Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, 11 May 2021 #2 *ARREST*

[MsBetsy]

I wasn't aware that they left fingerprints behind?
I also wasn't aware that LE knows anything about the route they took when they left, unless you're referring to the car and the motorbike caught on cctv driving along the road at around the time it's estimated that they left? I didn't think LE had conclusively linked those vehicles to the crime?

Yes, one article said there were fingerprints and that they were testing the body and clothing for DNA evidence. I think it was the same source that said they had surveillance footage of the route they took. They may not have confirmed it was them, but believe it was the suspects based on the timeframe. There has also been a lot of misinformation so it's hard to tell what is fact. I think it was the same article in which LE said they were looking for criminals that had been recently released from prison? Maybe the DM? Anyway, they seem to think the four involved have a criminal history.

 

[MsBetsy]

What external surveillance camera are you talking about? I must have missed sth

I'm not sure. In the DM article on the first page of the thread it just says one of the men broke a surveillance camera outside. It doesn't indicate whether it's a home security camera or not.

 

[Dotta]

There were reportedly 6-8 interior cameras (but no exterior cameras). There were no memory cards in the cameras, when LE came to the scene, according to LE.

There are various types of internal cameras. Some must be unscrewed to take the memory card out (did they use a screwdriver?), some dont need this, but just pushing an element of the camera to remove the card.

 

[Dotta]

I'm not sure. In the DM article on the first page of the thread it just says one of the men broke a surveillance camera outside. It doesn't indicate whether it's a home security camera or not.

Aha, there was also a report about a "look out" man who was smoking - but who saw him???

 

[Patrick Jane]

Yeah, I would think a pillow would take longer than something like a plastic bag. Was the autopsy report released or just the cause of death?

The autopsy report hasn't been released. We have Greek media reports about what the medical examiner supposedly said. And we have statements from LE about cause of death.

 

[MsBetsy]

Aha, there was also a report about a "look out" man who was smoking - but who saw him???

Yes, I would think whoever disabled the camera would have been captured on camera right before he disabled it, so there would be footage of him.

 

[Patrick Jane]

There are various types of internal cameras. Some must be unscrewed to take the memory card out (did they use a screwdriver?), some dont need this, but just pushing an element of the camera to remove the card.

Based on how LE is talking about, it sounds like it's a more involved process then just pushing to remove the card. So maybe they need to be unscrewed as you suggest.

 

[Patrick Jane]

I'm not sure. In the DM article on the first page of the thread it just says one of the men broke a surveillance camera outside. It doesn't indicate whether it's a home security camera or not.

Yes, I would think whoever disabled the camera would have been captured on camera right before he disabled it, so there would be footage of him.

These early media reports of CCTV have never been confirmed by LE.

The official word from LE is, even a month later, that there is no CCTV (that has yet been found) which would confirm the presence of alleged perpetrators.

 

[MsBetsy]

The autopsy report hasn't been released. We have Greek media reports about what the medical examiner supposedly said. And we have statements from LE about cause of death.

Thanks. I was wondering if the autopsy report was public information in Greece or if they needed permission from the family. The final autopsy report isn't complete yet, is it? It usually takes 6-8 weeks in the US for DNA and toxicology testing. I'm curious about any DNA found on the body or clothing.

 

[Patrick Jane]

Thanks. I was wondering if the autopsy report was public information information in Greece or if they needed permission from the family. The final autopsy report isn't complete yet, is it? It usually takes 6-8 weeks in the US for DNA and toxicology testing. I'm curious about any DNA found on the body or clothing.

Another thing I'm curious about is what was C suffocated with. Was it a pillow? A sheet? Something else? Obviously LE isn't saying.

 

[MsBetsy]

These early media reports of CCTV have never been confirmed by LE.

The official word from LE is, even a month later, that there is no CCTV (that has yet been found) which would confirm the presence of alleged perpetrators.

Oh, okay, thank you. The article made it sound like they got their information from LE. It was probably the DM. They don't seem to do much fact checking.

 

[MsBetsy]

Another thing I'm curious about is what was C suffocated with. Was it a pillow? A sheet? Something else? Obviously LE isn't saying.

A pillow would probably be the easiest thing.

 

[Dotta]

A pillow would probably be the easiest thing.

But it was reported she had a gag - cloth in her mouth

 

[MsBetsy]

There were reportedly 6-8 interior cameras (but no exterior cameras). There were no memory cards in the cameras, when LE came to the scene, according to LE.

Yeah, I thought it was very strange that the burglars would know where all the cameras were to remove the memory cards. Did B give an explanation for that? I wonder where the initial information came from that they disabled a camera outside and a fourth man stood guard. I thought it was repeated in several articles. If it came from the husband, how did he know there was one man outside?

 

[Patrick Jane]

But it was reported she had a gag - cloth in her mouth

I don't know if that's been confirmed, as it might be a mistranslation. Can you or someone else post the original Greek?

I seem to recall the Greek articles saying that the suffocation was consistent with a cloth or cloth-like material being used, which I would interpret as being consistent with a pillow.

We also have media reports of B's supposed statements to LE, in which he said she was turned (by the alleged perpetrator) face down towards the pillow or sheet, from which I made the inference that she was likely murdered face down. I made this inference also because LE has repeatedly told us that no DNA was found on her nails.

 

[MsBetsy]

But it was reported she had a gag - cloth in her mouth

She would still be able to breathe through her nose, so something else was probably used in addition to that.

 

[Dotta]

She would still be able to breathe through her nose, so something else was probably used in addition to that.

I still remember the report - a gag and the perp put a hand on her mouth and nose (because she was supposedly screaming)

 

[Patrick Jane]

I still remember the report - a gag and the perp put a hand on her mouth and nose (because she was supposedly screaming)

Was it an English-language report? Or were you reading a translation? Was it a very early report? Or a recent one?

 

[Tortoise]

She would still be able to breathe through her nose, so something else was probably used in addition to that.

I believe it was reported that her nose was closed by a hand. I pictured it as her nostrils being pinched with fingers and her mouth covered by the palm.

 

[Tortoise]

Was it an English-language report? Or were you reading a translation? Was it a very early report? Or a recent one?

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