Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, Murdered, Athens, May 11, 2021

[jimbob5]

According to the Tunnel's website, it appears that the perps did a middle of the night test run a few days before. I imagine they cover this in the actual show, but I've only watched the black car segment, don't speak Greek, and couldn't access subtitles.

"Residents of the area talk to “Tunnel” about strange movements a few days before the heinous crime in the maisonette in Glyka Nera.

“I was listening to a motorbike the previous days, which was standing for a few seconds at the corner of Parodos with Panagouli street. They drove around the block, returned and left. It gave me the impression that it was a big one. I did not see anything, I was just listening, because it was late, around two in the middle of the night”, said a resident of the area.
...
Another witness, who lives near the house of the tragic couple, spoke on the show about what had happened a few days earlier.

“We were also targeted. The bell rang twice at four o’clock in the morning. They were plowing the area fifteen to twenty days earlier. Someone would come and look on a bike, going slowly and wearing a jacket hood so that his features would not be visible.”"

All very odd, who is going answer their door at 4 AM? Why would these people be attracting attention themselves & allowing nosey neighbours etc to possibly get licence plates, vehicle & person/clothing descriptions of them by behaving so obviously?

 

[jimbob5]

Maybe when they ring the bell, they're seeing if anybody is home? Here, small time robbers will knock/ring the bell during the daytime to see if anybody's home before they break in and steal small things.

Yet, we are led to believe this lot knew there was large sums of cash inside the house, why would they be randomly ringing doorbells at 4 in the morning & doing dry runs for such piddling amounts as they got? Why would small time thieves be torturing somebody for 40 plus minutes & then killing them & the dog-while leaving living witnesses? The only way I can see this being anything other than a paid for hit is if they had been told there were astronomical sums of money in the house & would not accept there wasn't & ended up going too far-but again shoving something in somebodies gullet to where they suffocate is calculated, not a frenzy of violence that would see a strangulation or a knife attack.

 

[Dotta]

Wealthy areas are usually packed with cctv cameras all over the place (roads, doorbell cams, external house cams). Rich people invest in over the top security systems. Money is kept at banks and valuables also in safes in banks. The whole area is usually fenced with security officers. Who would like to die for a few bucks?

 

[jimbob5]

These weren't exactly petty criminals though. And why didn't they break in to the house after ringing the doorbell twice? Because the residents indicated they were home? (the people who said someone rang the doorbell twice at 4am a few days previously)

If we follow that logic, they rang the doorbell of B and C's house and they didn't answer (because they were asleep in the attic), so the burglars thought the house was empty and broke in. Although surely the dog would have barked if the doorbell rang?

(not saying this didn't happen, just trying to follow through different scenarios)

Seems highly implausible though-unless you are a young partier, or a very early shift worker then the chances of you being anything other than asleep in your home at 4 AM is zero. While this is a good time to burgle, it is a terrible time to be making any noise either when you get in, or by knocking or ringing at the door.

 

[tayaway]

That the thieves were casing places, doing dry runs, ringing doorbells... It comes across as a jumbled mess. Here, our banking is pretty stable, so we don't have to keep large amounts of cash at home, so it's only small time perps. In Greece, where they do apparently keep cash in home, especially in wealthier neighborhoods like C and B's, it's almost like they'd be sitting ducks. A few other commentators here already noted that they'd have alarm systems if they lived in that area and who knows why they didn't, maybe it never crossed their mind?

 

[Happygolucky123]

Numerous MSM are reporting that the psychologist has provided "crucial evidence", e.g. Caroline Crouch murder: Police quiz couple's psychologist | Daily Mail Online

But B disagrees.

Νέα μαρτυρία ξετυλίγει το κουβάρι της δολοφονίας της Καρολάιν - Τα καυτά ερωτήματα και η αντίδραση του πιλότου | in.gr
Speaking on the show "Light in the Tunnel", the 32-year-old seemed particularly annoyed by the report to the psychologist that his wife was visiting.

In a communication he had with Angeliki Nikolouli, among other things, he stated: "I really do not know who thought that the psychologist we went to after my wife gave birth had anything to do with the robbery. I have heard speculations and speculations, but that our psychologist will help to find the perpetrators, is by far the most invalid ".

Bolded for focus... this is interesting. It’s not the robbery they are investigating, but rather the murder. Seems Babis is distancing. If he was truly interested in solving his wife’s murder, he’s be open to any Avenue being investigated. MOO

 

[jimbob5]

That the thieves were casing places, doing dry runs, ringing doorbells... It comes across as a jumbled mess. Here, our banking is pretty stable, so we don't have to keep large amounts of cash at home, so it's only small time perps. In Greece, where they do apparently keep cash in home, especially in wealthier neighborhoods like C and B's, it's almost like they'd be sitting ducks. A few other commentators here already noted that they'd have alarm systems if they lived in that area and who knows why they didn't, maybe it never crossed their mind?

This case strikes me as she was the target & whoever ordered the hit on her wanted her to suffer. Physically the male occupant-the most likely to cause physical problems for them is not hurt, the child is not hurt physically, although will carry mental/emotional scars for life-the woman is tortured for a prolonged period & then suffocated in a deliberate fashion. It seems the most likely scenario that any cash & jewels in the house were part payment/cover for the real motive-to torture her & eventually kill her. I have come across several cases like this in true crime literature & shows. I am finding it hard to believe that having got 25 grands worth of stuff they would be prepared to escalate to murder & leave live witnesses-you just went from probably a year in jail to life in jail for nothing.

It would also be interesting to know if this property is detached or not-if the latter than it is hard to see how these robbers shouting for an hour or so & the occupants shouting/screaming/begging for mercy & a woman being tortured, a dog being murdered & then put on on public display & probably a child crying, while a fourth robber stands guard outside with a gun would not attract any neighbours attention.

 

[tayaway]

SBM

It would also be interesting to know if this property is detached or not-if the latter than it is hard to see how these robbers shouting for an hour or so & the occupants shouting/screaming/begging for mercy & a woman being tortured, a dog being murdered & then put on on public display & probably a child crying, while a fourth robber stands guard outside with a gun would not attract any neighbours attention.

You can get the lay of the land from this Tunnel clip on youtube. It's in Greek, but the visuals are what you want here.

 

[Dotta]

If police is indeed focusing on earlier convicted mafia men, then the case must be connected with a mafia matter (debts, drugs etc) not a simple robbery. It might explain perfect clearance of any incriminating evidence (and theatrical hanging of a dog - a warning?). Mafia men are professionals. Just speculating.

 

[jimbob5]

You can get the lay of the land from this Tunnel clip on youtube. It's in Greek, but the visuals are what you want here.

Great find, it does look possible that is is remote enough for nearby properties not to hear anything.

 

[jimbob5]

Is it some kind of big development going on there? The homes look very nice, but a lot of it looks like a major construction site.

 

[Polly Graf]

Is it some kind of big development going on there? The homes look very nice, but a lot of it looks like a major construction site.

The neighbour apparently heard the dog barking and surely they killed that first, yet they didn’t hear any of what followed….

The 4am door ringing could possibly be to see how quickly occupants react at that time of night but it still seems very odd and totally contradicts the robbers knowing they had cash in the house!

Of course if you had been planning a murder in Athens, the sensible thing to do would be to make it look as much like the recent home invasions as possible…

 

[Dotta]

The neighbour apparently heard the dog barking and surely they killed that first, yet they didn’t hear any of what followed….

The 4am door ringing could possibly be to see how quickly occupants react at that time of night but it still seems very odd and totally contradicts the robbers knowing they had cash in the house!

Of course if you had been planning a murder in Athens, the sensible thing to do would be to make it look as much like the recent home invasions as possible…

It all looks very carefully planned - premeditated in every small detail.

 

[Skigh]

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[MsMiniSleuth]

Bolded for focus... this is interesting. It’s not the robbery they are investigating, but rather the murder. Seems Babis is distancing. If he was truly interested in solving his wife’s murder, he’s be open to any Avenue being investigated. MOO

Has he ever referred to her by her name?

 

[Dotta]

Well, we can speculate as much as we can but, in fact, we know nothing. The public is given only snippets of conflicting info (red herrings I suspect). The truth is only known to LE officers who lead the investigation and are typically tight lipped. The truth will come out during trial.

 

[Winterbells]

Maybe when they ring the bell, they're seeing if anybody is home? Here, small time robbers will knock/ring the bell during the daytime to see if anybody's home before they break in and steal small things.

But they didn't ring Babis's bell. Just broke in anyway.

 

[dotr]

If police is indeed focusing on earlier convicted mafia men, then the case must be connected with a mafia matter (debts, drugs etc) not a simple robbery. It might explain perfect clearance of any incriminating evidence (and theatrical hanging of a dog - a warning?). Mafia men are professionals. Just speculating.

One scenario could be that it is in fact a mafia hit, but one intended to make the survivor (the husband) suffer but leave him physically uninjured, possibly to keep him alive for future endeavors of some kind?
speculation, imo.

 

[Polly Graf]

One scenario could be that it is in fact a mafia hit, but one intended to make the survivor (the husband) suffer but leave him physically uninjured, possibly to keep him alive for future endeavors of some kind?
speculation, imo.

Mhmm, don’t forget how useful a helicopter pilot might be in that scenario!
MOO

 

[Dotta]

I wonder why the robbers didn't bring knives instead of guns (which seems to me were fake because never used in 2 deaths: girl's and dog's).