-figure type. C must have enjoyed the attention and was possibly envied by her girlfriends. However, she must have felt some sort of apprehension or guilt because she never disclosed this relationship to her parents. If she had, they may have been able to advise her but when she encouraged this relationship behind their backs, she was not privy to any advice that her parents may have been able to guide her about. C probably fell head over heels in romantic love with B by all his adoration and attention to her. She had probably near heard of how narcissists operate and even if she had, she would not have believed that B was one. To her mind, she believed that B really loved her. But by choosing a partner who was naive, young and inexperienced in life, once B trapped her by getting her pregnant and marrying her, C did not realise that he was trapping her into a marriage where he would gradually have more and more control over her. Initially, C perceived this to be love as many women do. Control is not love.
 
  • #132
I am still amazed at how rapidly this marriage went downhill, it could be a record. I just don't understand how this couple, who looked so happy on their wedding day, could so quickly become so unhappy and poisonous to each other.

She was a child when he started grooming her. She was 14. He was 27. They met during the Easter time of year, 2016, she wouldn't turn 15 until August of that year. This relationship was unhealthy from the start. It was not built on the foundation of two consenting adults, far from it. ...You know how it is for the cameras, we all smile, but behind the façade, ...

Initially, C perceived this to be love as many women do. Control is not love.

SBM Initially, C was a child, not a woman! We can't lost sight of the fact that a 27 year old man seduced a 14 year old. I do agree that many women and underage girls mistakenly think that control is love. You are so right that control is not love.
 
  • #133
We have been mentioning B's brother - what he did, or may have done, etc. Do we know for sure just how many brothers B has?
 
  • #134
We have been mentioning B's brother - what he did, or may have done, etc. Do we know for sure just how many brothers B has?
The family keeps very low profile.
 
  • #135
  • #136
  • #137
Does anyone have any idea of what traces this accomplice would have assisted in hiding or taking away?

The person who has close relations with the family of 20-year-old Caroline Krauts does not seem to be involved in the cold-blooded murder of her husband but in what followed the brutal murder, when the 33-year-old Anagnostopoulos was trying to hide his traces and convince pan-Hellenic that Caroline was the victim of a heinous murderous robbery.

According to the experienced police officers handling the case, it is considered certain that the 32-year-old pilot had an accomplice, not during the commission of the horrible crime but after… in order to "erase" the traces that would betray his horrific act.

https://lapolitica.gr/ραγδαίες-εξελίξεις-για-το-έγκλημα-στα-3/
 
  • #138
Also what do you think fell down the stairs?

"A recurring dope," who heard one of the following nights coming from the couple's maisonette, worried the witness, who the next morning hurried to ask young Caroline about the noise. "She told me it was the baby chair that fell down the stairs. This made a special impression on me, because on the one hand the couple usually had the chair on the ground floor and on the other hand the chair is tall with legs and, if it had really fallen from the stairs, it would have logically stopped during its fall and would not have go down the whole ladder. This is my thought, which I did not share with Caroline, as I did not question the answer she gave me ".

Γλυκά Νερά: Συγκλονιστική νέα μαρτυρία - «Άκουγα τους καβγάδες και τα ντουπ...» - TheCaller
 
  • #139
Also what do you think fell down the stairs?

"A recurring dope," who heard one of the following nights coming from the couple's maisonette, worried the witness, who the next morning hurried to ask young Caroline about the noise. "She told me it was the baby chair that fell down the stairs. This made a special impression on me, because on the one hand the couple usually had the chair on the ground floor and on the other hand the chair is tall with legs and, if it had really fallen from the stairs, it would have logically stopped during its fall and would not have go down the whole ladder. This is my thought, which I did not share with Caroline, as I did not question the answer she gave me ".

Γλυκά Νερά: Συγκλονιστική νέα μαρτυρία - «Άκουγα τους καβγάδες και τα ντουπ...» - TheCaller
I think it was probably something being used to bash the door. I think I remember reading the door was repaired.
 
  • #140
Does anyone have any idea of what traces this accomplice would have assisted in hiding or taking away?

The person who has close relations with the family of 20-year-old Caroline Krauts does not seem to be involved in the cold-blooded murder of her husband but in what followed the brutal murder, when the 33-year-old Anagnostopoulos was trying to hide his traces and convince pan-Hellenic that Caroline was the victim of a heinous murderous robbery.

According to the experienced police officers handling the case, it is considered certain that the 32-year-old pilot had an accomplice, not during the commission of the horrible crime but after… in order to "erase" the traces that would betray his horrific act.

https://lapolitica.gr/ραγδαίες-εξελίξεις-για-το-έγκλημα-στα-3/
The place was scrubbed with bleach supposedly by the robbers to clean the evidence.
As for flying things - pieces of furniture thrown in fury I suppose.
 

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