Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, 11 May 2021 #2 *ARREST*

[Winterbells]

She's being investigated for both her fraud and as a POI in C's murder case. This is why we can freely discuss EM here now.

Ah, ok. I didn't realise that had been make clear.
I thought that as she's a POI in an inquiry, we were permitted to freely discuss her.

Surely the only way the fake doc could be linked to the inquiry would be if she had some knowledge of who commited the crime or was somehow involved in the crime, right? There are probably other ways that I haven't thought of, of course. But I mean, we could all find ourselves being 'treated' by a fake doc and then end up being robbed (and worse) but just because the doc was fake wouldn't mean h/she was involved?
Faking professional credentials does seem to be a criminal matter in Greece, so I can see why she's become a POI in an inquiry into her professional status, but I'm not sure I've seen it stated that she's a POI in terms of the robbery + murder crime itself.

 

[tayaway]

Ah, ok. I didn't realise that had been make clear.
I thought that as she's a POI in an inquiry, we were permitted to freely discuss her.

Surely the only way the fake doc could be linked to the inquiry would be if she had some knowledge of who commited the crime or was somehow involved in the crime, right? There are probably other ways that I haven't thought of, of course. But I mean, we could all find ourselves being 'treated' by a fake doc and then end up being robbed (and worse) but just because the doc was fake wouldn't mean h/she was involved?
Faking professional credentials does seem to be a criminal matter in Greece, so I can see why she's become a POI in an inquiry into her professional status, but I'm not sure I've seen it stated that she's a POI in terms of the robbery + murder crime itself.

She is a POI in C's murder case. I assume that LE are checking, as you note, into whether she is part of a larger robbery operation, like, she gets the confidence of her clients and if she hears about money etc... she passes it along to the thieves. If she was only being investigated for her fraud, we would've had to start a separate thread for her.

 

[tayaway]

Vima: LE have questions, including:

* Why are there no signs of struggle on the body or traces of genetic material on the 20-year-old's nails?
* Why did they press her head for four to five minutes while with one or two minutes of pressure she would faint?
* Why didn't they take the couple's cell phones with them or destroy them?...

* Why didn't the perpetrators bring a roll of adhesive tape or other material to tie the tenants?
* Why is only the memory card missing from the home camera?
* Why did the neighbors not hear voices?

 

[Winterbells]

Thanks, @tayaway
I felt it was a bit ambigous, (i.e. in what inquiry she's a POI) but found this way back in the thread:

The article also states that the psychologist is a person of interest to El.As (Greek Police)

"EL.AS officers They emphasize that this lady is an "object of investigation" and "is a person who is of interest to the authorities and should be investigated".

Police officers are continuing to investigate the possibility of inside information of the perpetrators of the robbery and murder of 20-year-old Caroline about the financial situation of the family. In this context, they will investigate, if the specific woman had inadvertently given her in some way, relevant information, which may have ended up with the unscrupulous perpetrators."

 

[MsBetsy]

Sorry, I'm just sighing because we still don't appear anywhere with this case. It's like a sigh of defeat. Is the murderer behind door #1? No. Is there a lead behind door #2? Are there any leads? No?

The inquiry did indeed take a different turn, EM is being investigated for impersonating a professional psychologist and she's a POI in C's murder. Bet EM wished she'd taken an online course on how to control her ego! This has to be the only good to come of this tragedy so far!

Yes, apparently police said she was an important POI and gave them crucial information. But if she's found guilty of fraud her testimony could turn out to be useless because she may not be considered a credible witness.

I did find out that in accordance to Greek law, Police do not publicly name official suspects. So we probably won't find out anytime soon unless there is an arrest. I wonder if it is the same as the UK, and once they make an arrest the media is limited in what they can say? Maybe we will never learn the details of this case.

 

[tayaway]

Yes, apparently police said she was an important POI and gave them crucial information. But if she's found guilty of fraud her testimony could turn out to be useless because she may not be considered a credible witness.

I did find out that in accordance to Greek law, Police do not publicly name official suspects. So we probably won't find out anytime soon unless there is an arrest. I wonder if it is the same as the UK, and once they make an arrest the media is limited in what they can say? Maybe we will never learn the details of this case.

She's not a credible witness. As Winterbells' quote from earlier in the thread above shows, LE are looking into whether she was the source of info for the thieves.

 

[Winterbells]

But if she's found guilty of fraud her testimony could turn out to be useless because she may not be considered a credible witness.

(snipped by me)
Yes, but they won't just rely on her testimony, surely.
They'll look into her background, her contacts, her movements, her phone activity, her finances, etc, to see if they find any dubious links to criminal activity.

 

[MsBetsy]

She is a POI in C's murder case. I assume that LE are checking, as you note, into whether she is part of a larger robbery operation, like, she gets the confidence of her clients and if she hears about money etc... she passes it along to the thieves. If she was only being investigated for her fraud, we would've had to start a separate thread for her.

She is a POI, but not a suspect. A person of interest is anyone police are interested in talking to, who may have information about a case. Imo

 

[Winterbells]

Interesting to speculate about the lengths some fraudsters are willing to go to, to obtain large sums of money.
For example, set yourself up as a fancy therapist, target well off clients, find out what they're worth and where they stash the cash, send your pet thugs to get the money using any means possible ... and boom. Rich.

 

[Kittybunny]

[snipped by me]
Of course this could be seen as romantic/caring/attentive etc etc.
There can be a dark side to it though.
Just my general observation of course.

It reminds me of what Suzanne Morphew's sister said about these types of actions "We mistook control for love."

I learned the hard way that if it seems too good to be true, that's because it is. The lovebombing phase is hard to resist, but when it's over...the fairytale becomes a nightmare.

I am speaking only in generalities of course.

 

[MsBetsy]

(snipped by me)
Yes, but they won't just rely on her testimony, surely.
They'll look into her background, her contacts, her movements, her phone activity, her finances, etc, to see if they find any dubious links to criminal activity.

Did LE say they were investigating her in connection to the murder? I thought they were investigating her for practicing without a license.

 

[tayaway]

She is a POI, but not a suspect. A person of interest is anyone police are interested in talking to, who may have information about a case. Imo

Maybe you are confusing POI with potential witness?

MerriamWebster definition of POI: a person who is believed to be possibly involved in a crime but has not been charged or arrested

 

[MsBetsy]

Interesting to speculate about the lengths some fraudsters are willing to go to, to obtain large sums of money.
For example, set yourself up as a fancy therapist, target well off clients, find out what they're worth and where they stash the cash, send your pet thugs to get the money using any means possible ... and boom. Rich.

There is no evidence that she is connected to the burglars, though. How do we know she sent them to Caroline's home? Was she linked to any of the other burglaries?

 

[Winterbells]

She is a POI, but not a suspect. A person of interest is anyone police are interested in talking to, who may have information about a case. Imo

The wording is "object of investigation" and "a person who is of interest to the authorities and should be investigated".
Not sure of the exact meaning of 'object of investigation'. Should be 'subject' really, but still.

Anyway, here's an American guide to the terminology, which helps, a bit.
Understanding the Difference Between a Suspect, Person of Interest, Target, and Subject

 

[Winterbells]

There is no evidence that she is connected to the burglars, though. How do we know she sent them to Caroline's home? Was she linked to any of the other burglaries?

I was speculating in general, just giving a hypothetical example of one way to fleece people of their money.

 

[Winterbells]

It reminds me of what Suzanne Morphew's sister said about these types of actions "We mistook control for love."

I learned the hard way that if it seems too good to be true, that's because it is. The lovebombing phase is hard to resist, but when it's over...the fairytale becomes a nightmare.

I am speaking only in generalities of course.

Completely agree.
I like that expression 'love bombing'.
It's addictive as well.

 

[Winterbells]

Did LE say they were investigating her in connection to the murder? I thought they were investigating her for practicing without a license.

See my post #664 a little way back - it clarifies that she is indeed a POI in connection to CC's murder.

 

[Kittybunny]

On second thought, I suppose if you had 6-8 interior cameras in your house, you could keep a good eye on your guests and see if they were messing with your Monopoly box . . . hmm

Was it ever explained why they had so many cameras inside the house? I understand having a baby monitor or two but 6 or 8 cameras seems excessive. Was someone keeping an eye on someone else when they weren't home? Hmmm...

 

[MsBetsy]

Maybe you are confusing POI with potential witness?

MerriamWebster definition of POI: a person who is believed to be possibly involved in a crime but has not been charged or arrested

No. A POI is a Person of Interest in an investigation. They may or may not be a suspect. Anyone police are interested in speaking to who may have information about a case would be a POI. In every case I've followed LE has explained it this way. They "could" be a suspect, but it doesn't necessarily mean they are. It's meant to avoid public speculation of an innocent person. I would assume it's the same in Greece, otherwise why would they not even reveal a suspect's name?

Has LE said they believe she is connected to the murder in some way? The only statement I've seen by the police is that she was able to provide crucial information, not that she herself may be involved. Imo

 

[Winterbells]

No. A POI is a Person of Interest in an investigation. They may or may not be a suspect. Anyone police are interested in speaking to who may have information about a case would be a POI. In every case I've followed LE has explained it this way. They "could" be a suspect, but it doesn't necessarily mean they are. It's meant to avoid public speculation of an innocent person. I would assume it's the same in Greece, otherwise why would they not even reveal a suspect's name?

Has LE said they believe she is connected to the murder in some way? The only statement I've seen by the police is that she was able to provide crucial information, not that she herself may be involved. Imo

See post #664

The article also states that the psychologist is a person of interest to El.As (Greek Police)

"EL.AS officers They emphasize that this lady is an "object of investigation" and "is a person who is of interest to the authorities and should be investigated".

Police officers are continuing to investigate the possibility of inside information of the perpetrators of the robbery and murder of 20-year-old Caroline about the financial situation of the family. In this context, they will investigate, if the specific woman had inadvertently given her in some way, relevant information, which may have ended up with the unscrupulous perpetrators."