Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, tortured and murdered, Athens, 11 May 2021 #4 *ARREST*

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  • #81
Yeah, I couldn't remember the exact amount but it seemed like he borrowed the majority of it. They still would have had a significant payment on the mortgage. I guess none of that matters now since it will probably be sold and someone else will end up building on it.

The block of land cost 55,000 euros and the building was going to cost 190,000 euros.

He paid 5,000 euros, C's mother paid 50,000 euros, borrowed 160,000 euros and his and C's parents were giving the extra 30,000 euros.

With the way the media has been carrying on, I suspected that B was able to pay all the 245,000 euros from the proceeds of his crimes!

But I am still wondering what Stavros and B were up to. Perhaps both. An illicit affair (Stavros was not married) and B was going to have a half share in Stavros new business!
 
  • #82
Firstly, I wonder how often they saw each other in the dating days. He was living in Athens and his family was no longer living on the island. Perhaps B got to know C's parents as C's father used to be a pilot, I think so would have had a lot in common. C's mother being a Filipino would have been very hospitable so B probably stayed with them on his visits and she treated B as a son. B would have had a good idea of how wealthy C's parents were from his visits and played on that later. They had a beautiful daughter so they may have encouraged the relationship. But if C was living at home, there was not probably a seuxal relationship going on until around the time she got pregnant. I would predict that none of them expected them to marry when C was so young - until she got pregnant. I think B probably enjoyed his short visits but also he could return to Athens to continue his other illicit relationship/s there. On the surface, it appears that B chose C because she was young and he thought he could control her but I think that C had fallen romantically in love with him otherwise she would have used protection. Perhaps B felt trapped and obliged to marry C when she fell pregnant and offered to do the right thing to please her parents. If B, in fact, is a closet gay, perhaps he agreed so that his homsexuality was hidden in a respectable marriage and wanted to have a child. But I doubt that B ever loved C. I think she loved him more than he ever loved her but she did not realise that until after the marriage. I think C's mother's generosity to B with giving him money is the result of being grateful for B marrying C as she was pregnant. When C realised B did not love her and he only married her because she was pregnant, she was too ashamed to tell anyone and gradually fell out of love with him concentrating instead on her baby and the domestic violence began as both felt neglected by the other. If their sex life was minimal, C could have become suspicious that he had another lover and eventually found out that he did. C threatened to tell people about it so B installed the security cameras and told her not to tell anyone as he would find out if she did. So C accepts the situation. Perhaps they agree to stay together until Lydia is older. I think she could have told the priest that B is gay.

But from media reports, there seems to be another layer to this. Not only has C found out that B is a either a closet gay or is having an affair with perhaps someone in his professional circles, she found out that he is involved in organised crime of some sort so that is something she cannot accept so demands a divorce. B realises that C is now a threat and tells bis moral accomplice who demands that C's life is ended or his own life will be.

Currently, that is how I see it by trying to interpret the latest reports in the media.



I just wonder if B was worried about C going off to University and mixing with boys of her own age so encouraged the pregnancy as a reason to get her parents to agree to them getting married.
 
  • #83
apparently LE is investigating SD's death as a crime (which would mean a murder) and not a suicide:

Η υπόθεση της δολοφονία της 20χρονης Καρολάιν από τον σύζυγό της στα Γλυκά Νερά, φαίνεται ότι έγινε «οδηγός» για την υπόθεση του θανάτου του επιχειρηματία Σταύρου Δογιάκη, ο οποίος αποδόθηκε σε αυτοκτονία.
The case of the murder of the 20 year old Caroline by her husband in Glika Nera, appears to be "the driver" in the case of the businessman SD, which had been attributed to suicide.

(my translation)

Τι αποκαλύπτει εγκληματολόγος για τον θάνατο Δογιάκη | in.gr

Stavros was happy but his mood changed in five days.
 
  • #84
Stavros was happy but his mood changed in five days.

If SD was murdered and there's a good B & SD connection, then surrounding B with a team of twenty S.W.A.T. members and taking him out of the prison's general population makes sense.
 
  • #85
I just wonder if B was worried about C going off to University and mixing with boys of her own age so encouraged the pregnancy as a reason to get her parents to agree to them getting married.

I don't think that was the case as I read that C was going to University from when she was living with B but she only lasted 4 months probably due to being. pregnant again. I do not see B as a married man. from what I've read he was the bachelor type. IMO B only married C because she was pregnant.
 
  • #86
If SD was murdered and there's a good B & SD connection, then surrounding B with a team of twenty S.W.A.T. members and taking him out of the prison's general population makes sense.

Yes and that's why there was an urgency to arrest B.

I read that Stavros and B often used to go on helicopter flights together.
 
  • #87
B said from prison "It's like being at home" was the phrase conveyed to the Star by a prison man for the 33-year-old.

Yesterday, Thursday, the pilot underwent a psychiatric examination, other examinations by doctors will follow and he has requested some books.

His parents have not testified
According to STAR, three "key" people in the case of Caroline's murder have not yet testified to the authorities, despite the fact that their cell phones are being asked to be removed.

They are the mother, father and brother of the murderer. They will certainly be summoned by the investigator in charge of the investigation. It has also been requested that their telephone communications be removed both one month before the crime and one month after.

His parents have not testified According to STAR, three "key" people in the case of Caroline's murder have not yet testified to the authorities, despite the fact that their cell phones are being asked to be removed. They are the mother, father and brother of the murderer. They will certainly be summoned by the investigator in charge of the investigation. It has also been requested that their telephone communications be removed both one month before the crime and one month after.
 
  • #88
I don't think that was the case as I read that C was going to University from when she was living with B but she only lasted 4 months probably due to being. pregnant again. I do not see B as a married man. from what I've read he was the bachelor type. IMO B only married C because she was pregnant.


If B was in a gay relationship and/ or involved in crime he might have wanted marriage as a cover,as well as the bonus of wealthy in laws.
There is one thing going to university as a young single girl as opposed to the married mother of a young baby.
 
  • #89
Did he have a life insurance policy for C?
 
  • #90
I do not think that C was pregnant when she got married. The marriage was July 2019 and we know from the alleged diaries that the miscarriage was in or around November 2019 which is about right as would’ve had the miscarriage occuring in the first trimester. We know that baby L was born in June 2020 which which would have made her about 2/3 months premature which again is about rigjt in terms of dates as we heard from the alleged psychiatrist was a big cause of anxiety for C as she was small for her age.

the fact that C friend did not know about C being pregnant until the day before is because in Greek culture there is a big worry about evil eye - so because of the earlier miscarriage she was worried about telling people she was pregnant again in case it was jinxed

Moo
 
  • #91
The block of land cost 55,000 euros and the building was going to cost 190,000 euros.

He paid 5,000 euros, C's mother paid 50,000 euros, borrowed 160,000 euros and his and C's parents were giving the extra 30,000 euros.

With the way the media has been carrying on, I suspected that B was able to pay all the 245,000 euros from the proceeds of his crimes!

But I am still wondering what Stavros and B were up to. Perhaps both. An illicit affair (Stavros was not married) and B was going to have a half share in Stavros new business!
If Caroline's parents sue for wrongful death, they may not only get back the 55,000 euros, but can also sue for pain and suffering, lost income, and loss of future income for their granddaughter.

Even if Babis is not convicted, they have a better chance in civil court because the burden of proof is lower than in a criminal case.

In criminal court, the case must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Babis and his attorney are already planting the seeds of doubt by portraying Caroline as abusive, aggressive, and a danger to their child.

In a civil case, the plaintiffs only have to provide enough evidence to prove the defendant's unlawful actions resulted in the victim's death.

Babis may not have to worry about his daughter's future after all. I think she'll do just fine without him, although neither she nor the rest of Caroline's family can ever be compensated for the loss of a mother, sister and daughter.
 
  • #92
MSM is quick to fill us in on B's life in prison and how it feels like 'home,' but do we yet know his reaction to SD's death?

Regarding the 3rd wheel in the B/C relationship, why can't B have both been seeing SD and the mature, curvy woman from his line of work? As the neighbors told it, he was rarely home with C. He can't have spent all that time flying or instructing. Sexual orientation is not rigid and compartmentalized, it's fluid, especially if B is bi. Add to that the signs that he's got some sort of malignant narcissism, which makes sex, without all the usual emotional baggage and monogamous expectations, much easier.

The idea that B married C for her family's money and also as a front for what might be a polyamorous lifestyle makes the most sense. He must've received some societal pressure to settle down or at least get a steady partner.

Where is B's money? He used what, 5 or 10K euro of his own as part of a down payment on that land and construction, or was that from C's personal savings? If B has no reserves, why? Gambling debts or the like?
 
  • #93
tanea.gr June 25

The wedding dress designer noted that their families did not want C and B to get married. She also observed that B suffocated C with attention during the changing and rehearsals, not leaving her alone for a minute. She had to shoo him out repeatedly and chalked his smothering up to the age difference and C's inexperience.

Μάλιστα με ανάρτηση της στο facebook, η γνωστή σχεδιάστρια του νυφικού της Καρολάιν εκτός από τον παραμυθένιο γάμο, κάνει λόγο και για τα πρώτα σύννεφα στη σχέση τους που ήρθαν από το οικογενeιάκο τους περιβάλλον. Όπως αναφέρει, οι δικοί τους δεν ήθελαν αυτό το γάμο, αποφασίζοντας έτσι να κλεφτούν στην Πορτογαλία σε μια ιστορία αγάπης με τα πεθερικά να εναντιώνονται όπως στις παλιές ελληνικές ταινίες.

...
Ωστόσο ο 33χρονος της έκανε εντύπωση, για την ευγένεια του, αλλά κυρίως για το γεγονός ότι ερχόταν στις πρόβες μαζί με την Καρολάιν. Ασφυκτικά δίπλα της, σε κάθε στιγμή, ακόμα και στην πρόβα του νυφικού.

«Έχω απλά ανατριχιάσει με την φρικαλεότητα του τέρατος που ερχόταν όλο γλύκα και ευγένεια, να μου λέει κιόλας ότι μέσα σε όλο τον πόλεμο από τους δικούς του με τον γάμο, είμαι από τους μόνους ανθρώπους που τόσο χαρωπά τους στάθηκα. Εξοργίζομαι με το θέατρο αυτού του κτήνους, γιατί θυμήθηκα ότι τις φορές που βρεθήκαμε, δεν την άφηνε λεπτό μόνη. Τον έδιωχνα στις πρόβες μας έξω, με χιούμορ βέβαια, αλλά ήθελε να είναι μέσα σε όλα ο Μπάμπης. Ήταν τόσο κόλακας που μου έφερνε και καφεδάκι! Δικαιολόγησα την συμπεριφορά, σκεπτόμενη την διαφορά ηλικίας τους και την απειρία του κοριτσιού! Κρίμα που διαπιστώνουμε πως από ένα τέρας προκαλείται τόση δυστυχία» συμπλήρωσε η σχεδιάστρια.
 
  • #94
Perhaps a put down of Caroline.

Being with her was like being in prison. She told him what to do.
She was like his prison warder. Until one day he just couldn't take it any more.

He's working away inside, trying to damage her reputation, bit by bit.





B said from prison "It's like being at home" was the phrase conveyed to the Star by a prison man for the 33-year-old.
 
  • #95
Perhaps a put down of Caroline.

Being with her was like being in prison. She told him what to do.
She was like his prison warder. Until one day he just couldn't take it any more.

He's working away inside, trying to damage her reputation, bit by bit.
Ugh.
 
  • #96
I honestly dont think that B and this guy SD were romantically involved :) The thought made me laugh :) They were friends and possibly partners in some business (dodgy or not). The Greek men take their male friendships very seriously, they talk about all important big boys matters and dont include women into their issues. They are a bit like Turkish men in this respect. As for C and Souda house. I read A/T K said C was treated as a tool in obtaining it because of her British passport. As a British citizen it might be rented to her more easily than a Greek one.
 
  • #97
  • #98
apparently LE is investigating SD's death as a crime (which would mean a murder) and not a suicide:

Η υπόθεση της δολοφονία της 20χρονης Καρολάιν από τον σύζυγό της στα Γλυκά Νερά, φαίνεται ότι έγινε «οδηγός» για την υπόθεση του θανάτου του επιχειρηματία Σταύρου Δογιάκη, ο οποίος αποδόθηκε σε αυτοκτονία.
The case of the murder of the 20 year old Caroline by her husband in Glika Nera, appears to be "the driver" in the case of the businessman SD, which had been attributed to suicide.

(my translation)

Τι αποκαλύπτει εγκληματολόγος για τον θάνατο Δογιάκη | in.gr

From the same article:

“The men of the Police are conducting a preliminary investigation into the death of Stavros Dogias, they have come in contact with the relatives and friends of the 53-year-old and what they are interested in is to see if there is something behind his decision to end his life and whether there was any pressure or persons that led the entrepreneur to this decision.”

So not necessarily saying he was ‘murdered’ by another’s hand but that someone forced or pressured him into pulling the trigger IMO
 
  • #99
<modsnip> how do they know so much about the couple's relationship and that CC was the abuser, as it has been said they will testify?
It doesn't appear they were close, any knowledge of abuse they have seems would be heresay, told to them by their murdering son, not witnessed.
I wonder how long CC's parents will be able to continue an amicable relationship with them if Babis' parents blame their daughter for her own murder?
<modsnip>
How will their attempt to sheild Babis' from punishment for his actions play out in the things they tell her as she grows up?
<modsnip>

"Susan and David had no suspicions at all when they hugged Anagnostopoulos at a memorial service for Caroline last Wednesday – hours before his confession."

"Liverpool born David, 78, said his daughter was ‘not just academically brilliant, she was also a wonderful sportswoman’.
He added: ‘From learning to swim at an early age, she went on to qualify as a scuba diver in open water diving – her only disappointment being that she couldn’t gain her instructors certificate because she was under eighteen at the time.
She competed in 10km road races here on the island and could run the legs off most of the boys of her age. A keen kick-boxer, she terrified the life out of me – although I can say, hand on heart, in all our time together we never had a cross word.’"


Greek pilot accused of killing British wife wears bulletproof vest in court
 
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  • #100
I honestly dont think that B and this guy SD were romantically involved :) The thought made me laugh :) They were friends and possibly partners in some business (dodgy or not). The Greek men take their male friendships very seriously, they talk about all important big boys matters and dont include women into their issues. They are a bit like Turkish men in this respect. As for C and Souda house. I read A/T K said C was treated as a tool in obtaining it because of her British passport. As a British citizen it might be rented to her more easily than a Greek one.
That's why there's a closet.
Even some Turkish men love men
 
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