Greece - Caroline Crouch, 20, tortured and murdered, Athens, 11 May 2021 #4 *ARREST*

[Winterbells]

Moo..people will use words as an insult the meaning is just to antagonize ..nothing to do with facts. I as a female have used the ' don't be such a bi*ch' on men quite often.. I enjoy the moment they are speechless for a minute..moo

haha, good one.
But these were her written words, which kind of makes a difference (to me anyway).

 

[Winterbells]

I've been round the block a few times, lol, had my fair share of relationships with men, and the accompanying slanging matches, but never have I ever felt a desire to throw in a homophobic insult whilst I'm at it. I'm deeply ashamed to admit I might have said on occasion 'omg, stop being such a woman'....
(sorry sisters).

 

[Patrick Jane]

It's the homophobic part, obviously, that I'm focussed on and I just can't imagine anyone including that bit gratuitously. Fine, if she felt like calling him a 'dirty old man/creep/perv/paedo' for example... given that he had no business dating a child... but to include the offensive and specifically gay slur is really noticeable to me. Sorry to bang on about this, but if he is gay/bisexual/pansexual/a cross dresser or whatever, ordinarily, who cares, but it's extremely relevant to this investigation, as it could be his reason for needing to shut down anyone who might expose him if it's something he wants or feels he needs to keep secret/private.
I can't spell it out, but I assume we are both talking about the same vile word here? And it is prejudicial. Totally. And it's not just something that comes spilling out in anger (I don't believe) unless one has reason to feel betrayed/angered/lied to on the basis of one's partner's sexuality.

I'd have to see the context to be sure how to interpret it. It could be taken literally to mean "old [slur for homosexuals]" or it could mean "that frigging* wimp/wuss**." That's my take on it, but other translators might have different views.

*frigging: used here in place of the swear sword, to keep things clean, pursuant to the board rules
**wimp/wuss: doesn't have the masculine qualities, not a "real man", weak, cowardly

 

[Winterbells]

I'd have to see the context to be sure how to interpret it. It could be taken literally to mean "old [slur for homosexuals]" or it could mean "that frigging* wimp/wuss**." That's my take on it, but other translators might have different views.

*frigging: used here in place of the swear sword, to keep things clean, pursuant to the board rules
**wimp/wuss: doesn't have the masculine qualities, not a "real man", weak, cowardly

The Mail reckoned the expression started with 'dirty old', so that would suggest the slur wasn't a version of wuss. Omitting the word 'dirty' makes a big difference I'd say. When I entered the Greek expession into google translate it just gave me 'old' and 'fa*', so I don't know where the Mail got 'dirty' from, but they went on to suggest it was with reference to their age difference (as in 'dirty old man').
It's very complicated.
And who knows if it's even true?

 

[MsBetsy]

It's the homophobic part, obviously, that I'm focussed on and I just can't imagine anyone including that bit gratuitously. Fine, if she felt like calling him a 'dirty old man/creep/perv/paedo' for example... given that he had no business dating a child... but to include the offensive and specifically gay slur is really noticeable to me. Sorry to bang on about this, but if he is gay/bisexual/pansexual/a cross dresser or whatever, ordinarily, who cares, but it's extremely relevant to this investigation, as it could be his reason for needing to shut down anyone who might expose him if it's something he wants or feels he needs to keep secret/private.
I can't spell it out, but I assume we are both talking about the same vile word here? And it is prejudicial. Totally. And it's not just something that comes spilling out in anger (I don't believe) unless one has reason to feel betrayed/angered/lied to on the basis of one's partner's sexuality.

Yes, I think it's possible her anger could have come from a sudden realization that she was betrayed, but it's also possible that her anger stemmed from being unhappy and dissatisfied in an abusive relationship over time.

I think we would need more information in order to determine whether Caroline had suddenly discovered something specific about her husband that shocked and angered her. All we know for sure is that the relationship was dysfunctional.

I still think the motive for the crime was his fear of losing her. He knew she was about to leave, for whatever reason, and he was not about to let that happen. Imo

 

[Dotta]

It seems nobody went to Souda. The owner of the house says he put the pic online for C or sb else to watch it. Well...

 

[MsBetsy]

I'd have to see the context to be sure how to interpret it. It could be taken literally to mean "old [slur for homosexuals]" or it could mean "that frigging* wimp/wuss**." That's my take on it, but other translators might have different views.

*frigging: used here in place of the swear sword, to keep things clean, pursuant to the board rules
**wimp/wuss: doesn't have the masculine qualities, not a "real man", weak, cowardly

Yes, I think it could also be used to describe a man as being effeminate, in order to insult them or put them down. Imo

 

[Winterbells]

This is how obsessed I am with the matter... I've found this useful website:
Greek Gay Dictionary | How to say gay in Greek | Greek Gay

 

[MsBetsy]

It seems nobody went to Souda. The owner of the house says he put the pic online for C or sb else to watch it. Well...

Really? So Caroline going to Souda with a mutual friend of theirs turned out to be a rumor? I really don't know what to believe anymore.

 

[Patrick Jane]

The Mail reckoned the expression started with 'dirty old', so that would suggest the slur wasn't a version of wuss. Omitting the word 'dirty' makes a big difference I'd say. When I entered the Greek expession into google translate it just gave me 'old' and 'fa*', so I don't know where the Mail got 'dirty' from, but they went on to suggest it was with reference to their age difference (as in 'dirty old man').
It's very complicated.
And who knows if it's even true?

The "old" part can refer literally to old. But in many swear words it's used to emphasize an insult. For example, the term παλιόσκυλο (literally "old dog") is an insult, but doesn't mean a real old dog, it's an insult that means, "friggin' ."

 

[Winterbells]

Yes, I think it's possible her anger could have come from a sudden realization that she was betrayed, but it's also possible that her anger stemmed from being unhappy and dissatisfied in an abusive relationship over time.

I think we would need more information in order to determine whether Caroline had suddenly discovered something specific about her husband that shocked and angered her. All we know for sure is that the relationship was dysfunctional.

I still think the motive for the crime was his fear of losing her. He knew she was about to leave, for whatever reason, and he was not about to let that happen. Imo

I don't think it would necessarily have to have been a sudden discovery. We don't know when that excerpt was written.

Given that the marriage wasn't a happy one, I'd be interested to know what the last straw was that drove CC to research hotels that night. And why the police noted what B was reading about online whilst lying on the sofa downstairs.

 

[Winterbells]

The "old" part can refer literally to old. But in many swear words it's used to emphasize an insult. For example, the term παλιόσκυλο (literally "old dog") is an insult, but doesn't mean a real old dog, it's an insult that means, "friggin' ."

I get that, but 'dirty'?

 

[MsBetsy]

This is how obsessed I am with the matter... I've found this useful website:
Greek Gay Dictionary | How to say gay in Greek | Greek Gay

It says it's one of the most used words in Greece to refer "disparagingly" to homosexual men. So apparently it was meant as an insult. I don't think it gives us any more insight into the relationship other than the fact she called him a name.

 

[Dotta]

"Βόμβα" από την ιδιοκτήτρια του σπιτιού στην Σούδα: "Η Καρολάιν δεν..." | KalimeraEllada.gr

Trip to Souda - Fake news?

 

[Winterbells]

The expression used (according to the Mail) had three parts.
1) Dirty
2) Old
3) Homophobic slur 'fa*

So, we can say that 'old' doesn't necessarily mean literally 'old, it can just be for emphasis, like 'you silly old sausage', and we can say 'fa*' doesn't necessarily mean gay - it might mean 'effeminate/wuss/etc', (although it seems pretty clear the word has always had homophobic connotations, original meaning was male prostitute) but if you add 'dirty' to the mix, no-one would say, or indeed write, 'the dirty old wuss'.

 

[Winterbells]

It says it's one of the most used words in Greece to refer "disparagingly" to homosexual men. So apparently it was meant as an insult. I don't think it gives us any more insight into the relationship other than the fact she called him a name.

I think it does.

 

[Winterbells]

In the face of current resistance to the idea that CC may have felt (angrily) that B was gay or bisexual, I will stop. I know it's getting boring.

 

[Patrick Jane]

The Mail reckoned the expression started with 'dirty old', so that would suggest the slur wasn't a version of wuss. Omitting the word 'dirty' makes a big difference I'd say. When I entered the Greek expession into google translate it just gave me 'old' and 'fa*', so I don't know where the Mail got 'dirty' from, but they went on to suggest it was with reference to their age difference (as in 'dirty old man').
It's very complicated.
And who knows if it's even true?

I get that, but 'dirty'?

The expression used (according to the Mail) had three parts.
1) Dirty
2) Old
3) Homophobic slur 'fa*

So, we can say that 'old' doesn't necessarily mean literally 'old, it can just be for emphasis, like 'you silly old sausage', and we can say 'fa*' doesn't necessarily mean gay - it might mean 'effeminate/wuss/etc', (although it seems pretty clear the word has always had homophobic connotations, original meaning was male prostitute) but if you add 'dirty' to the mix, no-one would say, or indeed write, 'the dirty old wuss'.

There's no word "dirty" in that phrase. The only way to get the word "dirty" would be to imply it from #3, the homophobic slur

 

[Winterbells]

There's no word "dirty" in that phrase. The only way to get the word "dirty" would be to imply it from #3, the homophobic slur

Thank you, Patrick.
Typical of the Daily Mail.
What a waste of time this has been.

 

[MsBetsy]

I get that, but 'dirty'?

It's probably like calling someone a "dirty dog." I don't think it necessarily means anything literal. Just like when people call someone a "," it doesn't have to mean the person was born out of wedlock.