Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, 11 May 2021 #2 *ARREST*

[MsBetsy]

Eeek. The birth of a child is when the fairytale ends and reality sets in!

“While having a baby is often portrayed as a 'happy ever after' scenario in many romantic stories, the reality of becoming parents can put a huge strain on relationship. New research has found a fifth of couples break up during the 12 months after welcoming their new arrival.”
A fifth of parents break-up in the year after having a baby | GoodtoKnow

This news won’t shock many parents: Having a kid puts a sudden, drastic strain on a marriage, according to new research from the University of Denver.
For 90 percent of couples, marital bliss dives within a year after the birth of their first child.

Couples who were the most romantic before children got the “biggest jolt at baby time”

“Declines are somewhat normal in marriage,” Stanley said. “For those having children, they are going to be more concentrated around the time that you have children.”

Study: Marital bliss plummets after birth of first child

Well, that's just one study so I'm not sure 90% is an accurate portrayal of all marriages. It also doesn't indicate how long the problems lasted or what the specific problems were. It's true that the first baby can cause stress in the marriage but I was referring to the first couple of months in particular that is the happiest time for many couples. It's usually not until around 6-9 months that couples report feeling a strain on the marriage.

Also, wanting a child and not being able to get pregnant can be just as stressful.

If Caroline had postpartum depression then that would certainly add to any problems they had. It doesn't appear she was treated by a doctor or psychologist so we really don't know what her diagnosis or symptoms were.

It can also cause problems in the marriage if one partner wants a baby and the other doesn't. We don't know if that plays a role but it can certainly lead to feelings of resentment.

The biggest clues to me that the relationship is important to LE come from the therapist, LE, and from Babis himself.

The "therapist" is reportedly a crucial person of interest and provided useful information to investigators. Babis claimed he spent three days with police giving them information. Clearly they are looking very carefully into the dynamics of the marriage and for any problems they may have had.

Whatever they have found they seem to be keeping close to the vest. I hope there's an update soon. They are only about a month into the investigation and we may not hear anything until they have a solid lead or make an arrest.

IMO

 

[Dotta]

No, not you Dotta.
I meant people who have a ritual of removing their rings and putting them together in a saucer in their living room.

OCD. Obessive Compulsive Disorder. Even more so that both people do it and put the rings on the same saucer. It just seems odd to me.

 

[Dotta]

Caroline apparently had depression, which seems to be being downplayed by her husband, and the woman who provided "treatment". I don't understand her repeated emphasis of Caroline's happiness. I would not describe a person with depression as happy, or place emphasis on it. From personal experience I can say that there is no test that can determine the origins of depression or differentiate between post-natal depression, and depression. I take the remarks of the "psychologist" with a grain of salt, because she thinks it was admirable that the couple attended all the sessions together and did not look behind that, or attempt to treat Caroline as an individual, and she professes to know that a wife always in the company of her husband, who arranged the consultations for her, most probably dependent on him, did not hide anything about her marriage. If Caroline was always smiling that could also be a sign that she masked her feelings.

Caroline was away from her familiar environment and her friends and family, and had reportedly expressed feelings about isolation. Her life had changed completely from teenager at school to being a mum and living in suburbia, and during lockdown with a husband who was out at work. The "psychologist" doesn't appear to have known about her (reported) feelings about the new plot of land.

I don't think the close proximity of the murder to the date the contract for the land was signed should be overlooked. It absolutely could have triggered a crisis point for Caroline feeling trapped, and she had a therapist who had seemingly bonded with her husband, IMO.



The psychologist had described Caroline as "a very happy girl" who was always accompanied to the sessions by her loving husband

She told local media that the couple had "no issues in their relationship."

‘Woman-hating Albanian’ monster hunted over burglary murder of Brit, cops say


"They always came together. Caroline had no girlfriends, her friends were in Alonissos

She wanted my advice because she was a little anxious

Babis was very supportive at all and to continue her studies. They always came together and did not hide anything "

She had told me everything, she was talking about her happiness. She wanted to build her house, to house her happiness.

"Psychologists look behind the smiles and understand what is fake or true. Caroline had no problem, I say with complete certainty. She had no issue in her relationship with her husband."

Ψυχολόγος Καρολάιν: Μόνο τα καλύτερα έχω να πω για το ζευγάρι - Τι μου έλεγε η κοπέλα

• Officers have quizzed psychologist treating Caroline for post-natal depression

Caroline Crouch murder: Police quiz couple's psychologist | Daily Mail Online

Exactly! A bubbly teen was suddenly plunged into isolation and immediate pregnancy (1st was a miscarriage according to therapist) and then another pregnancy (with Lydia). "Kept barefoot and pregnant" comes to mind...

 

[tayaway]

Well, that's just one study so I'm not sure 90% is an accurate portrayal of all marriages. It also doesn't indicate how long the problems lasted or what the specific problems were. It's true that the first baby can cause stress in the marriage but I was referring to the first couple of months in particular that is the happiest time for many couples. It's usually not until around 6-9 months that couples report feeling a strain on the marriage.

Also, wanting a child and not being able to get pregnant can be just as stressful.

If Caroline had postpartum depression then that would certainly add to any problems they had. It doesn't appear she was treated by a doctor or psychologist so we really don't know what her diagnosis or symptoms were.

It can also cause problems in the marriage if one partner wants a baby and the other doesn't. We don't know if that plays a role but it can certainly lead to feelings of resentment.

The biggest clues to me that the relationship is important to LE come from the therapist, LE, and from Babis himself.

The "therapist" is reportedly a crucial person of interest and provided useful information to investigators. Babis claimed he spent three days with police giving them information. Clearly they are looking very carefully into the dynamics of the marriage and for any problems they may have had.

Whatever they have found they seem to be keeping close to the vest. I hope there's an update soon. They are only about a month into the investigation and we may not hear anything until they have a solid lead or make an arrest.

IMO

I agree with you on everything except when the stress of the relationship started. Maybe it was when the 29 or 30 year old male started to aggressively pursue the 16 year old teenaged girl, to the point that he'd fly his helicopter to the island every weekend, or show up at her school events? We know that her bestie and the fake psychologist thought it was a fairytale romance, but what did Caroline herself feel about it? Did she ever have alone time with her bestie once things got serious with B? What were the dynamics like with C and her prince charming? Did her mother think it was great a rich guy flew to see her so often or did she find it strange that a grown adult was pursuing her 16 year old child? Yes, later, C went from normal teenage activities with friends to only her husband, new baby, and puppy for companionship. She didn't even have the acquaintance of other new mothers in her area. Why?

Unrelated question: Why did the fake psychologist say that C was excited about building the new house in the more isolated region when MSM reported that she didn't want to move there?

 

[Dotta]

Μπάμπης Αναγνωστόπουλος: Τι φανερώνει η γλώσσα του σώματος. Ανάλυση συνεντεύξεων του [video]

 

[Winterbells]

When she went to events with her girlfriends, he would surprise her by showing up and joining them.

[snipped by me]
Of course this could be seen as romantic/caring/attentive etc etc.
There can be a dark side to it though.
Just my general observation of course.

 

[Winterbells]

Yes, I also once had a fairytale romance and needed therapy to manage it.

Unfortunately, as many of us know I'm sure, if it feels like a fairy tale, it probably IS a fairy tale, right?

 

[Winterbells]

If I was a man living my fairytale, but my princess said she'd had enough of it, and wanted her freedom back, I wonder how I'd react.

Well, statistics show that many of the women who're killed by their partners or ex partners are killed because they were trying to break free of them.

 

[Winterbells]

I am wondering if B and C ever had friends come for lunch or dinner, and if they could tell us anything about B's relationship with the dog.

ie. whether he was irritated by its habit of poo-ing on the floor, perhaps?
Just speculating, of course.

 

[Winterbells]

this part also caught my attention:

after describing the money missing from the Monopoly box in the living room, B says "also in the living room we had a porcelain little plate where we'd leave on it our (wedding) rings. I presume that they stole those too."

(my translation) /end of translation

So their wedding rings, that important symbol of their love and marriage, are now missing. Hmm . . .

Oh? I thought the Monopoloy box was in the basement?

I did notice he wasn't wearing a ring in his two interviews.

 

[Lola68]

I don’t think the close proximity of the murder to the date the contract for the land was signed should be overlooked. It absolutely could have triggered a crisis point for Caroline feeling trapped, and she had a therapist who had seemingly bonded with her husband, IMO.

snipped by me

I totally agree the timing is significant. And if the robbery was planned because of inside info re the sale of land, and the perps had been watching the couple, they would have struck before the sale went ahead. Unless they’re complete amateurs (but let’s not forget that they managed to find all the cameras and remove the memory cards, and not leave a trace of DNA at the scene, which sounds like a pretty sophisticated operation to me - just a few days too late)
JIMO

 

[Lola68]

I imagine C would be pretty preoccupied with a baby and a puppy. Do we know if she went back to her studies after her daughter was born? Or were they on hold? The psychologist said B was supportive of her studies (not that I have much confidence in anything she said) but I don’t recall any mention of how/when she might return, especially if they were moving to an area that was even more isolated IMO

 

[Winterbells]

Exactly! A bubbly teen was suddenly plunged into isolation and immediate pregnancy (1st was a miscarriage according to therapist) and then another pregnancy (with Lydia). "Kept barefoot and pregnant" comes to mind...

Thanks @Dotta for mentioning the miscarriage. I knew I'd read that somewhere, but just couldn't find it, so I wondered if I was imagining things. Have you got any easy way to link the source of that detail please?

 

[Dotta]

Thanks @Dotta for mentioning the miscarriage. I knew I'd read that somewhere, but just couldn't find it, so I wondered if I was imagining things. Have you got any easy way to link the source of that detail please?

Therapist said it but in which article????

 

[Lola68]

I wonder if the decision to have a baby was mutual (or even planned). I’m sure C loved her daughter very much, but can see how she might feel trapped. Equally, the reality of having a new baby is that you have very little time or energy for your relationship - as others have said, it can just as easily drive a couple apart even if they thought it would bring them closer together IMO

 

[Winterbells]

Therapist said it but in which article????

Don't worry. It's hard locating articles, I know.
The fact is, you and I have both read it somewhere. We can't both have imagined it

 

[Winterbells]

I wonder if the decision to have a baby was mutual (or even planned). I’m sure C loved her daughter very much, but can see how she might feel trapped. Equally, the reality of having a new baby is that you have very little time or energy for your relationship - as others have said, it can just as easily drive a couple apart even if they thought it would bring them closer together IMO

Impossible to get much done with a new baby.
Cleaning up after animals, for example.
That would be annoying to someone else who perhaps didn't love animals.
Just saying...

 

[Dotta]

Impossible to get much done with a new baby.
Cleaning up after animals, for example.
That would be annoying to someone else who perhaps didn't love animals.
Just saying...

By the way, why was the poor doggie kept in a CAGE??? A pet should sleep snoring happily in a comfy little bed/basket ect.

 

[Lola68]

By the way, why was the poor doggie kept in a CAGE??? A pet should sleep snoring happily in a comfy little bed/basket ect.

I don't know much about dogs, but puppies can sleep in a crate when quite young, also when training. I imagine with a young baby you wouldn't want the dog roaming around freely at night until it was fully trained.

 

[tayaway]

By the way, why was the poor doggie kept in a CAGE??? A pet should sleep snoring happily in a comfy little bed/basket ect.

The puppy was a Husky mix. They crated him at night, which is quite common among medium/large dog owners. Trained from a young puppy, they most often feel secure in their crate. My related experience: both my parents were animal trainers (dogs, horses, ...).