GUILTY Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, British, tortured and murdered, Athens, 11 May 2021 *Appeal filed 2023* #5

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I had a lot of negative thoughts about this therapist early on but her testimony is powerful and seems truthful.

As for Babis, he is one of many narcissistic controlling wife killers, but he is among the worst I've read about. The killing of the dog and putting the baby on top of her dead mommy...there are no words. He is despicable!

Justice for Caroline and Roxy!!!
 
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From above link:

Ms. Mylonopoulou was "🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬" in her testimony for the 34-year-old defendant, talking about a manipulative man, who confined his wife inside the house and controlled her finances, while expressing the view that she suffers from narcissistic disorder. Characteristically in her testimony (which lasted about 6 hours) she stated that as soon as she saw on TV what had happened, she immediately suspected that it was not a robbery after murder, but a homicide.

She added, in fact, that in her initial testimony, a few days after the murder, she had not told the whole truth because she was afraid for her life, due to the fact that B. Anagnostopoulos was free, however, in consultation with the Police, she verbally expressed her concerns to two men of ELAS, whom she named.

Threats

In fact, she stated that she had received threats half an hour after she had left the GADA building. "At 9 I left and at 9:30 I received a phone call from the defendant's environment (s.s .: he also named a specific person) and he asked me if I had testified. We closed and I informed the policeman. He reassured me that the phone call was random. Two days later, my colleague and I started receiving anonymous phone calls with threats such as "if you do not do what is right, I will kill you." My colleague left because she was afraid to work. Everything has been submitted to the Authorities. I continued to have an excellent relationship with the accused because I did not know where I was involved. During that time I found my car engraved from end to end. "I put in private custody, I went through everything."

Rain of questions

As expected (after asking a number of questions to 4 of the 6 witnesses of the previous trial), B. Anagnostopoulos asked questions to E. Mylonopoulou for more than an hour, asking for specific examples that show that he was cutting off his wife.

Defendant: A man who seeks to start and continue these sessions, how is it possible for you to describe him as a man who wants to cut off his "victim"? Isn't that a big contradiction? How do you justify it?

Witness: The first contradiction is that Caroline is dead in a grave and the accused is alive in front of me.

President: What he is asking you is: Would you not reveal to the victim that she is being manipulated?

Witness: The people who manipulate and the manipulative spouses want to show that they do everything. It does not impress me. This image he wanted to pass. This is an effort for the whole social environment to have an excellent opinion.

Defendant: Where does Caroline's general attempt to exclude me come from?

Witness: I do not know what was going on behind the door of her house. I know what Caroline was telling me. She told me that she was locked in the house with a child, she had no activity. What she did, she did with her husband, that's what she told me.

Defendant: She had a girlfriend in Athens, they had contact every day and once a week for a living. She had contact with her mother by phone and with the neighbour. She came to Athens, he was not cut off by anyone. Both witnesses testified that she had daily outings. Where did she tell you she was cut off from? Did she tell you from whom exactly I cut it, maliciously already? And for what reason? I want a specific example.

Witness: The cut has a very broad meaning. I talked about cutting out what Caroline described to me. When she told me that she has no money on her, she can not go anywhere, that she must be accompanied by Anagnostopoulos, that she did not have her own wallet. This is a cut.

Analytically…

B. Anagnostopoulos asked in a very detailed way about a number of issues, despite the fact that E. Mylonopoulou did not leave him any "crack" with her answers, rejecting all his allegations.

Defendant: Did my wife tell you that we, as a family that fed and neutered 30 to 40 animals and had adopted four more, that she had no money for the animals? Do you look me in the eye and say such things to me?

Witness: I'm sure of what I'm saying, because Caroline and I talked about animals and their food, because I had animals too. On this piece he was telling me about this food, that it is expensive I will not be able to get it.

Defendant: Did she tell you that I chose the cheap food?

Witness: She told me that her husband would not agree with the expensive food. I can answer the question that made me look him in the eye: I always looked him in the eye, he did not look me in the eye after the murder.

Defendant: On May 13, in your testimony you say that I was kind and protective with her. You said the same thing in your interviews afterwards. Is there anything you said that is not true?

Witness: All this was said after the discussion between us and why you were persecuted by the journalists who considered you guilty. All this was after communication and consultation between us. There was a strong emotional pressure.

Defendant: You asked me if you would go to the Police. And I told you to go, the children are very well and you have nothing to fear. Why should I tell you to go to the Police and the Press?

Witness: He was a man who made fun of me too. I also had to believe in robbery.

Defendant: In the part of studies. Did she ever tell you directly that she had no support from me after her studies?

Witness: Theory is far from practical, from saying "yes, my little girl, go" to doing it. Caroline wanted to study, but did she go to university?

The night of the murder

The accused referred to his questions even on the night of the murder.

Defendant: That night, 1:30, I was with my daughter in the living room, I went upstairs twice to ask her to sleep together. Does this suit a manipulator?

Witness: You wanted to get something and you wanted it at the time. I had told him that when there was tension let her go. He went upstairs while the girl was sleeping…

Defendant: You do not answer.

Witness: This is your interpretation.

Defendant: During the whole time we were together, in our weekly meetings we made a lot of effort. Haven't you seen from me sincere love for my wife all this time? That I want my marriage to work, I want everything to be fine?

Witness: This is how he appeared, but what he said in relation to Caroline's reports was far from clear. I avoided being the one who took her life. I have a son her age!

Defendant: Did Caroline ever tell you that she misses my love? That I do not give as much love to her?

Witness: There is a very typical phrase: "It was a kind of love that drowned". Those were her words.

For the mother

At the trial, which will continue on May 10, a friend of Caroline's mother testified, explaining the reasons why Susan Krauts will not be able to be present in court: "She would like to be here as much as anything else. today, but can not stand. She is very angry with the accused and the doctors told her to avoid it. She can not face him not only because he killed her child, but also put her grand daughter on her body. He played all this theater for 37 days. He had told me "imagine, the monster not only took me to choose the coffin, but even made me pay for it. "On the day of the funeral, I gave him 2,000 euros."
 
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From above link:

Ms. Mylonopoulou was "🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬" in her testimony for the 34-year-old defendant, talking about a manipulative man, who confined his wife inside the house and controlled her finances, while expressing the view that she suffers from narcissistic disorder. Characteristically in her testimony (which lasted about 6 hours) she stated that as soon as she saw on TV what had happened, she immediately suspected that it was not a robbery after murder, but a homicide.

She added, in fact, that in her initial testimony, a few days after the murder, she had not told the whole truth because she was afraid for her life, due to the fact that B. Anagnostopoulos was free, however, in consultation with the Police, she verbally expressed her concerns to two men of ELAS, whom she named.

Threats

In fact, she stated that she had received threats half an hour after she had left the GADA building. "At 9 I left and at 9:30 I received a phone call from the defendant's environment (s.s .: he also named a specific person) and he asked me if I had testified. We closed and I informed the policeman. He reassured me that the phone call was random. Two days later, my colleague and I started receiving anonymous phone calls with threats such as "if you do not do what is right, I will kill you." My colleague left because she was afraid to work. Everything has been submitted to the Authorities. I continued to have an excellent relationship with the accused because I did not know where I was involved. During that time I found my car engraved from end to end. "I put in private custody, I went through everything."

Rain of questions

As expected (after asking a number of questions to 4 of the 6 witnesses of the previous trial), B. Anagnostopoulos asked questions to E. Mylonopoulou for more than an hour, asking for specific examples that show that he was cutting off his wife.

Defendant: A man who seeks to start and continue these sessions, how is it possible for you to describe him as a man who wants to cut off his "victim"? Isn't that a big contradiction? How do you justify it?

Witness: The first contradiction is that Caroline is dead in a grave and the accused is alive in front of me.

President: What he is asking you is: Would you not reveal to the victim that she is being manipulated?

Witness: The people who manipulate and the manipulative spouses want to show that they do everything. It does not impress me. This image he wanted to pass. This is an effort for the whole social environment to have an excellent opinion.

Defendant: Where does Caroline's general attempt to exclude me come from?

Witness: I do not know what was going on behind the door of her house. I know what Caroline was telling me. She told me that she was locked in the house with a child, she had no activity. What she did, she did with her husband, that's what she told me.

Defendant: She had a girlfriend in Athens, they had contact every day and once a week for a living. She had contact with her mother by phone and with the neighbour. She came to Athens, he was not cut off by anyone. Both witnesses testified that she had daily outings. Where did she tell you she was cut off from? Did she tell you from whom exactly I cut it, maliciously already? And for what reason? I want a specific example.

Witness: The cut has a very broad meaning. I talked about cutting out what Caroline described to me. When she told me that she has no money on her, she can not go anywhere, that she must be accompanied by Anagnostopoulos, that she did not have her own wallet. This is a cut.

Analytically…

B. Anagnostopoulos asked in a very detailed way about a number of issues, despite the fact that E. Mylonopoulou did not leave him any "crack" with her answers, rejecting all his allegations.

Defendant: Did my wife tell you that we, as a family that fed and neutered 30 to 40 animals and had adopted four more, that she had no money for the animals? Do you look me in the eye and say such things to me?

Witness: I'm sure of what I'm saying, because Caroline and I talked about animals and their food, because I had animals too. On this piece he was telling me about this food, that it is expensive I will not be able to get it.

Defendant: Did she tell you that I chose the cheap food?

Witness: She told me that her husband would not agree with the expensive food. I can answer the question that made me look him in the eye: I always looked him in the eye, he did not look me in the eye after the murder.

Defendant: On May 13, in your testimony you say that I was kind and protective with her. You said the same thing in your interviews afterwards. Is there anything you said that is not true?

Witness: All this was said after the discussion between us and why you were persecuted by the journalists who considered you guilty. All this was after communication and consultation between us. There was a strong emotional pressure.

Defendant: You asked me if you would go to the Police. And I told you to go, the children are very well and you have nothing to fear. Why should I tell you to go to the Police and the Press?

Witness: He was a man who made fun of me too. I also had to believe in robbery.

Defendant: In the part of studies. Did she ever tell you directly that she had no support from me after her studies?

Witness: Theory is far from practical, from saying "yes, my little girl, go" to doing it. Caroline wanted to study, but did she go to university?

The night of the murder

The accused referred to his questions even on the night of the murder.

Defendant: That night, 1:30, I was with my daughter in the living room, I went upstairs twice to ask her to sleep together. Does this suit a manipulator?

Witness: You wanted to get something and you wanted it at the time. I had told him that when there was tension let her go. He went upstairs while the girl was sleeping…

Defendant: You do not answer.

Witness: This is your interpretation.

Defendant: During the whole time we were together, in our weekly meetings we made a lot of effort. Haven't you seen from me sincere love for my wife all this time? That I want my marriage to work, I want everything to be fine?

Witness: This is how he appeared, but what he said in relation to Caroline's reports was far from clear. I avoided being the one who took her life. I have a son her age!

Defendant: Did Caroline ever tell you that she misses my love? That I do not give as much love to her?

Witness: There is a very typical phrase: "It was a kind of love that drowned". Those were her words.

For the mother

At the trial, which will continue on May 10, a friend of Caroline's mother testified, explaining the reasons why Susan Krauts will not be able to be present in court: "She would like to be here as much as anything else. today, but can not stand. She is very angry with the accused and the doctors told her to avoid it. She can not face him not only because he killed her child, but also put her grand daughter on her body. He played all this theater for 37 days. He had told me "imagine, the monster not only took me to choose the coffin, but even made me pay for it. "On the day of the funeral, I gave him 2,000 euros."

Wow that is so crazy that the defendant can directly question the witnesses like that! This only happens in the US when the defendant acts as their own counsel. It just seems so wrong!
 
  • #489
Wow that is so crazy that the defendant can directly question the witnesses like that! This only happens in the US when the defendant acts as their own counsel. It just seems so wrong!

I agree. I wonder what his solicitor's role is then? Did he prepare his questions?
 
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From above link:

Caroline's father added: ’I understand that Babis parents will appear for the defence to swear that their son is the finest human being that ever walked the earth.

‘They still believe in his complete innocence and that Caroline was killed by a gang.’

I had thought previously that his brother and mother had turned against Babis. However, his father is probably supporting him. I will be very interested in what his family has to say about him.
 
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Wow that is so crazy that the defendant can directly question the witnesses like that! This only happens in the US when the defendant acts as their own counsel. It just seems so wrong!
I dont think we can say that another country's system is wrong or crazy.
It is simply different.
 
  • #492
I wouldn't say that the Greek system is wrong, and though it's new to me, it does make some sense IMO.

Some actually might say that it's fair that the person on trial gets to question the witnesses.

I dont think we can say that another country's system is wrong or crazy.
It is simply different.
 
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I dont think we can say that another country's system is wrong or crazy.
It is simply different.

Yes of course, you are right. Please accept my apology - I let my anger and sadness over this murder and contempt for this man unfairly malign an entire system, which was certainly not my intent.
 
  • #495
Yes of course, you are right. Please accept my apology - I let my anger and sadness over this murder and contempt for this man unfairly malign an entire system, which was certainly not my intent.
:)
In fact, I like this system.

3 professional Judges mean less legal mistakes.

4 Jurors are representatives of Society.

Direct conversation with the defendant can resolve some issues/ambiguities at once.

For me it seems to be "direct" justice.

But, after all, Greece is the cradle of Democracy.
 
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Maybe the questioning by Babis of witnesses is considered pre-trial. They say the trial will begin on May 22 when his solicitor may run the case then.
 
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Maybe the questioning by Babis of witnesses is considered pre-trial. They say the trial will begin on May 22 when his solicitor may run the case then.
Really?
22nd May??
How strange!
 
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