Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, 11 May 2021 #3 *ARREST*

[mrjitty]

Now Im reading that C's parents want EXCLUSIVE custody of baby L. Good!

I think there is nothing to be alarmed about here - it's just that the wheels of Family Law grind slowly.

* I am no greek law expert but here are some principles which apply most places*

We need to keep in mind the difference between custody and guardianship

Legal custody lay with B as the surviving custodial parent. In practice, given he is in jail, he no longer has physical custody. An application to the Family Court will typically be required to transfer legal custody to someone else. Obviously that will tend to be granted in such as case, provided the Court is satisfied the applicants meet the relevant criteria. That would end B's rights to custody, even where he later comes out of jail.

That leaves questions around guardianship. What rights does B have to input into decisions in the child's life?

I suspect it is likely the Court would also revoke his Guardianship rights, and appoint C's parents as the legal guardians.

In such a case, B would have no legal rights in respect of the child in future. Involvement would have to be agreed to, or he would have to go to Court.

 

[Wishingwell]

His sheer arrogance and the amount of suffering he has caused to his wife and family is beyond comprehension.
He controlled and manipulated his wife, and is trying to do the same with both the LE and the public. I wish that he could have no contact with his daughter but I doubt that will happen, unfortunately.
Caroline Crouch's 'killer' husband will argue she provoked him into 'blind rage'

 

[Dotta]

I think there is nothing to be alarmed about here - it's just that the wheels of Family Law grind slowly.

* I am no greek law expert but here are some principles which apply most places*

We need to keep in mind the difference between custody and guardianship

Legal custody lay with B as the surviving custodial parent. In practice, given he is in jail, he no longer has physical custody. An application to the Family Court will typically be required to transfer legal custody to someone else. Obviously that will tend to be granted in such as case, provided the Court is satisfied the applicants meet the relevant criteria. That would end B's rights to custody, even where he later comes out of jail.

That leaves questions around guardianship. What rights does B have to input into decisions in the child's life?

I suspect it is likely the Court would also revoke his Guardianship rights, and appoint C's parents as the legal guardians.

In such a case, B would have no legal rights in respect of the child in future. Involvement would have to be agreed to, or he would have to go to Court.

I wasn't alarmed but glad that baby L wont be travelling between 2 families. Thank you for explaining everything

 

[Estelle]

I wasn't alarmed but glad that baby L wont be travelling between 2 families. Thank you for explaining everything

I guess that if B's parents had had nothing to do with Lydia since she was born, they cannot argue that they had a relationship with her and the distance between both families would make joint custody too difficult.

However, I wonder how often C's parents saw Lydia. Is she with them now?

I wonder who is going to speak on B's behalf at the trial? The only one we know about is his fellow pilot.

 

[Skigh]

Caroline Crouch murder: Photo reveals inside the flat where she was killed | Daily Mail Online

 

[Estelle]

He also recounted the story of his relationship with Caroline, saying he met her on the island of Alonissos where she had lived since childhood and where his parents owned a holiday home and which he visited as a young man. The pair began dating, fell in love, and in September 2018 they decided to get married - a celebration which took place in 2019. By that point they had already bought the house in Glyka Nera, a suburb of Athens, where the killing would take place and had been living there since June 2019.

Caroline Crouch murder: Photo reveals inside the flat where she was killed | Daily Mail Online

I had not read before that his parents owned a holiday house on the island of Alonissos where B used to holiday as a young man. I get the feeling that they do not own it now. But that was B's initial connection to that island.

I wonder if C and B's parents had met before?

So they owned the house in Glyka Nera. I wonder how much it is worth now and whether he will let it out while he is in prison or sell it? Would C's family be entitled to half the value of the house?

 

[Estelle]

Following the hearing, judges refused Anagnostopoulos's request for bail and remanded him in Korydallos prison where he arrived shortly after 8pm local time, Greek site Ta Nea reports. He was taken to a special ward of the prison out of fear for his safety, but was placed with three other inmates - one of them a prison officer serving time on drug charges.
Another of his new cellmates is serving time for smuggling, while the third is also convicted of drug offences.
Anagnostopoulos took and passed a Covid test as he was taken to jail, meaning he will not have to undergo mandatory isolation.

Caroline Crouch murder: Photo reveals inside the flat where she was killed | Daily Mail Online

 

[Estelle]

Reacting to his court testimony, the lawyer for Caroline's family rejected the claim that he had acted in the heat of the moment and without planning. 'The heat of the moment is to see your child being killed and you shooting his killer, that is, the sudden arousal of an emotion,' he said. 'There was also no erotic passion. 'People who kill in the heat of the moment surrender. They do not hide or deceive the authorities for 37 days. 'They call the police and say "I surrender", they do not hug the mother of the child who they killed and add to their hypocrisy.'

Caroline Crouch murder: Photo reveals inside the flat where she was killed | Daily Mail Online

 

[Skigh]

Following the hearing, judges refused Anagnostopoulos's request for bail and remanded him in Korydallos prison where he arrived shortly after 8pm local time, Greek site Ta Nea reports. He was taken to a special ward of the prison out of fear for his safety, but was placed with three other inmates - one of them a prison officer serving time on drug charges.
Another of his new cellmates is serving time for smuggling, while the third is also convicted of drug offences.
Anagnostopoulos took and passed a Covid test as he was taken to jail, meaning he will not have to undergo mandatory isolation.

Caroline Crouch murder: Photo reveals inside the flat where she was killed | Daily Mail Online

Interesting he has been put in with drug smugglers. Wonder if he also will end up with similar additional charges.

 

[Estelle]

Interesting he has been put in with drug smugglers. Wonder if he also will end up with similar additional charges.

That's what I was thinking.

 

[Kittybunny]

His sheer arrogance and the amount of suffering he has caused to his wife and family is beyond comprehension.
He controlled and manipulated his wife, and is trying to do the same with both the LE and the public. I wish that he could have no contact with his daughter but I doubt that will happen, unfortunately.
Caroline Crouch's 'killer' husband will argue she provoked him into 'blind rage'

yes, I completely agree. I'm not sure I have the stomach to follow the rest of this process anymore given that I think the system seems to be tilted in his favor, and his attorney and him seem to be somewhat successful in reducing his culpability in the eyes of the public because a few people here are already thinking either Caroline is at fault or provoked him, or there's some big scary mob boss behind the murderer, and therefore B is not really responsible, he had no choice. Give me a break.

Whereas in my opinion he is just a cold blooded sociopath narcissistic wife killer, like many before him. No big mystery here.

 

[Winterbells]

That would be my guess. He gave the impression that he was afraid she was going to hurt the baby, or take the baby, yet he also said she told him she didn't want the baby. At one point he said he wanted the three of them to sleep in the bed. We may never know all the details, but I believe he made a conscious decision to kill her before removing the memory card. I think now he's claiming he didn't remove it and flush it until later.
Imo

I got the impression that the part about C not wanting the baby was written during her pregnancy, not after the baby was born, i.e. 'I don't want this baby (I'm carrying inside me)'. I could be wrong, of course.

 

[Skigh]

Brit mum wrote diary in CODE to secretly record abuse by killer husband

 

[Estelle]

Brit mum wrote diary in CODE to secretly record abuse by killer husband

In this article above, it says:

Anagnostopoulos will claim the killing was not pre-meditated and instead he entered a "blurred" state of mind as a result of her being "verbally and physically aggressive towards him".

If he is somehow able to convince the court then he could have his sentence cut to a maximum of 15 years.

I have read many different estimations of how long B may spend in prison before but this is the longest estimation.

 

[Kemug]

How true!!! And was the name CAROLINE ever mentioned?

Well, you know, he's probably so broken-hearted and traumatised that he just can't bear to. On the other hand . . . .

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I bet he might be expecting to get time cut off the sentence for his "bravely saving the baby"

 

[MsBetsy]

I got the impression that the part about C not wanting the baby was written during her pregnancy, not after the baby was born, i.e. 'I don't want this baby (I'm carrying inside me)'. I could be wrong, of course.

That's also true but that wasn't what I meant. I should have clarified that I was referring to his description of events the night of the murder.

In his pre-apology he stated he left L in the bed with Caroline, then she woke up and started shouting because he had brought the "little one" and did not let her sleep. He said she threw the baby in the crib and said, "I told you I did not want her here, I will do whatever I want," etc.

Then he said he took the baby downstairs and described how he was worried she might kill L if he wasn't there.

This is why I do not believe the Mirror is correct that C only slept for 6 minutes before he suffocated her. That would support his story that he killed her in a fit of rage. The evidence shows there was a longer period of time between the physical argument and the murder.

It's also a reason I brought up the battered person defense. In order to prove innocence, the defendant must show that they believed their life or their child's life was in danger.

Only in this case, the defendant is projecting all of his actions onto the victim and it appears to be the other way around. It was Caroline's life that was in danger. It very well could have been the baby's life, too.

Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

In this article above, it says:

Anagnostopoulos will claim the killing was not pre-meditated and instead he entered a "blurred" state of mind as a result of her being "verbally and physically aggressive towards him".

If he is somehow able to convince the court then he could have his sentence cut to a maximum of 15 years.

I have read many different estimations of how long B may spend in prison before but this is the longest estimation.

Yes, he's trying to convince the court it was a crime of passion. Hence the "boiled soul" comment, or whatever it was. It reminded me of what we sometimes call the "heat of passion." Imo

 

[untidyfurrows]

This is why I do not believe the Mirror is correct that C only slept for 6 minutes before he suffocated her.

IMO the Mirror was just doing some very lazy reporting here. Following the link to the report, the coroner does say that C was asleep 7 minutes before he started killing her, at 3:58am. It doesn't say that that's when she fell asleep though: in fact it says that the coroner considers she was asleep from 1:41 to 3:51am, as well as at 3:58am, indicating that C was probably asleep the whole time from 1:41 to 4:05am.

 

[Skigh]

Animal welfare group release picture of puppy that Caroline Crouch's killer strangled | Daily Mail

How could he harm such an innocent ,beautiful dog in cold blood.

I detest him.