Gun Control Debate #2

[human]

A quota system would be ideal:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/utah-teacher-supports-arming-teachers-guns-schools/story?id=53287677

All teachers would undergo training, but each would be allowed to say whether or not they want the responsibility to protect students. And if there are not enough. allow veterans to fill in the rest of quota.

No, just no. I am retired but have relatives and friends who are teachers.

I think it may be impossible to understand unless one is a teacher. The first thing in an active shooter situation is that the teacher must secure the room. In addition to locking doors, for me it involved climbing up on counters to pull down shades.

Then I had to make sure the students were in secure locations and keep them quiet and calm. Where does getting a gun come into play? A teacher then goes out into the hall armed with a gun looking for a shooter?

Really? The idea is so absurd and I put it in the same category as arm chair quarterback.

 

[Tawny]

No, just no. I am retired but have relatives and friends who are teachers.

I think it may be impossible to understand unless one is a teacher. The first thing in an active shooter situation is that the teacher must secure the room. In addition to locking doors, for me it involved climbing up on counters to pull down shades.

Then I had to make sure the students were in secure locations and keep them quiet and calm. Where does getting a gun come into play? A teacher then goes out into the hall armed with a gun looking for a shooter?

Really? The idea is so absurd and I put it in the same category as arm chair quarterback.

Agreed.

I think anyone advocating for arming teachers should sit in on lockdown drills and witness what they already have to do. And tbh, securing the classroom and the children within is top priority. If the classroom is secured, why would they then need to be armed? Are they expected to venture out and hunt down a shooter? It is not based in reality at all, IMO.

 

[kimlynn]

Do you feel a teacher is better off not being able to protect her/his students?

Also, how would a shooter know who is armed and who isn't in a school? Would that piece of information be made public?

As for arming teachers - maybe it is better to have a gun for protection and not use it, rather than to not have a gun, and need to use it.

Teachers already do protect the students by getting them to the safest places away from the shooter.
I don't think we should ask for more from them.
They didn't sign up to be armed guards or to shoot anyone.
The best plan is less guns in school not more. IMO

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Yet the NRA criticized youth and their parents for utilizing social media, the press, protests, talking to lawmakers ... ?

How the NRA uses an app to organize opposition to gun control
An extremely popular NRA smartphone app gamifies the act of writing Congress to shoot down gun control legislation

https://www.salon.com/2018/02/25/how-the-nra-uses-an-app-to-organize-opposition-to-gun-control

 

[Spellbound]

It's infuriating that everyone wants a ton more funding to arm teachers but there were cuts after cuts after cuts of all the education programs, supplies, and resources that didn't tangibly prevent this kind of thing. Stuff like the arts, counseling, more teachers for smaller class sizes, etc.

And then yet again, veterans are marched out like some sort of political pawn, expected to be heroes AGAIN when cut after cut after cut has been made to our healthcare.

It appears America only cares about teachers and veterans when it makes them feel better about themselves.

Slightly off topic from guns, but ....
Schools could be a part of the solution if we would stop taking funding away and vote in our millage elections. Give them better wages to draw better teachers, maybe add more trained classroom or hall monitors or security officers (whatever term yu eant them to be called), funding for better security measures such as camera and locking systems, for starters. Good lord, we have the ability to use apps with a home security system to keep an eye on our homes when we are away or see our front door from our cozy chair ... we can’t do something similar for schools?

 

[kittythehare]

Yet they've criticized youth and their parents for utilizing social media ... ?

How the NRA uses an app to organize opposition to gun control
An extremely popular NRA smartphone app gamifies the act of writing Congress to shoot down gun control legislation

https://www.salon.com/2018/02/25/how-the-nra-uses-an-app-to-organize-opposition-to-gun-control

They're running scared and so they should be.
ever growing list of companies are boycotting them which shows they are bad for corporate business.
Needs more recognition in private sector too..it's coming... a tad..

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

NRA rejects Trump's call for raising the age limit to buy rifles

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-guns-20180225-story.html

 

[human]

Agreed.

I think anyone advocating for arming teachers should sit in on lockdown drills and witness what they already have to do. And tbh, securing the classroom and the children within is top priority. If the classroom is secured, why would they then need to be armed? Are they expected to venture out and hunt down a shooter? It is not based in reality at all, IMO.

Exactly. Rather than securing the room and the children, they are getting their weapon and leaving everything else to chaos and happenstance?

Let us end this idea now by having those who propose it participate in a lockdown and then go out into the halls armed with their gun searching for the killer. It makes my blood boil

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Parkland Shooting Survivor Rips Into NRA’s Dana Loesch
“The NRA is an organization that’s completely broken,” said young activist David Hogg.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...-nras-dana-loesch_us_5a92d42be4b03b55731d2ded

 

[Spellbound]

Teachers already do protect the students by getting them to the safest places away from the shooter.
I don't think we should ask for more from them.
They didn't sign up to be armed guards or to shoot anyone.
The best plan is less guns in school not more. IMO

And don’t forget the students left alone in a classroom if the teacher leaves to encounter a gunman. They are already in fear and anxious, and need the calming presence and words of an adult to keep them from screaming or running around trying to see what may be gojng on. Don’t leave my kids unsupervised, alone and frightened, not knowing what may happen to their beloved teachers.

JMO

 

[human]

NRA rejects Trump's call for raising the age limit to buy rifles

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-guns-20180225-story.html

The NRA has framed the debate for far too long. Those that want reform have been on the defensive,

Time to turn it around. We who want reform need to take the offense. We need to press on and on why they feel death is an acceptable way of life. Death from weapons of war .

Those of us who have asked for reform for years should not feel like we are in the lower position. The bullies berate with their weapons. Time to fight mano a mano.

 

[kimlynn]

The NRA wasn't always a front for gun makers.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/opinion-young-nra-history_us_5a907fbee4b03b55731c2169

In 1871, the NRA was founded by William Church, a lawyer, and George Wingate, a former newspaper reporter. Wingate explained his new organization’s purpose as working to “promote and encourage rifle shooting on a scientific basis.”

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Poll: Americans support tougher gun laws, don't expect Congress to act

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-gun-laws-dont-expect-congress-act/371104002/

(snip) In the wake of another deadly school shooting, this time in Florida, the disconnect between public opinion and predictions of legislative inaction is sharp.

Advocates of gun control and others wonder if the outcry sparked by students who survived the shooting spree at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland might shake the political calculations that have stymied significant new limits on guns for decades.

(snip) "Right now it's a joke," said Greg Silva, 64, a retired electrical engineer from Reno, Nev., who was among those called in the poll. "If a person wants a gun they can go to a gun show and pass no checks. That's ludicrous."

Licensed dealers at gun shows are required to conduct background checks, but private sellers are not.

 

[kittythehare]

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/25/us/florida-shooting-parkland-students.html

But at night, in the blackness that recalls the dark classroom where she hid as a gunman murdered her classmates, Samara Barrack, 15, cannot stop thinking about that afternoon, when she fled through a blood-covered hallway. Samantha Deitsch, also 15, grieves a friend from journalism class. Aria Siccone, 14, who walked past the bodies of students from her last-period study hall, feels nothing sometimes. Just numbness.
“I keep having flashbacks,” Samara said. “There’s times I want to cry and can’t. There’s times I want to have fun and am hysterical.”

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

More guns in schools do not make anyone safer.

I suggest we listen to the educators — they do this every day. MOO

In #ArmMeWith movement, teachers ask to be armed -- but not with guns

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/22/politics/armmewith-twitter-teachers-guns/index.html

Teachers have taken to social media in the midst of a gun control debate following the Parkland, Florida, school shooting to push for an increase in classroom resources -- not the ability to carry guns in school.

Earlier this week, President Donald Trump suggested that some teachers be armed, calling it a "great deterrent" to mass shootings on campus.

Using the hashtag #ArmMeWith, teachers are proposing other resources they would rather be armed with, such as more funding, additional school counselors and smaller class sizes.

Olivia Bertels, a middle school English teacher in Kansas, and Brittany Wheaton, an English teacher in Utah, said they started the #ArmMeWith movement on Tuesday in response to the suggestion that more guns in schools would help make them safer.

"I went to college to educate children, not because I wanted to kill another human. If I wanted a job where I was responsible for carrying a firearm, I would have taken a different career path," Wheaton said.

"Teachers already shoulder a huge burden when it comes to educating properly, due to lack of funding, support and resources and making sure their students are taken care of emotionally. Asking us to now carry the burden of having the responsibility to kill is irreparably damaging, even if we never have to discharge our weapon."

 

[kay74]

WE should have the same gun laws Japan has:

If Japanese people want to own a gun, they must attend an all-day class, pass a written test, and achieve at least 95% accuracy during a shooting-range test. Then they have to pass a mental-health evaluation, which takes place at a hospital, and pass a background check, in which the government digs into their criminal record and interviews friends and family. They can only buy shotguns and air rifles — no handguns — and every three years they must retake the class and initial exam. ​

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

True! About 100 years later, they switched their focus 180 degrees, imo.

National Rifle Association's Change in 1970s: When the NRA Supported Gun Control

http://time.com/4431356/nra-gun-control-history/

For much of the 20th century, the NRA had lobbied and co-authored legislation that was similar to the modern legislative measures the association now characterizes as unconstitutional. But by the 1970s the NRA came to view attempts to enact gun-control laws as threats to the Second Amendment. (snip)

Today’s NRA could be summed up with words uttered by the Black Panther Party 40 years earlier: “the gun is the only thing that will free us — gain us our liberation.”
​

The NRA wasn't always a front for gun makers.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/opinion-young-nra-history_us_5a907fbee4b03b55731c2169

In 1871, the NRA was founded by William Church, a lawyer, and George Wingate, a former newspaper reporter. Wingate explained his new organization’s purpose as working to “promote and encourage rifle shooting on a scientific basis.”

 

[rosemadderlake]

Yet the NRA criticized youth and their parents for utilizing social media, the press, protests, talking to lawmakers ... ?

How the NRA uses an app to organize opposition to gun control
An extremely popular NRA smartphone app gamifies the act of writing Congress to shoot down gun control legislation

https://www.salon.com/2018/02/25/how-the-nra-uses-an-app-to-organize-opposition-to-gun-control

This too could really backfire on the NRA who has held politics hostage for decades through their grading system, money, that advances only those who support them... It is long over due to pull the curtain back on them...

I can also say Hollywood, makers of an obscene glut of extreme violent product; the shear volume & marketing of same, needs their curtain pulled back, too.

But then again, campaign finance reform is so overdue... There's no level playing field in politics. IMO.

Millions and millions of students got to find out they have a voice this week. And they are very smart, quite bipartisan, too. Change is beginning happen all because of these students in Parkland Fl. They know something first hand that most do not and their power is undeniably authentic and very compelling.

This is not lost on these future voters, lawmakers, and yes politicians, as well as those who are undeniably so impressed by their courage in the face of fear they never knew until February 14, and their wisdom in the days that followed.

And I think they also know this is about more than gun laws as they hold the truth and the mirror up to an entire country.

 

[Spellbound]

Brian Mast, a Republican, is the representative for Florida's 18th congressional district.
“I appreciate assault weapons, and I support a ban?
lost both my legs and a finger when a roadside bomb detonated beneath me — and have known more heroes than I can count who died defending others.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opin...ssault-weapons-and-i-support-a-ban/ar-BBJvaUd

I conceal and carry a 9-millimeter pistol most days because I know the threats, and I don’t want to die because I am unprepared to return fire.
I also know that I am made less safe by the threat of tactical rifles. I am confident I can eliminate an active shooter who is attacking with a pistol because the attacker would have to be close to me. But the defense my concealed 9-millimeter affords me is largely gone if the attacker is firing from beyond 40 yards, as he could easily do with the AR-15.
No firearm is evil. Guns are tools that fulfill the intent of their users, good or bad. But we’ve seen that the rifle of choice for many mass shooters is the AR-15.
The Second Amendment is unimpeachable. It guarantees the right of citizens to defend themselves. I accept, however, that it does not guarantee that every civilian can bear any and all arms.
For example, the purchase of fully automatic firearms is largely banned already, and I cannot purchase an AT-4 rocket, grenades, a Bradley fighting vehicle or an Abrams tank. I know that no single action can prevent a truly determined person from committing mass murder, and I am aware of other ways to commit mass murder, such as bombings and mass vehicular slaughter. Not being able to control everything, however, should not prevent us from doing something.
Therefore, I support the following:

 

[kittythehare]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-demanding-gun-reform/?utm_term=.99ffd1823cc4

The #VetsForGunReform movement is inclusive of those who fought America’s wars — as soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines. We were truck drivers and tank drivers, fuelers and supply specialists, pilots and linguists, medics and infantrymen. Men and women. Liberals and conservatives. We grew up across America. In big cities and small towns. We were raised by doctors and lawyers, farmers and preachers.


Gun violence takes the lives of more than 11,000 Americans every year. We lose another 20,000 to suicide involving guns. As veterans, we are all too familiar with both, unfortunately.

We are inspired and emboldened by the brave high school students who are speaking out on the need for gun-law reform. Unlike us, these students did not volunteer to go into harm’s way. Violence came to them — in their hometown, in their high school halls. And yet, in the face of pure horror, they are making their voices heard. We are proud to stand alongside them to help amplify their message.

we are uniquely qualified to offer expert testimony.

For too long, the National Rifle Association has been able to influence politicians and silence debate on common sense and necessary measures to keep our children safe. The organization that once advocated for gun safety now focuses on keeping its funders in business, and its base enthralled, by promoting the proliferation of weapons of war — like the AR-15 used last week to carry out the Parkland rampage, which left 17 dead. Two of us are former NRA members. We resigned in disgust.